Welp It's Been 2 Months And He Is Still A Menace

[JunJun1]

So I have made previous threads before and so far my two cats still have a strained relationship. My younger cat(6 months now) finally gets along with my 1 year old dog. They play fight together and he gets his need to play fight there although I think he got more than he asked for with my dog as she wont leave him alone often. Karma? LOL

However, still whenever he(my youngest) visually sees my older cat(her) he wants to play with her. He often tries to run towards but I usually intercept him by standing in his way and forcing him to find something else to do. He isn't taking my cat's hissing, swatting and often biting or otherwise NO for an answer when it comes to her. I feel like he is trying dethrone her for top spot or something in the house by challenging her.

He doesn't hiss or swat her or anything. The aggression is coming from my older cat and even then she is only aggressive when he bothers her. She is more than willing to have him as a housemate if he behaves basically.

I've tried to just letting them settle the beef but a mini "fight" broke out after my younger cat didnt care less about her obvious constant hissing, swatting and growling when he kept going for her.

For now I keep the separated A LOT and sometimes I let him out and about while my older cat just watches from the kitchen table or something but like I said once he sees her he's trying to figure out how to jump to where she is or (As she watches him)creepily watching her from a distance waiting for her to jump down(And he pretends he isn't looking). Is he bullying my older cat?

My only solution I see pretty far is to keep them apart at least until he's 1 years old and try re-introducing them then. Keep them aware but not to have interaction with each other. Any suggestions would be great here. Most people online said their cats got over it after 2 weeks but it's been 2 whole months of the same behavior.


*EDIT*

Okay to get an accurate behavioral problem. I let my youngest and oldest out together. My youngest will pounce on my oldest and my oldest will start growling, hissing, and swatting. My youngest makes a few attempts to pounce but will stop or walk away. After a good 10-15 seconds or maybe 30 he comes to back repeat the behavior.

One thing they BOTH do is when there doing that weird thing cats do where they pause and wait their tails swish really fast back and forth. And when they get into the squabble the youngest tends to just "fight" while my oldest is taking it serious. She growls and bites him and then they let go.

 

[susanm9006]

Honestly, I would stand aside and let them sort it out, mini fights and all. I think your involvement is slowing down their progress and it may become part of his game to have you break it up.

 

[JunJun1]

Honestly, I would stand aside and let them sort it out, mini fights and all. I think your involvement is slowing down their progress and it may become part of his game to have you break it up.

Like what for example? Do I just leave them in a living room one night? Do I just supervise it and break it up when fur flies?

It could really help if I understood why he is doing what he is doing but I have no clue what his intentions are with his behavior. I'm even considering consulting at a cat behaviorist at this point. His behavior isn't horrific but it's simply annoying to deal with. I'd rather not keep him locked in a room and receiving "out time" for a few hours a day when it could be as simple as him leaving my oldest cat alone.

 

[susanm9006]

He is doing it because he is a six month old kitten, full of energy and himself. He sees your older cat as a source of entertainment and a potential playmate, even if the play consists of annoying her. If your older cat has claws she has the potential to give him a wallop to the nose that would teach him her boundaries.

 

[dahli6]

He is trying to play but the older cat isn't having it. Cats don't only communicate with noise and posture. They also communicate with force, this could mean a smack to the head with claw or even being held down(restrained)with teeth and body. The older cat is how old?
It is unlikely they will have a knockdown drag out trying to rip each other's eyes out when the younger one is still in puberty. The old cat might claw or tooth the youngster to teach the kid his proper place.
It could go so far as wrestling which looks like fighting and involves teeth and claws but it is actually a good sign if they wrestle. Wrestling can look like fighting. One cat usually dominating and holding the other cat with the front paws while biting shoulder, neck(throat), or head and kicking or scratching them with the hind feet. But it is much quieter than an actual fight. Usually there will be small growls and a hiss when the bottom cat breaks free. They might break free and renew the game or break free and go off to play separately. Sometimes the wrestling turns into grooming and grooming is an ultimate sign of acceptance.

 

[JunJun1]

He is trying to play but the older cat isn't having it. Cats don't only communicate with noise and posture. They also communicate with force, this could mean a smack to the head with claw or even being held down(restrained)with teeth and body. The older cat is how old?
It is unlikely they will have a knockdown drag out trying to rip each other's eyes out when the younger one is still in puberty. The old cat might claw or tooth the youngster to teach the kid his proper place.
It could go so far as wrestling which looks like fighting and involves teeth and claws but it is actually a good sign if they wrestle. Wrestling can look like fighting. One cat usually dominating and holding the other cat with the front paws while biting shoulder, neck(throat), or head and kicking or scratching them with the hind feet. But it is much quieter than an actual fight. Usually there will be small growls and a hiss when the bottom cat breaks free. They might break free and renew the game or break free and go off to play separately. Sometimes the wrestling turns into grooming and grooming is an ultimate sign of acceptance.

The older is 4 years old. I have noticed sometimes when she bites or swats at him and then she licks him. I noticed she does with me when she tells me stop petting her or whatever it is she doesn't like me doing but that's pretty much it.I

Is it possible that my youngest is testing to my older cat?

 

[di and bob]

Of course he is testing her, he is a teenager full of you know what! Older female cats are renowned for not taking any young whippersnapper's shenanigans. I've always said the perfect cat family is two boys to wrestle and play with each other and a female to keep them in line. It's not that she hates him, she feels a responsibility to get him trained. They may never be best buddies but they will get along when he gets over all this kitten energy. He HAS to play, he has too much energy not too. She is a cat, and therefore a potential playmate, he will try forever. To her he is just annoying and needs some discipline. Don't feel bad that is the normal dynamics of an older female/younger male family. If anyone gets truly hurt, it would really be a mistake on their part, they wouldn't mean to. There will be tails swishing, growls, fur flying, and screeches. But there should not be blood drawn or one being intimidated to the point of constant hiding. Don't worry, she will eventually get him trained to leave her alone, she may hold him down and hold him still, but it will come. She needs a place she can go to defend herself against him, preferably high up. He needs a playmate or at the very least a kickeroo (found on Amazon) that you can throw when he is intent on getting to her and it will distract him. I've never seen it fail. I wouldn't let him totally annoy her, keep doing what you are doing at least for a few more weeks. I hope it makes you feel better to know that two months is not long at all in a cat's world, mine took a year to finally get along. All the luck, everything sounds perfectly normal, really!

 

[dahli6]

The older is 4 years old. I have noticed sometimes when she bites or swats at him and then she licks him. I noticed she does with me when she tells me stop petting her or whatever it is she doesn't like me doing but that's pretty much it.I

Is it possible that my youngest is testing to my older cat?

I wouldn't say testing but trying to play.
Cats do have the ability to manipulate or lie they just don't do it often. It is something they likely learn from people.
The 6 month old is trying to make friends.

 

[di and bob]

I agree with the above, too. He's truly just trying to find a playmate and she isn't having it because she is older and the Queen of the household!

 

[JunJun1]

Of course he is testing her, he is a teenager full of you know what! Older female cats are renowned for not taking any young whippersnapper's shenanigans. I've always said the perfect cat family is two boys to wrestle and play with each other and a female to keep them in line. It's not that she hates him, she feels a responsibility to get him trained. They may never be best buddies but they will get along when he gets over all this kitten energy. He HAS to play, he has too much energy not too. She is a cat, and therefore a potential playmate, he will try forever. To her he is just annoying and needs some discipline. Don't feel bad that is the normal dynamics of an older female/younger male family. If anyone gets truly hurt, it would really be a mistake on their part, they wouldn't mean to. There will be tails swishing, growls, fur flying, and screeches. But there should not be blood drawn or one being intimidated to the point of constant hiding. Don't worry, she will eventually get him trained to leave her alone, she may hold him down and hold him still, but it will come. She needs a place she can go to defend herself against him, preferably high up. He needs a playmate or at the very least a kickeroo (found on Amazon) that you can throw when he is intent on getting to her and it will distract him. I've never seen it fail. I wouldn't let him totally annoy her, keep doing what you are doing at least for a few more weeks. I hope it makes you feel better to know that two months is not long at all in a cat's world, mine took a year to finally get along. All the luck, everything sounds perfectly normal, really!

THANK YOU! You really helped calm my nerves. That's one thing about being a pet parent sometimes you really need to the assurance that things are okay or that you're doing okay especially since animals cant speak. Sometimes I have no idea what's going on LOL

I'll definitely be getting that kickeroo thing. I've also heard others use feliway?

 

[Elfilou]

His intention? I think a couple things could be at play: He could be "testing" her, and see where the boundaries are. They are still establishing their friendship and obviously they don't yet know how to communicate their needs to eachother. They need time. Another possibility is that he is bullying her to some degree because she is "acting like prey" around him. Does she act scared and nervous when he's in the room or does she stand her ground?

Do you play with her seperate from him? In every scenario it would be very good for her to release mental and physical stress before interacting with him. It also helps build confidence and it is their #1 basic need in life: to hunt, catch and kill. Her basic needs need to be met.

Adding shelves to your home, cat trees or other "escape routes" would be a great idea in this situation, because that way your older cat feels secure in the fact that she can get away from the other in no time. It makes it harder for him to get to her when she's up on a shelf somewhere, and she can freely watch him and observe his behavior.

I agree that you should stop trying to police every interaction that they have. Let them be (when you are home and not sleeping, just for now) and only break them up when you feel it's getting out of hand. Remember that they are still trying to figure out how to communicate with eachother! It needs time. You can't control how they interact, but you can make their environment more comfortable.

If you want there's a great book by Jackson Galaxy called "Catify to Satisfy" that goes into how you can optimise your environment in a way that will help your cats feel more comfortable around eachother

 

[di and bob]

Feliway is the 'scent' that cats associate with 'calm'. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't, but it wouldn't hurt. I hope I did reassure you, my cats still tussle with fur flying and screeches, and they are mother and sons! I have one boy that is the orneriest little brat, he almost died when he was a kitten so we really spoiled and sheltered him. He picks on everybody, jumps on them when they aren't looking and scares them tremendously. I just scolded him this morning, he hears me yell and runs to the door, he knows he banned for a while. But it doesn't stop him from doing it! Any cat with high energy loves those kickeroos, they bunny kick and tussle for a long time, it helps to get rid of some of taht energy. Get small furry mice and put them in a plastic bag with cat nip, hours of fun! Keep picking them up evry few days and exchanging them for cat nip infused ones in the bag, it keeps their interest up.

 

[susanm9006]

One of my cats was an obnoxious hyper kitten and pestered the two other cats, aged 4 and 13 to death. The younger cat was fine with it but the older had no patience left for kittens and the little one didn’t seem to get it. But that changed in a single day. I didn’t see what happened and the kitten had no obvious signs of injury but there must have been a very unpleasant or scary message delivered to her by the older cat because from that day until the old cat died four years later each acted as if the other did not exist. Not only did the kitten leave her alone but wouldn’t get within a few feet of her. She would actually cross the room not to have to pass by the old one.

 

[JunJun1]

His intention? I think a couple things could be at play: He could be "testing" her, and see where the boundaries are. They are still establishing their friendship and obviously they don't yet know how to communicate their needs to eachother. They need time. Another possibility is that he is bullying her to some degree because she is "acting like prey" around him. Does she act scared and nervous when he's in the room or does she stand her ground?

Do you play with her seperate from him? In every scenario it would be very good for her to release mental and physical stress before interacting with him. It also helps build confidence and it is their #1 basic need in life: to hunt, catch and kill. Her basic needs need to be met.

Adding shelves to your home, cat trees or other "escape routes" would be a great idea in this situation, because that way your older cat feels secure in the fact that she can get away from the other in no time. It makes it harder for him to get to her when she's up on a shelf somewhere, and she can freely watch him and observe his behavior.

I agree that you should stop trying to police every interaction that they have. Let them be (when you are home and not sleeping, just for now) and only break them up when you feel it's getting out of hand. Remember that they are still trying to figure out how to communicate with eachother! It needs time. You can't control how they interact, but you can make their environment more comfortable.

If you want there's a great book by Jackson Galaxy called "Catify to Satisfy" that goes into how you can optimise your environment in a way that will help your cats feel more comfortable around eachother

She is fine with him in the room with her and she always stands her ground when he pounces on her. She is however starting to instantly watch his every move now because he doesn't react to her warnings. I feel like my oldest is getting increasingly aggressive with him though.

I have a giant cat house that's pretty close to the ceiling that she used like but she prefers the kitchen table for some reason. She's never really reacted to the many cat houses, cat beds, and etc I've gotten for her.

 

[JunJun1]

One of my cats was an obnoxious hyper kitten and pestered the two other cats, aged 4 and 13 to death. The younger cat was fine with it but the older had no patience left for kittens and the little one didn’t seem to get it. But that changed in a single day. I didn’t see what happened and the kitten had no obvious signs of injury but there must have been a very unpleasant or scary message delivered to her by the older cat because from that day until the old cat died four years later each acted as if the other did not exist. Not only did the kitten leave her alone but wouldn’t get within a few feet of her. She would actually cross the room not to have to pass by the old one.

LOL! At this point I wouldn't care if she body slammed him and threw him off the roof for him to understand she doesn't want to be bothered. It sounds harsh but as long as he lives and isn't hurt I say by any means LOL!

 

[danteshuman]

For what is worth. My 2 cents? Let them duke it out a bit as long as it stays within mini fighting .... or even if she kicks his behind a bit. I prevented my older cat from kicking my younger punks behind when he was a kitten, and boy do I regret it. I have been regretting it for 10 years now. I would also make sure your kitten understands he can never 'dethrone' her in your eyes. Meanwhile please try to wear out your kitten with toys. Even giving your older cat a break from the kitten for a couple hours a day. I'm sure she would appreciate it.

 

[JunJun1]

Update since threads like this never get updated:

My oldest cat stills hates him and prefer he not come near her and if he does he doesn't stay long and my youngest is getting better at leaving her the hell alone especially since I redirected his playing towards my dog. It was nice alternative than getting another kitten and now my kitten is always eager to play with my dog whenever they are out together.

Sadly I still have to keep him separated from my oldest cat simply because I dont want a fight breaking out while I'm at work. It is only temporary until I can get them at a level of understanding. I use to aim for friendship but now the goal is tolerance.

A method I found that helps is every time they start their little spats or my youngest doesn't heed my oldest warnings. I bust out the spray bottle. Suddenly a kitten that wasn't taking no for answer was finding other things to do with his time.

Hope this helps someone out!

 

[di and bob]

It will take your youngest growing up a bit and mellowing out before they reach an 'understanding'. That may take a couple of years. Your household dynamics sound perfectly normal, older females are NOT tolerant of younger cats, Their mission is to train them to be respectful. Your kittens mission is FUN, FUN, FUN, and tease the older cat all he can. Your goal is a good one and possibly the only one, but being around cats for so many years I think it will improve in time. They will be friends and family, but never CLOSE friends! I hope your dog tolerates him more! Thank you for the update, if you ever find something taht hurries this up, please post!

 

[JunJun1]

It will take your youngest growing up a bit and mellowing out before they reach an 'understanding'. That may take a couple of years. Your household dynamics sound perfectly normal, older females are NOT tolerant of younger cats, Their mission is to train them to be respectful. Your kittens mission is FUN, FUN, FUN, and tease the older cat all he can. Your goal is a good one and possibly the only one, but being around cats for so many years I think it will improve in time. They will be friends and family, but never CLOSE friends! I hope your dog tolerates him more! Thank you for the update, if you ever find something taht hurries this up, please post!

I would definitely recommend any one with this problem to redirect the playing. My dog is amazing at intercepting their spats before I can get to them. Any squabble and my dog is ON IT trying to break it up, lol. I definitely will feel confident when the two kitties can get at a tolerance level and knowing if anything does down that they'll have a hard time continuing the battle as my 50 lb dog spooks them when she towers over them LOL.