We found a feral kitty, now what?

[hey jude]

This may be a little off topic, but I was able to get a small dose (0.4cc for her 4.2 lbs. weight) of Advantage 2 to the back of her neck last night.  Usually thru the night she becomes very active, but not so after this treatment.  Today she is lethargic and hasn't eaten or drank since the treatment.  Could this be a reaction to the Advantage 2?  I don't have any other explanations, since everything was going along well till now.  I am worried about her not eating or drinking, not even tuna today, which she was eating before along with the Earthborn dry we have her on.

Any suggestions on what, if anything I need to do?  Can this just wear off in a day or so?  I need her to start eating - we all know cats cannot go without food.  I don't want to take her to the vet as we are just starting to develop trust, and this would freak her out, especially if its not necessary and will just dissipate on its own shortly. 

Opinions?

 

[hey jude]

Well, we have transferred this little feral girl into a smaller crate (its actually for a dog) from the play pen.  At least in this crate, it has doors on two sides so I can reach her and pet her. In the play pen, she would just go to the back where I couldn't have contact with her.  She is happy to be pet and brushed.  She seems very comfortable and content, but sleeps all day, and I mean just about ALL day, then tends to be up much during the nights.  I suppose that's just because of her lifestyle before when she was alone and hunting for survival?  She doesn't have any interest in playing with anything, but she does let me pet and rub her all over her head and back, but remains in a cuddled up ball while I do this.  She seems to have recovered nicely from her spay.  There doesn't seem to be any reason for her to be so lethargic, unless she's just sleepy from being up during each night.

Should I just keep petting and talking to her?  I want to try to pick her up, but if I do the least thing towards moving her, she resists. She only weighs 4 lbs. but feels like moving a brick!   I don't want to scare her into taking steps back in her socialization.  We were doing pretty well, but seems like we are at a standstill.  She can't stay penned forever, but she doesn't seem to have any desire to get out and about.  Last night, I put pillows on the floor and slept right next to her all night.  She meowed at me about 3am, and when I looked at her, I was about a foot from her, she was standing right at the pen door looking right at me.  When I talked to her and put my finger into the cage, she put her paw up like she wanted to play.  The she tried to play bite my finger. I took it away since I don't want her to think fingers are for biting, but that was the very first time in 11 days of having her that she showed any sign of curiosity.  I then put a feather near her instead, but she had no interest.

Am I expecting too much too soon?  Its so hard when I never had to work at making a kitty like me before!

Any advice is greatly appreciated - this is my first feral.

Judy

 

[vball91]

Has she recovered from the Advantage? Drinking and eating normally again? This is not an uncommon reaction to flea meds.

I would keep doing what you are doing. I wouldn't try to pick her up yet. Some good reading for you would be LDG's account of bringing Pawley indoors. She has done this many times, and there's some great information there:
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270195/pawley-and-all-of-us-could-use-your-vibes

 

[tdiving]

Hi,

I can tell you that from our experience with our two feral kittens---the kittens dictate the situation--any progress you make will be at their speed.

After having them for nearly 4 months,doting on them,giving them enough toys to fill a toy shop and allowing them total freedom to do what they wish,they are finally allowing Tony to

stroke them,and we think this is mainly because he feeds them---but Kat is lagging behind and may be allowed a casual touch now and then.

But absolutely no picking up at this stage.

If you can,put your own feelings ,frustrations aside---offer the kitten love and attention and then be there when she is ready to accept.---be rest assured,she will accept.

Trying to push anything faster than she accepts will only be inviting steps backwards.

Hang in there--you will have a wonderful pet and we have now with our 2 kittens.

Tony and Kat

 

[hey jude]

Yes, she has recovered from the Advantage 2.  I think being frail, even though the dose was right, she is pretty bony, and maybe couldn't tolerate the med.  She's eating, drinking, and this morning my husband had her actually playing with him and a mouse.  She seems to be taking to him, even though I am the one that feeds, but then I am the one that is doing the main socialization, so maybe she may see me as the teacher, and him as a playmate.  I won't try to pick her up anymore.  I haven't pushed that issue, but when I do its like her little 4 lbs. is glued to the blanket.  Its amazing the strength of such a tiny creature.  Thanks for all the advice. 

After a petting or playing session, we give her a teaspoon of tuna, which she acts like she doesn't care about, but then decides its worth coming out of her corner and walking over to the other side of the pen, and gobbles it up.  Hopefully, she will in time associate us with good tuna!  So far, she has no interest in treats of any kind, so I am trying to use the tuna sparingly as my leverage.  I know its not good for her, but she just gets a tiny bit.

We will be keeping her until next Monday (day after Easter), at that point her new mommy and daddy will be taking her, since we will be going on vacation.  We will transport her right in the pen with a blanket over the outside of the pen to try to keep the trauma down.  But she will be seeing new faces and a new venue. I'm hoping she will be adjusted a little bit more by then and will be able to handle it.  If not, these new folks will be very loving for her.  I offered to take her back when we return after 11 days away and work with her some more, if for some reason it doesn't work out.  But I think it will.  Fingers crossed.  So far, this little girl is very sweet, as long as we go at her pace, not ours.

 

[msaimee]

Wow, she is sooo cute, I don't know how you could give her up. She is still young enough to be fully socialized in time, though it may take several months before she's completely at ease in your home or someone else's home. You (or whoever adopts her) might want to consider letting her out of her pen and using a baby gate to separate her room from the other cats. This will allow the cats to get to know each other with more ease. My one feral jumped the baby gate within the week and took over the house, lol. The other feral I later took in  was in her room with the gate for over a month. Cats get lonely, so she might enjoy hearing and seeing the other household members but still within the security of her room. Also, it takes a while for some cats to recover from major surgery (which a hysterectomy is) and the vaccines and other medicines, especially if they are small and malnourished. She likely does not feel that great right now. She is also dealing with a lot of change! I think that a feral cat being brought inside with strange cats and humans is akin to a human being kidnapped and placed on a strange planet. She has so much to adjust to!

Feral cats, even when socialized, do not always become cuddly lap cats. If things don't work out with her new owners, you should ask yourself how important this is to you. My female feral that I took in when she was 10 months old sometimes allows me to pet her and sometimes will still swipe at me. She sleeps on the bed near me but will likely never be a lap cat. However, she's sooooo cute and I love her so much that it really doesn't matter to me. I have 3 other cats inside who are very affectionate so I can accept her on her own terms for who she is without demanding that she change.

 

[hey jude]

Well, now we have another dilemma. Kinda requires a long explanation, but I'll try to be concise.

While in pursuit of trapping little Suzy, our feral, we caught another full grown cat in our trap one night (prior to catching Suzy).  We brought her in (a beautiful tortie) and my friend Margaret, who was waiting to adopt the elusive little Suzie when we could catch her, decided she would also take this first kitty.  We were happy to have her go to a good home, as this lady and her husband are loving cat people and had lost their cat of many years recently.  After a vet visit, turns out the tortie, whom they decided to name J.J., had a chip in her, and after finding the owners, the owner decided to give her away to them (how can someone do that?)  Apparently, the previous owners were moving far away to a new house, the poor cat freaked out with all the commotion and got out on moving day, and they never saw her again.  They just moved and left her behind!  That was in November, so this poor cat, after being a house cat for 5 years, was out on her own in our brutal arctic winter from Nov. to a few weeks ago, when we trapped her by accident, . 

Meantime, we are in the process of socializing little Suzy in baby steps so she can hopefully go to them a semi-nice kitty. I just found out this morning that  Margaret took J.J. in for declawing yesterday.  She had sent me a text about J.J. going in for her "manicure", but I interpreted that to mean nail trim.  I am just sick about turning over this poor cat only to have her knuckles sliced off!  j.J. is currently still at the vets and has a fentanyl patch on for 3 days - that is a Class 2 narcotic, akin to heroin.  Can you tell me that cat is not in a hell of a lot of pain right now?  Now they want to adopt this little sweet kitty that we have, and my husband says no way will they do that to Suzy.  He wants me to make it clear that if it doesn't work out, she comes back to us BEFORE any "manicure".

The question is:  Do we have the right to tell someone how to deal with their cat if we hand her over?  There's no money exchange or legal adoption papers to sign, just an agreement between friends.  I felt they were kind-hearted cat lovers until this.  She said J.J. had started to scratch on some wood posts in their stairway.  But they've only had her less than 2 weeks - did they even TRY to discourage her?  Or give her alternate ways like a SCRATCHING POST? I am finding out this is standard practice in their family, and her daughter-in-law is a veterinarian!   I've had 9 long-term cats spanning 35 years or more, and not one single cat has ever destroyed anything in our home.  One or two squirts with a water bottle, and then picked up and taken to the appropriate scratching post has worked for me every time. 

I need opinions on what are my options.  We already have 3 cats, and they all get along great, all neutered males, and I really don't want to upset their applecart, but my husband is adamant, that they will not declaw this little girl - he will keep her before that happens, and I agree with him.

Help...

Judy

 

[vball91]

Oh no. Poor J.J.

  I think too many people in the US think declawing is standard for indoor kitties.

 It is slowly changing, but many people just do not educate themselves as to what declawing really involves. Even the name is misleading. It should be called amputation. Then let's see how many people think it's a good idea.

Anyway, it may be worthwhile to have a discussion with them. Explain why you are against declawing and that you and your husband would not want Suzy to be declawed. You could come up with an arrangement where they would return Suzy to you if they couldn't live with a cat with claws. You could educate them as to training methods, providing suitable scratching services, use of Soft Paws/Claws, etc. I would also explain the behavioral and physiological consequences of declawing. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/declawing-post-surgery-care-and-complications  

 

[msaimee]

You could try to make an agreement with Margaret that she will not declaw Suzy and will return her if she cannot handle her scratching--but there's no way you could enforce this agreement. The truth is that all cats occasionally scratch and destroy things, especially when they are young and feral and haven't been trained to use scratching posts. Some cats do learn to use only scratching posts, but others continue to scratch the sides of a couch or wherever they please. The young male feral I brought inside last summer destroyed my bedroom curtains, the bottom of my box spring in my bed, and broke a computer keyboard. He's older now and no longer does these destructive things, but it took a while to train him. Even if Margaret agrees to return Suzy to you instead of declawing him, Suzy will go through the difficulty of leaving your home, adjusting to a new one, and then having to leave that one as well. Can I ask why you don't just keep Suzy? If she gets along with your husband and can co-exist with your other cats and is adjusting to your home, then why not give her a chance? Even if she doesn't evolve into the lap cat you wish she were, she can bring you a great deal of happiness, and will be a very loyal companion to you. I have 4 indoor cats and an outdoor feral, and my outdoor feral is my favorite cat who is closest to my heart even though he won't allow me to touch him. There's a bond between us that transcends my need to physically express affection. Maybe you could find this bond with Suzy, too?

 

[hey jude]

Thanks for the advice, problem is solved. We are keeping Suzy, and we have changed her name to "Dusty" which is what I wanted to call her in the beginning because she is a dusty grey and white tuxedo/tabby cat.  I very politely told my friend that my husband and I didn't believe declawing was right and that we could not let them have another kitty to perhaps suffer the same fate.  She was very matter of fact about it too, like she was sending her for a nail trim, but she said she understood my position, and respected it.  I wish I could say the same to her.  I agree with you, if we called it what it actually was, amputation, or slicing off their paws at the knuckles, maybe some would not be so quick to maim their pets.

I just am livid that they would do such a thing after barely having J.J.  I feel like I sentenced that poor kitty to a horrible painful surgery.  At least we can save Dusty from the same thing, and I am so happy we found out in the nick of time.

Here's J.J. BEFORE declawing, sitting on my lap cuddling, 1 day after trapping her and being on her own for 5 months or harsh winter, abandoned by her owners, such a very sweet and lovable girl...

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• hey jude
• Apr 15, 2014

    

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• hey jude
• Apr 15, 2014

Here's little Dusty, 4 lbs ,a work in progress.

  

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• hey jude
• Apr 15, 2014

 

[msaimee]

I am so happy for Dusty that she has a home with you now! I also want to say that even though JJ went through the awful experience of getting declawed that he's still so much better off being an indoor cat who is being cared for. You likely saved his life by trapping him and finding him a home. I hope you can feel good about that. You have already invested so much in Dusty that she truly belongs to you

 

[vball91]

I am so glad to hear that you and your husband are keeping Dusty. She is one lucky kitty!

 

[hey jude]

Thanks for the advice, problem is solved. We are keeping Suzy, and we have changed her name to "Dusty" which is what I wanted to call her in the beginning because she is a dusty grey and white tuxedo/tabby cat.  I very politely told my friend that my husband and I didn't believe declawing was right and that we could not let them have another kitty to perhaps suffer the same fate.  She was very matter of fact about it too, like she was sending her for a nail trim, but she said she understood my position, and respected it.  I wish I could say the same to her.  I agree with you, if we called it what it actually was, amputation, or slicing off their paws at the knuckles, maybe some would not be so quick to maim their pets.

I just am livid that they would do such a thing after barely having J.J.  I feel like I sentenced that poor kitty to a horrible painful surgery.  At least we can save Dusty from the same thing, and I am so happy we found out in the nick of time. Here's little Dusty, 4 lbs,

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• hey jude
• Apr 15, 2014

 

[hey jude]

My problem now is how will she interact with my other 3 cats?  We put up a door wall screen, duct taped it to the casing around the door so it swings back and forth like a regular screen door.  That way instead of being enclosed in a room, we can have Dusty's view open to see the comings and goings of our daily routine, yet my other 3cats can't bother her. Since she hasn't had a proper wellness checkup yet, we don't want to risk something such as ear mites to my other boys.  Dusty has been spayed, had all initial vaccines including rabies, and tested negative for FIV/FeLu, received deworming med,.  But being wild and so scared, we didn't want to further traumatize her with a vet visit yet, so keeping a distance from our other cats.

The problem is when she sees one of our cats standing at the screened door, even though they are being really very sweet standing there, and even though she is a ways away, she starts meowing and moves towards them a bit in her pen. I don't know if its just interest, or aggression.  Can anyone interpret this as either being scared or upset by them, or is it aggression towards them?  I don't know if keeping her will be a good thing or a really bad idea!

 

[di and bob]

Watch for signs such as tail twitching, hair standing up, eyes dilating, or ears laid back, these are all sins of aggression or fear.Meowing and moving forward sounds like curiosity. A door between them makes a big difference, so don't let your guard down, they all feel safe that way.I would feed them all close together on both sides of the door, this gives them good feelings about each other. It sounds like you are off to a good start and doing everything right, it will take a lot of patience and time to get everyone together. You'll find a lot of helpful advise on this site, many people have been through the same thing. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[hey jude]

Thanks, it does seem more like curiosity.  Her tail was upright and curled at the end, but no outwardly aggressive clues, no twitching tail.  Ears were upright, just meowing and very interested.

 

[msaimee]

If her tail is upright, this is a good sign. If cats are threatened or upset, they generally hiss and growl at each other, not meow. Since she is so young, there's a good chance that at least one of your older cats will "adopt" her and be her buddy. I think it's a great idea to allow them to start to interact, and they will already be familiar with her scent from her having been inside your house, so she is not totally new to them. 

 

[hey jude]

Well, here's an update.  We have changed her name AGAIN, once and for all she will be known to all as "Gracie", as it means "a gift from God".  And that she is. My husband thought Dusty was more a guy's name.  She is just so sweet, and coming along really well.  I was even able to get drops into both ears for mites this morning.  I gave her some tuna for distraction.  She wasn't happy about the first ear but then went back to the tuna so I could surprise the other ear.  Now that she's on to me, not sure if I can do this again!

Here's my dilemma at this point:  We were able to get her spayed, all first immunizations, and nails trimmed while under.  But a week later when we tried to take her back to the spay clinic, all hell broke loose, and the vet, who had no bedside manner whatsoever, scared the bejesus out of her when she flipped off the top of her carrier.  Up until then, Gracie had been very calm, no meowing at all.  But when the top came off ,she shot out of the carrier, and proceeded to climb the walls like the first day we had her inside our house.  They had to get a net to catch her and get her into the carrier.  They made us leave the room to do this.  So we took a step back that day.  But now she's so much sweeter.  We are petting her all over, brushing her, she rolls belly-up and plays with toys, eats tuna off the spoon and my fingers,  all things she did not do until this week.  If she reacts so violently to a vet, how can I get Rx medications, such as Revolution or Advantage Multi for mites, or ear medications?  Right now, I am using an antibiobic/tick medication that we got for our last adopted cat, Casey when he was little. I tried to order Advantage Multi off a website, but when they called my vet for the prescription, he refused because he had not seen her yet, even though we've been going to them for 20 years.  I can't take her to my vet - they don't treat ferals, even though she is fairly tame by now.  But don't want to repeat her bad clinic experience.  And the clinic that did her spay does not do wellness checkups.  Does anyone have the same problem when these kitties need medical attention and if so, how do we get them the help they need?

 

[ondine]

I have a former feral we literally have to trap to get to the vet.  Once he is in the carrier, I make sure I stay with him, no matter what the vet says.  I am lucky enough to have a vet that understands that even tame cats can react wildly when they are under stress.  And a vet visit is certainly stressful!

Ask around and see if you can find a vet that understands feral behavior.  A cat-only practice would be ideal.  As you have learned, never just flip the carrier top off.  Remove it slowly and have a blanket or towel ready to cover the top when the vet or vet tech does not have hands on the cat.

visits are always a challenge and even my cat - inside and "tame" for six years now still reacts like a roaring lion when he knows its his turn to go!

You have done an amazing job with this cat.  Keep up the good work!

 

[datagrrl]

I never thought of asking my vet if they treat ferals. I am getting the cats first shots and spay through a clinic that does a lot of TNR stuff, but I assumed after that we would just go to my vet. I will have to look into that.