want to feed more raw, not sure of best way to go

[lisamarie12]

so I guess if I'm feeding a whole carcass, I don't have to worry about ratios & supplements. You can buy that stuff, I don't know why people don't. everyone is mixing this & that, to me it's a lot easier to just buy the whole animal, done deal.

Looks like you can get chicken, rabbit, quail, mouse & guinea pig. All the things a cat would normally eat.

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chickenbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_rabbit_fur_and_all_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_quail_1_lb_fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_mouse_1_lb__fine_ground

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_cavies_1_lb_fine_ground

I'm buying HT's ground mouse and ground quail for my cats and I'll be supplementing with vit B, vit E, taurine and fish oil.

As KiratheCat astutely mentioned, once the whole prey goes through the grinding process, nutrients are lost, hence, I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

[missmimz]

 
so what's wrong or what would happen if a cat ate          https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chickenbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground       without supplementation? I thought the bones offset the meat part. I always thought it was good to feed bones, practically all the natural websites say to do it. Like in RC, they use eggshell to offset the meat portion. Why not use natural bone?

It would probably be cheaper to buy boneless meat from the grocery store & ask the meat guy to grind it for you, so I guess the EZ Complete would be added to that.

Small Batch doesn't sell boneless meats, I think EZ Complete is only for boneless meats.

Long term they'd developed some malnutrition or medical issues related to it. Those grinds are VERY high in bone, over 20% so you have to dilute. Rad Cat adds other vitamins and minerals not just eggshell calcium to make it a complete meal. HT doesn't, it's just meat/bones/organs, so you have to supplement to make it balanced. Just having some organs and bones doesn't make it a complete meal. 

Yes EZ is only for boneless, but alnutrin has a mix for meat a bone, which is what you would use with the chicken you linked above. 

 

[msserena]

I actually like the EZ Complete ingredients better than the Alnutrin & the others I've found.

I was looking at just the chicken section on the HT website & a nice blend to me would be the ground feet, organs & chicken breasts. There would be no bone at all. Then if I added the EZC, wouldn't that make it a complete meal?

 

[msserena]

wait a minute, I'm such a nerd, I just realized the store sells ground, turkey, beef, buffalo & rabbit. I guess I could buy these & then add the supplement & whala, done deal. right???

 

[missmimz]

 
wait a minute, I'm such a nerd, I just realized the store sells ground, turkey, beef, buffalo & rabbit. I guess I could buy these & then add the supplement & whala, done deal. right???

Sure, as long as its meat only and no organs or bone. EZ is a better supplement than alnutrin, but its less flexible as you can only use boneless meat. 

 
I actually like the EZ Complete ingredients better than the Alnutrin & the others I've found.

I was looking at just the chicken section on the HT website & a nice blend to me would be the ground feet, organs & chicken breasts. There would be no bone at all. Then if I added the EZC, wouldn't that make it a complete meal?

Feet have bone, no feet or organs if you want to use EZ boneless meat only, NO organs or bone. 

 

[msserena]

https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chicken_feet_1_lb      Chicken feet – Feet are cartilage.

http://www.foodfurlife.com/faq--contact.html      You can use organ meats, just not secreting organs

 

[missmimz]

 
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_chicken_feet_1_lb      Chicken feet – Feet are cartilage.

http://www.foodfurlife.com/faq--contact.html      You can use organ meats, just not secreting organs

HT's organ mix has secreting organs, so you'd need to buy separately if that's what you're looking for. Sure you could add heart of gizzards. 

You'd need to ask Food Fur Life about using ground chicken feet with EZ. While they may be cartilage they are high in phos and calcium (like bone), which may in turn give your cats too much calcium and cause constipation. Personally I wouldn't add either. I'd stick with plain ground meat. 

 

[LTS3]

All feet have bones. You can't walk on just floppy cartilage and muscle

Hare Today probably removes the bones from the chicken feet and grinds up the cartilage and muscles.

 

[missmimz]

 
All feet have bones. You can't walk on just floppy cartilage and muscle

Hare Today probably removes the bones from the chicken feet and grinds up the cartilage and muscles.

This is what I was thinking! But I mean, I'm not a vet so I'm not totally up to date on chicken anatomy 

 Although I do have chickens so I mean, their feet look like they have bones 

 

[LTS3]

My Mom just poached an entire chicken (head to feet) today. She removed the cooked feet while she was cutting up the cooked carcass and there was definitely bones in them. Dad likes to gnaw on the chicken feet and it's basically all bones with not much of anythng else.

Spoiler: Warning: Chicken foot bones

mystery12b.jpg

• LTS3
• Sep 11, 2016

 

[msserena]

wait a minute - your dad chews on chicken feet bones???

 

[LTS3]

 
wait a minute - your dad chews on chicken feet bones???

Yes

In some cultures chicken feet are considered edible and are eaten, well sucked on really since you can't eat bones. The "phoenix claws" dish in Chinese dim sum is one example.

BTW, the picture in my post was taken off Google. It is not the remains of a chicken foot that my Dad gnawed on.

This is getting off the subject of raw pet food

 

[msserena]

Well I went to the pet store & got 2 samples of SC, rabbit & chicken. 1 cat ate them both.

Today I bought a small tub of every flavor of RC, I usually mix them all up, but I put a little on individual plates to see which cat likes what, 1 ate every flavor.

 

[missmimz]

 
Well I went to the pet store & got 2 samples of SC, rabbit & chicken. 1 cat ate them both.

Today I bought a small tub of every flavor of RC, I usually mix them all up, but I put a little on individual plates to see which cat likes what, 1 ate every flavor.

That's excellent! You could definetly feed a rotation of RC and S&C, if you wanted. S&C isn't bad food by any means, it's just a bit boney so better in rotation rather than exclusively.

 

[msserena]

I'm a little confused, I thought dry matter numbers could be from any product - raw, freeze dried, canned, kibble.

I've found out this info from all sorts of companies & now this one company is telling me they don't have those kinds of numbers because they use fresh raw meats & vegetables.

 

[missmimz]

 
I'm a little confused, I thought dry matter numbers could be from any product - raw, freeze dried, canned, kibble.

I've found out this info from all sorts of companies & now this one company is telling me they don't have those kinds of numbers because they use fresh raw meats & vegetables.

DMB is easy to figure just use this calc http://fnae.org/dmb.html

 

[msserena]

it's not a matter of calculating it, I made my own calculator in excel anyway, the numbers straight from the company should be most accurate. I've made calculations & then get the dm from the company & they're off. GA are not good numbers to start out with.

I just thought it was really weird what they said

 

[missmimz]

 
it's not a matter of calculating it, I made my own calculator in excel anyway, the numbers straight from the company should be most accurate. I've made calculations & then get the dm from the company & they're off. GA are not good numbers to start out with.

I just thought it was really weird what they said

If they're not required to provide you the information then they're not going to. I don't put that much effort into commerial companies anyway. Rad Cat is the best you can do commerial wise, everything after that is sort of meh, so trying to evaluate every detail isn't really worth it. You accept that if you feed commerial you compromise and may have things you don't want in the food or higher phos/bone. 

 

[msserena]

Since I feed mostly canned, that is one of the first things that I learned from Dr Pierson, call companies & ask what the DM numbers are. For the most part, I've gotten them. I thought that no matter what the food, get them. That's why I asked the raw/freeze dried people yesterday. Even on other websites they talk about protein & fat in a dmb format & it's not just canned food they're talking about.