Violent cat behavior asking for play

[ulysses]

Hello, this is my first post.

I have a problem with my 1.5 year old Cupp, my first cat, who have been pretty well behaved until recently.

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I started playing with him in the evening more often recently because I thought he might be lonely and bored in a studio/1br apartment without much environmental enrichment - and I didn't know that was going to lead to the problem.

These days he comes to me every evening, several times in the evening, and starting to bite and claw my feet, legs, shoulders, and back. It really hurts especially because I was too busy to clip his nails this month. Then when I give him attention, he immediately runs to the drawer holding his toys and start clawing at the drawer, standing on his rear feet and looking at me, until I bring the toy out and play with him.

What is more damning is that he does that several times a day, even when I play with him for at least 15 mins each time until he's panting like a dog. He seems to recover within 30 minutes and comes back with all the clawing and biting. 15 minute play ensues. Rinse and repeat, several times in a row in the evening. That's pretty disruptive to my schedule, let alone that it really hurts.

I know I shouldn't give in to him or it becomes a vicious cycle, but I tried picking him up and dropping him across the apartment and/or ignoring him. He's too persistent and vicious. I don't wanna lock him out of the living room whenever that happens.

I couldn't find online resources for dealing with cats who violently asks for play all the time. Do you have any suggestions to stop this / the types of environment enrichment that would stop him from doing this?

Thank you.

 

[margd]

Wow, that's really pushy!   No good deed goes unpunished, eh?  Here you tried to make him happy and end up getting bitten!   Unfortunately, Cupp has learned that by biting you, he can get his way, so it's time for him to unlearn that lesson.  When he does it, either you leave the room or have him leave the room.  It will take awhile but he should eventually get the message.  You can't give in, not even once.  Instead, play with him when he isn't biting to demand it.  It should help if you set up a scheduled play time or two for him so he eventually learns that play time comes at a certain time of the day.  Below are two articles that might help.

https://statich.thecatsite.com/7/77/300x300px-LS-77b41e79_B00314T1Q6-31EqjYFIVYL.jpeg

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/playing-with-your-cat-ten-things-every-cat-owner-needs-to-know

Another thing you might try is getting him an interactive toy or two that doesn't demand your involvement.  Since you will be ignoring his demands to play for awhile, he needs things he can play with on his own.

The Bergan Turbo scratcher toy is a big hit with my cats:

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• margd
• Mar 2, 2016

Another is the Ripple Rug:  

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• margd
• Feb 28, 2016

Check out our toy review section for more ideas:  http://www.thecatsite.com/products/category/cat-toys

There are also a lot of battery run toys where your involvement consists of turning it on and double checking in case it tips over or gets stuck.

Here's one we just got that is a big favorite:  Moody Pet Fling-Ama-String:  

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• margd
• Mar 7, 2016

We also have one that is apparently no longer available but the concept is good if you can locate a similar toy:  Ware Manufacturing Remote Control Action Toy:

http://www.thecatsite.com/products/ware-manufacturing-remote-control-action-toy

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• margd
• Mar 9, 2016

Good luck!  I hope you get this under control quickly.   

 

[Caspers Human]

Do you WANT to tussle and play with your cat with bare hands?

It's okay with me if you do but, if so, you've got to expect to get scratched and bitten.

You wouldn't play rugby without expecting to come home with bruises.

You shouldn't play rough house with a cat unless you expect to get scratched up.

It's normal for a cat to play like that.  Cats don't have hands like humans do.  A cat plays with his mouth and claws the same way human children play with their hands.

Remember!  Five out of the six ends of a cat are pointy!

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• Caspers Human
• Mar 10, 2016

Don't teach your cat that's it's okay to play rough house like that unless you are willing to accept the consequences.

 

[ulysses]

Margd, thank you. I immediately bought a couple of them, and locked him outside living room for both attempt of his last night. I hope that will teach him some lesson in the meanwhile.

 

[ulysses]

Caspers Human, I don't think you quite understood my problem. I had four fish rod toys, and recently added three more in total(two bird, two string+wrapper, one squirrel tail, one rope, one mouse). Apparently not knowing how to count past three, my cat is so fascinated by "the stash of infinite toys" he wants to play all the times, and thinks jumping on my back with all four claws is an acceptable way to say "please". (I lost a couple big chunks of flesh on my back again last night.)

 

[Caspers Human]

Understood...  I think I was making a leap of logic.  My bad.

When our cat, Casper, wants something he will use "Jedi Mind Tricks." 

He'll go to the thing he wants and stare at it for a minute then he'll stare at me.

It seems as if he is saying, "You WANT to give me some kitty treats," or "You WILL pick up that laser toy."

Casper's mind tricks are about 95% effective on his humans. 

One thing Casper does not do very much is tussle with humans.  He will do it occasionally but only for a minute and not very often, at that.  Few and far between.  If you are getting his food, he will circle your feet and rub himself on you but he will not scratch and bite.  Not even playfully.

It sounds, to me, like you've got a really smart cat! 

Somehow, he figured out that he can manipulate you by "attacking" you.  I'm sure that he thinks he's being playful when he "attacks."

Personally, I don't mind these kinds of "attacks."  It's all a part of having a cat.

But, at the same time, I have my limits.  Whether it be rough housing with hands, with dangly toys or sudden "sneak attacks," there are times and places for everything.  The cat's got to learn when, where and how it is appropriate to rough house with humans... AND... The human has to learn when, where and how it is appropriate to rough house with the cat.

It's all about two-way communication but the problem is that cats can't talk.  How do you communicate with a cat that can't talk?

This is how I do it...  This is what works for me.

It's your right to do things your way and decide what works for you.

When I am playing rough house with the cat and he scratches or bites too hard for me, I say "Ouch!" and I stop playing for a minute.  We play again but, if he gets too rough I say "Ouch!" again.  When we get to "three strikes" play time is over.  Literally just get up and walk away.

Also, remember that the cat has the exact same right to decide when play time is over, too.  If he stops playing or tries to run away, let him.  That's how he tells you that you're playing too rough or when he's tired of playing.

When I was a kid, we used to teach our dogs to offer a paw like "shake hands" as the signal when they were done playing.

I have yet to teach a cat to do that and I don't expect that I ever will... but it would be great if it were possible. 

Anyhow... Whatever modus operandi you choose, you need to set limits with the cat and communicate those limits in a way that the cat understands.  (And the cat sets his limits with you.)

For example, if the cat goes to the toy chest and meows, he gets to play.  If the cat attacks and claws you, he doesn't get to play.  Tell him "Ouch!" and walk away and stick to your guns.

Think of him as having the mentality of a two-year-old kid who wants to sneak into the cookie jar.  Calculate your response in terms of Operant Conditioning.  If he behaves in a way that you like, he gets a reward.  (Playtime.)  If he behaves in a way that you don't like, he gets no reward.  (Ignored.)  If you treat him in a consistent manner with rewards and non-rewards, he will eventually get the message.

He sounds like a really smart cat so, hopefully, he will figure things out quickly.  You've just got to stay two steps ahead of him.

(IMHO: The only time you should punish a cat is when he's being violent or is in danger.  Even then, you need to consider your actions and how the cat will understand what you are doing.  Without going into a lot of detail, punishment should be the last resort.)

This is hard to explain via the Internet so that's why it seemed like I was using that leap of logic before.  I hope I am explaining it better, this time, in a way that people can understand.  The reason why I used that logical leap was because it seemed to me like your cat thought he was getting some kind of reward for "attacking" you, even if he thought he was only being playful, he still got some kind of reward for doing it.

I think that the best way to deal with your situation is to use "Reward vs. Non-reward" and stick to your guns.

 

[ulysses]

Hopefully he will learn very fast. He's probably a cat equivalent of genius. I taught him to stand / high-five / low-five / jump / "come sit down over here where I'm pointing" all within in two weeks. No sweat, he got the basics of everything in 5 tries max, 3 in average. I'm yet to teach him how to fetch though. 

 

[Caspers Human]

He sounds like one hell of a smart cat! 

It sounds like you've got a really awesome cat buddy!

Whatever method you used to teach him to do all those things, use the same way to "un-teach" him the things you don't want him to do.  The thing is that he's probably so smart that he's learned how to "teach" YOU to do the things he wants!  So the real trick, I think, is going to be for you to stay two steps ahead of him.

From the looks of things, you've got a really great rapport going with your cat.  Just keep that trend going, only readjust your strategies a bit.  I think that the two of you communicate well enough, already, that it won't be a problem.  Just a bit of a change up in the routine.

I have had two cats that liked to play fetch.  They both played fetch better than any dog I ever had.

I think the difference between the way dogs and cats play fetch is "possession" versus "activity."

With a dog, it's all about the ball.  He who is in possession of the ball is the one who is in charge.  With a cat, it's all about the activity of chasing the ball.  A cat wants to pounce and "kill" things.  If the cat wants to pounce on the ball and kill it again, he knows that he has to bring it back to you so that you can throw it.  Those differences in motivation dictate the way a cat or a dog plays fetch.

If you want to teach your cat to play fetch, I suggest that you teach him that, if he brings the ball (or cat toy) back to you, you will throw it again so that he can chase it and pounce on it again.

I think your cat is so smart that he will pick up on it really quickly but don't be surprised if he starts bringing his fetch-toy and dropping it by your feet at all-hours of the night! 

 

 

[ulysses]

He just jumped on my back and ripped the back of my shirt squarely. That's one less shirts for me. 

 I think the punctures from yesterday are slightly inflamed despite the ointment...

 

[Caspers Human]

Cat's got some stones! Doesn't he?

 

[rileys mom]

I also have a almost five month old kitten who when I return home he attacks me. The worst thing is that when he is attacking my hands and arms he closes his eyes and kicks his feet on me for like three minutes and then he is fine. My fiance comes home he jumps on his lap no hitting but for me it's all teeth and claw. I have toys for him and play with him. He just doesn't show me affection until after the attacks! Any help!!!!!!!

 

[arcticcat907]

the claw/biting to you seems to be to envoke a response. Remember pavlov and the bell with the dogs? He taught the dogs the sound of a bell meant food. your cat has learned that a nip or a scratch means attention and play. so there's problem one. problem 2 is your cat is a high energy cat, he needs to be stimulated more than 15 minutes at a time. it'll change as he gets older. but for now, he needs things he can do while you're away and play with, and when you get home expect an hour every night of solid play.

 

[Caspers Human]

Think of your cat as if he was a six year old kid.

Six year olds love to run and play with their parents.  That's just the way kids are.

Your five month old kitten is at about the same level of maturity as a six year old kid.

Running, playing, scratching and biting is the way a kitten of that age normally plays.  To him, that's what it is to play.  There's nothing wrong with that in the cat's mind.  He's behaving normally.

How would you teach a rambunctious six year old kid to stop playing rough at inappropriate times?

Tell him, "No."

Do the same thing with the cat.  When he plays too rough, say, "No" and stop playing with him, momentarily.

If he does it a second time, say "No" again and stop playing for a short time.

If the cat does it a third time...  That's "three strikes."  Stop playing with the cat COMPLETELY and ignore him.

Do this consistently, every time.  Whenever the cat plays above the "Rough House Level" that you are comfortable with, put him on "strike one" and, if he gets to "strike three", play time is over.

Cats work on Operant Conditioning:  Behavior begets a reaction which ,in turn, begets a change in behavior.

This is different than the "Stimulus/Response" system of Classical Conditioning that dogs often learn by.

Classical Conditioning is a "straight-line"...  Stimulus begets a response from the subject.

Operant Conditioning is an endless loop...  Behavior >> Response >> Behavior >> Response, etc., etc....

What you are doing is conditioning your cat to play in the manner that you want him to.

In one case, you are using NEGATIVE response to condition behavior...  When the cat doesn't behave the way you want, he doesn't get to play.

In another case, you will use POSITIVE response to condition behavior... When the cat DOES behave the way you want, he DOES get to play.

BTW: Operant Conditioning works on humans, too!