Very frustrated with raw food! Need inspiration

[konuku]

I am not sure if I can blame raw food, but I am wondering if it is worth it. I have been trying to get my two 7-month ragdoll kittens to eat homemade raw food for the past month. The first attempt was chicken. It seemed to go well, until the girl began throwing up about 10 days into it. She was able to eat almost exclusively raw,  though her brother was quite a bit behind her and could only eat about 20% blended into his food, but no vomiting.

Someone on the forum suggested I try another protein, so I did rabbit. Mimi refused to have it  at 100% after she got sick on the raw chicken, so I did around 1/3, then moved upto 1/2 and then 2/3rds or so. They both got to the stage where they were eating 75% raw and 25% canned with some slight hesitation but they would. But again, around 10 days into it, they both started getting sick and now neither of them will touch any raw now - even at smaller proportions.

This morning, for example, I tried to blend in just a tiny bit into a food that Rodolfo (the boy kitty likes). That came back up within a few minutes. They have even rejected some of the canned food that they love, meaning that I now virtually have very little food they will eat. 

Before raw, I must have gone through at least 8 different brands of canned foods - lot of different proteins/flavors - to find which canned food they liked. It was an expensive process since they rejected most of them. So, I thought I had found what ticked their boxes (though the boy has become far more picky than his sister). But I have read and witnessed myself how cats will change what they like in a blink of an eye. Though considering I have only had them for 2 1/2 months, it is a bit tiring. I understand that they might get bored after a year or two, but every few weeks? I am constantly throwing out untouched food.

I really don't know what to do.

Their getting sick might not even be connected to raw food, but it is a bit strange that around the 10-14 day mark, they started getting vomiting for a couple of days in a row. Coincidence? Maybe. But I have thrown out SO much good food (the most expensive canned food too) that I really at my wits end. Plus, making raw food is seriously time consuming. I live in Switzerland and I only know of one commercial raw food brand for cats which is VERY expensive and hard to get - so not an option really. I even ordered a posh meat grinder that arrived literally 20 minutes ago because doing it by my hand cranked grinder was ruining my kitchen work table. How ironic.

They have wonderful fur and seem really healthy once they have been eating raw, but I: 1) always feel like I am forcing it on them and it is getting old because they often reject it; 2) am worried that I am actually poisoning them somehow.

I haven't taken them to the vet yet because they seem to do better once they start back up on some of the canned (and after I have given them a few drops of colloidal silver).

Has anyone else had this issue? Can anyone inspire me? I am just feeling really down and out. I'd like to continue, but it feels like a circus at this stage.

 

[lisamarie12]

Greetings,

I'm sorry you've been having difficulty with raw feeding your kitties.

Some cats take to raw immediately, others need more time. It can be a process, my 4.5 year old Molly still rejects frozen (or thawed raw) but she will eat freeze dried. I've been trying with her for quite some time.

The fact that you feel like you are "forcing" raw on them, I would consider taking a time-out, feeding them the canned food that they will eat and then begin this endeavor at a future time.  You want your cats to enjoy their food, I empathize because I have fussy cats as well.  Cats can be fussy at any age. 

Is it possible for you to get any kind of "toppers" in Switzerland, e.g., here in the US we can get freeze dried (meat only) treats such as Pure Bites or Bravo. They can be crumbled on top of the raw.

Have you visited this site: catinfo.org? Dr. Pierson has a section on trying to persuade fussy cats to eat raw or even canned food, she has a list of different ways to try to entice kitties.

But for now I think if it were me, I would give it a break.  Are you able to get any liver treats?  I'm not a big fan of liver treats, however, if you could get some, (maybe there would be options for dog liver treats if you can't find it for cats), you could take a pinch and sprinkle it on top of the food.

You said the commercial raw is expensive. At this point, you are buying and throwing out more food than you'd like. Is it possible to get a free trial sample from the commercial raw company?

What kind of premix or supplements are you using with the meat?

I have read that some have had good results with TC Feline's premix for raw, it is available via a retailer in Switzerland:

http://tcfeline.com/store-2/

http://www.tierbalance-enea.ch/shop_barf.php

Can you try turkey meat?

I can relate to your frustration, it's not unusual for some cats to be very picky.  I am sure other TCS members will chime in with more ideas.

Do take the cats to the vet if the vomiting continues, this can be very dehydrating; there may be an underlying cause as well.

It'll work out.

 

[sophie1]

We've all heard of picky cats but...at 7 months??  That just doesn't sound likely.  At this stage they should be gobbling everything in sight.  I remember putting down almost a pound of food a day when my two were 7 months old, and the kitties were still wanting more, and I was thinking that I'd have to ask for a raise just to deal with their food bill!

First question I have is whether there's a health issue.  You might consider taking them to the vet along with a stool sample.  Since they just started on raw food, there's always the possibility of a bacterial contaminant that they couldn't handle.

Next question is the food.  What are you feeding exactly?  If it's supermarket chicken, how fresh is it, and could it have been brined, or injected with salt solutions, or have any other additives?

Another question is the food environment.  Are they competing with each other at mealtimes?  Is the feeding spot in a busy or noisy place?   Is it too close to the litter box or to the water bowl?  Try feeding them in separate rooms during a quiet time. 

My last thought is that you may be approaching this whole feeding situation with a big measure of anxiety.   I found exactly the same thing with my two:  if I was anxious about something like brushing their teeth, getting them to eat bone-in meats, or brushing them, then it was always a battle.  Once I relaxed and acted as if it were a game, they stopped fighting me.   So maybe the best thing you can do right now is not to switch out foods at mealtimes - just put out whatever you're going to put out, walk away and watch TV or read a book or something, then at the end of the prescribed time pick up whatever they didn't eat, put it back in the fridge, and that's it.  No trying something else, no stress.

Silver lining for you:  it sounds like you're feeding them a good variety, which is going to help prevent pickiness later on.  Hang in there!

 

[konuku]

Thanks so much for your post. I have read quite a bit about getting cats to eat raw food. The funny thing is that they both took to it quite quickly - even at 100%. Then all of a sudden, they wouldn't touch it so I had to start incorporating it at smaller amounts and then ease my way up.

I add the normal supplements - B-50, E vitamin, Taurine, Glandular supplements, wild salmon oil, etc. 

Thanks for the info on the commercial raw food. If I still struggle, I will try it.

Though she looks to be feeling good, Mimi, my girl kitty, vomited again today, I am starting to think it could be a hairball issue based on another post that I read. She did not vomit immediately but almost 5 hours after, which someone suggested could be due to a stuck hairball. She refuses to eat hair ball paste so hast gotten very little hair ball "treatment" since I got them - almost 3 months ago. And she grooms a lot - herself as well as her brother.

So, I might try that treatment first before I give up on raw food. She started eating raw feed again for the past few days and no issue until today. Unlike a few days ago, she is full of energy, so she might have had a tummy bug but now has a fur ball. 

If she had a problem with the protein, I read that she maybe would have diarrhea too? Her stools are almost always normal.

 

[konuku]

Thanks. Yes, they are picky and have been since I got them at 4 1/2 months but the boy has become much pickier than his sister. He will often eat only chicken and only from a specific brand. He started doing this virtually overnight. But, you know, he'll probably get bored of that too someday and make me play the "what food will he eat now" game and make me go through lots of $, trying to newly discover what he will now eat.

You might be right about the anxiety side. They will often just sniff their food and walk away, which worries me because I don't want them to be undernourished. And they often refuse to eat leftovers. Sigh. I wish they would be gobbling up everything in sight instead.

 

[bellaluna777]

I have two ragdolls and two persians that are exclusively on a pre-prepared raw food diet. On the odd occassion my femlae ragdoll would throw up. I believe it was because she was eating too much, too fast.

We also found out the hard way that leaving the food out for more than 30 minutes was a huge problem and there have been a few times my ragdolls ate something I had forgotten I  had left out and as a result, they threw up. I solved the 30 minute time limit  by buying a frozen bowl, which we can leave out for about 4 hours at a time. 

It's been my experience that ragdolls in particular are super picky to take to a food. A case in point is our 7 month-old ragdoll Charlie. Charlie came to us at 2 month eating just dry. Then we started mixing in raw a little, but he just loved that fast-food tasting dry. One day, I tried giving him freeze dried raw and since it looks like dry, he ate all of it. We have still been transitioning him over the past 5 months to just raw, but it's a slow process and he eats 1/2 freeze dried and 1/2 raw lamb.

We found that sprinkling ground up freeze dried chicken bites or a bit of florastor helped convince them to eat. 

 

[samus]

Can you explain more about the frozen bowl? Is it like a bowl with an integrated ice pack? Could an ice pack under a normal bowl work just as well?

 

[bellaluna777]

There is a frozen container that sits under a metal dish and keeps raw food from spoiling for around 3 or 4 hours. http://www.frostybowlz.com/FrostyBowlz_Chilled_Pet_Bowl_p/3700.htm

I guess an ice pack would do, though the frosty bowl, as it is called, fits right together maximizing the cold temperature. I have two of them for each of my Ragdolls.  

 

[thetank123]

Very interesting re the frozen bowl.  Our guys have a tendency to nibble as soon as I put it out, then come back later and really get down to business.  This leads us to leaving the bowl out for longer than the recommended time.  I understand why people say the half hour, but, frankly, I don't really think its supported by any kind of science.  We certainly wouldn't leave the food out all day, but a half hour vs. an hour?  I'm not seeing the issue there.  If the theory is that cats are equipped to eat raw food because it's more natural, it would logically follow that cats can eat food left out longer than an hour.  Cats in the wild are notorious for killing prey and eating it over the course of days.

 

[samus]

My cat grazes throughout the day, if I tried to restrict her to two mealtimes she'd be vomiting daily....

I really don't know where the "30 minutes" comes from, I remember from when I was working food service that the rule of thumb was throw it out if it'd been out of refrigeration or off the stove (between 40 and 140 F) for more than four hours. I don't remember any special exceptions for raw meat (but it wasn't like I was serving any raw meat).

 

[sophie1]

My cats are basically free-fed using that same chilled bowl setup.  I find it not only keeps food cool but also it looks fresh even after a full day.  I change the ice packs twice a day and throw out anything uneaten after 24 hours.  It's super convenient since I can fill the bowl once a day if I want to.  Also I confess I use just one bowl for the two of them - I had been using two, but they won't eat at the same time unless they're completely out of sight of each other.  I have no other place to put the second bowl, so I just gave it up.

I've enjoyed watching their eating patterns, which has definitely helps avoid wasting food - which is the biggest problem with this feeding scheme.  Sometimes they feed themselves big meals - one of them will sometimes eat just once in a day.  Meals are most commonly late evening and very early morning, like 5 am.  Other times, they nibble a bit at a time.  About once or twice a week, they fast, meaning that they eat very little or nothing for a full day, sometimes up to 3 days.  Once they start eating again, they make up for it.

The main reasons I stick with this are that I like that they can feed themselves naturally and on their own schedule, and they regulate their weight quite well.  Also of course it works well with my schedule and makes it a lot easier on cat sitters.  I did train them to eat a small meal in the morning so I can give them chunky foods and things that  I want to make sure each one is eating, and one of them goes absolutely insane when it's time for his "treat".

Anyway - point is that leaving food out for long periods of time is NOT necessarily a problem, and while scheduled feedings are obviously just fine, some cats may do better if allowed to graze.  Leaving food out for several hours is fine, although if it's going to be longer than 3-4 hours you might want to consider investing in the Frostybowlz.  My sister feeds her cat two meals a day (canned or raw), and the cat takes several hours to finish each meal.  She doesn't chill the bowl.

Now if only someone would make a refrigerated setup that you plug in or run on batteries!

 

[monkeymom]

@Konuku

In regards to the vomiting, I've struggled with this in the past with my cats as well. I found out that my boy cannot tolerate high amounts of fat in his diet, so I have to be careful how much egg yolk I add and balance higher fat meats with lower ones. My girl cannot tolerate rabbit. I've tried three different sources with the same outcome: regurgitating within 1hr after eating. Once we stopped feeding rabbit she did fine. It could be hairballs, but usually now when we get them they look like the typical balls of fur (small clumps) and not regurgitated food or vomit.

I agree with stepping back and trying to re-introduce raw food. Back when I started mine (~7mo) I would usually place a dish of raw next to their canned food, and slowly add a higher percentage of raw vs. canned over time. That way I could toss the raw after a given time but maybe leave the canned out for longer. You could try plain raw meat, then add in one supplement at a time and see what happens. I also agree with trying a different source of meat. Cats are very picky if anything smells "off". Mine would take hours to finish a grind from one company but snarf down food prepared from a different brand. Same type of protein.

How is their stool looking?