Using dog frontline flea medication for my cat?

[hownowmeow]

An observation about Capstar.  I just bought a gram scale in order to get accurate weights when dividing doses of Capstar tablets. To my surprise I found that the tablets that are claimed to have 57mg of the active ingredient Nitenpyram in fact only weigh 50 mg at the most - some a bit less.  Does anyone understand how a tablet that has 3 or 4 binders/inactive ingredients and yet weighs only 50mg could actually have 57mg of the active ingredient?

Deborah

 

[Willowy]

Hehe I never thought about that! I'm pretty sure a 100 mg amoxicillin gelcap doesn't weigh 100 mgs. So. . .maybe dosage mgs are different from weight mgs? I need to go look that up. . .

Wait, no, that's not right. 1 mg is 1/1000 of a gram, so the pill couldn't weigh only 50 mg. Maybe .50 grams (500 mg)? I think I got that figured out right. Darn Americans not using metric, lol.

 

[Willowy]

Please all cat lovers read this reply! I had to reply to this as here is a cautionary tale: I once laid out anti-flea tablets in a row on my kitchen counter, 2 tablets for my 2 dogs & 5 tablets for my 5 cats. Something disturbed my concentration & by mistake I pushed one of the dog tablets down my tabby cat's throat. In seconds I realised what I'd done & rang the vets' surgery. The vet himself took the call & told me to get the cat to him with all speed & he would 'do all he could to save him'. Horror, shock! I sped off in total panic, breaking all speed limits, & got the cat to the vet within 20 minutes. Some hours of horrible waiting later I was told that Bengy had survived but that he was a very lucky cat, because if I hadn't got him to the vet for urgent treatment he would have died - this is because dog flea meds are too powerful for a cat's neurological system to withstand. Bengy lived many more years but I never got over the fact that I could have killed him from a combination of ignorance & lack of concentration. So please, all cat lovers, absorb this info!

This depends on what product it was, and how much larger the dog is. With some products, the cat version and the version for dogs the same size as cats are the exact same product. Of course the pill for large dogs would be a severe overdose for a cat, but that's a matter of dosage not product. And, of course, with some products the dog version really is toxic to cats.

 

[4catsncounting]

Hi Hownowmeow-

Does the packaging say "mg by weight" or "mg by volume"?  That doesn't even feel right, since if I recall correctly it is only ounces that can be converted between weight and volume....

Perhaps your scale isn't calibrated, or not sensitive enough, or moisture was drawn out.... or the manufacturer is indeed cheating consumers.  Hmmmm...

Try weighing other things and see if the problem is replicated.

 

[hownowmeow]

Hello Willowy and 4cats--Willowy you were right, I was misreading my new scale thinking it was mg when it was grams.

4cats - there's no mention of weight versus volume on the box or the insert.

This is from the FDA's site: CAPSTAR Tablets should be administered orally, at a minimum dosage rate of 1.0 mg/kg (0.45 mg/lb) body weight according to the Recommended Dosage Schedule below. Weigh your pet prior to administration to ensure proper dosage.

Recommended Dosage Schedule
Species
Body Weight
Dose
Amount of Nitenpyram per Tablet
Dog or Cat
2 - 25 lbs.
One tablet
11.4 mg

Me again: So the TABLETS should be given at a MINIMUM dosage rate of 0.45mg/lb of body weight. How do you all interpret this? 0.45mg x 10lbs = 4.5 mgs .  I have tablets that weight 50g.

Highly recommended: the FDA'a pdf summarizes the actual studies done on cats and dogs. They even used placebos and fake-dosing.

CAPSTAR - U S Food and Drug Administration Home Page

CAPSTAR (nitenpyram) Tablets For the treatment of flea infestations on dogs, puppies, cats and kittens four weeks of age and older and 2 of pounds body weight or greater

fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/Appro...

 

[Willowy]

You don't go by weight of the tablet. You go by the dosage. So if each tablet has 11.4 mg, and minimum dosage is .45 mg per lb, and your cat weighs 10 pounds, the minimum dosage would be 4.5 mg which would be a bit less than half of a tablet. Well I knew they deliberately overdose with Capstar (because nitanpyram is pretty safe) but wow, you could save a lot by just splitting the pills!

I don't think the pills weigh 50 grams either. My baby snake weighed 100 grams when I got him and he was considerably larger than 2 pills . My guess is that they weigh 500 mg, or .5 g----check the booklet that comes with the scale to see if they have tips on reading it. Some scales are a little difficult to figure out.

 

[4catsncounting]

Umm, huh?

I thought we were simply addressing the incongruity of her scale telling her she has about 7+ mg. less product than what the manufacturer states is, by weight, in each pill?

 

[Willowy]

Because there's no incongruity--- the pills DON'T weigh 50 mg, that's not possible. They probably weigh 500 mg each. I just tried to weigh some small things and my scale doesn't weigh less than a gram, boo. But for general comparisons, 1 ml of water (a cubic centimeter, 1/5 of a teaspoon) weighs about 1 gram. And water is heavier than most things. 50 mg of water would be 1/10 of a drop of water---tiny! 50 mg is not a lot.

The weight of the pill has nothing to do with the dosage.

 

[hownowmeow]

The large dog size pills I have weight 50 GRAMS, not mgs as I'd originally thought. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[hownowmeow]

and yet another apology - the large dog pills are 0.5 grams.  Good effing grief.  Am about to retire for the evening with a tumeric smoothie.

 

[Willowy]

OK, that's what I thought .

Yeah, you can use a large dog Capstar to treat about 10-12 cats. The main problem is cutting the pill that small :/. But crushing it and mixing it evenly with canned food works well for treating farm cats and ferals. With a good splitter I can get the pill in 8 pieces, but they're so small it's hard to give a piece to a cat. But putting it in food is fine, too, as long as they eat everything.

 

[ashade1]

I am a small rescue always looking for ways to save some money! We use Frontline for Large dogs and get 8 cat doeses out of one tube and have never had any problems doing this! I think it is a wonderful way for rescues to save some money!

 

[micro1eye]

Hello I have a 12 Lb 1 Eyed Cat Named Micro. And i just recently got fleas somehow and they are unstoppable cost me $30 Bucks for Powders and collar

I have Front line Plus for Dogs 44-88 one and i have read all the other users using 1/5 of that for a 10lb cat but my Needle that i have is all worn and i have a scale and it's in 0.001 mg and the total weight of the liquid is 2.450 mgs So I'm thinking about testing it with 1/6th of the weight which = 0.408 mgs

Does this sound correct to you all I'm going by 1/6 instead because i spilt some of it and i want to be safe.

So reply either way OK

Also What is the weigh of this product in MG's or is their a place here that has a chart. I realize everyone doesn't have a 0.001 mg scale but i do & yes the syringe does seem easier but I'll get a diabetes one later

Also i have access to expired front-line like 5-8 years old and I'm wondering if i dilute it wilt water will this kill the fleas if i spray everything in my house like carpet couch chairs anything that fabric i may be able to get a few oz from a vet

Thanks You all

13934998_10206842109356641_1276352439836640447_n.j

• micro1eye
• Aug 10, 2016

 

[jmarkitell]

You DON'T inject the cat with a needle. A syringe without a needle is the best for measuring the dose. Maybe I misunderstood what you said, but an injection isn't used for Frontline or most others. If you drew up the medicine in an eyedropper or syringe, you can pretty well estimate the dose. Weighing the medicine will also work, but you will probably lose a large amount of it by trying to measure it and transferring it between containers...a lot will stick to the sides of the vials and there isn't that much medicine to begin with. Just about all larger pharmacies sell cheap medicine syringes in various sizes...I would recommend using one of these and studying up again on your fractions!

Jim

 

[micro1eye]

Hello

Yes i know that you put it on the back of the neck on the skin i only left the needle on their to get to the bottom of the packet but the dose will be correct even tho it's less than 1/5 @ 1/6th or 0.408mg's Sorry Jim i will go to the post and put this in it thanks But u know what a good MG weight should be also She's 13.80 lbs thanks Jim

13432220_10206470516947063_3672450618313268068_n.j

• micro1eye
• Aug 10, 2016

 

[micro1eye]

Hi Jim

Which Fraction is wrong i had 2.450 mg of the liquid in a small seal able vial and 6 in to that is 0.408333 MG is that incorrect.

The Packet is a 2.68 ml one but some split so i don't know what the actual weight was for the 2.68ml been looking all over but it's no where. And i had the empty vial on the scale and did a tare to zero and that was the weight i had was the 2.450mg.

I would rather give her less than too much. She's already had a Bad start with 1 eye and then having a dead baby in her and that cost me over a grand to get her better and it was touchy then and these fleas are driving her nuts and she's giving me dirty looks when she scratches them

Thanks Again Jim

 

[micro1eye]

Well this is what i found on the weight of this frontline plus so is this correct because according to this the 2.68 ml will weigh 321.6 mg but when i weighed it from the 0.091 oz i got 2.450mg

Also i will weigh the empty syringe without the needle and then draw up the .408mg if my math is correct with the product i have and that is 1/6th

So what website would have this weight info for the 2.68ml would the MSDS have it which is this site it's a PDF file http://www.frontlineplus.com.au/res...df/frontline_plus_dog_v3a_new_date_190514.pdf

I guess i'm blind because i can't find it their either

So who's wrong here the website i got this from is http://www.starlightbostonterriers.com/fleamedchart.htm

Or should that read 1200 mg but that comes out to 3216 and this is a new scale and i have calibration standards for 500mg 5 gr and 10gr and it checks out +/- 0.001 mg

So is this what you meant Jim  Thanks again u all

If you're using Frontline Plus:
The amount of fipronil in the dog version is the same as in the cat version. The "Plus" is methoprene, an insect growth regulator. There's LESS of it in the dog product than in the cat product, so it's safe to use the dog product on the cats but do NOT use the cat product on a small dog.

Revolution: (selamectin)

Product Insert    

Dose is 0.025ml/pound. Multiply 0.025 times your pet’s weight for dose

(Package instructions)                            (based on 120mg per 1ml)
Up to 5lb cat/dog 60mg/ml = 0.25ml         0.0-5lb dog/ cat =  0.12 ml
5.1-15lb cat         60mg/ml = 0.75ml         5.1-10lb dog/cat = 0.25 ml
5.1-10lb dog      120mg/ml = 0.25ml       10.1-20lb dog/cat = 0.5 ml
10.1-20lb           120mg/ml = 0.5 ml        20.1-40b dog       = 1.0 ml
20.1-40lb          120mg/ml = 1.0 ml        40.1-85lb dog       = 2.0 ml
40.1-85lb          120mg/ml = 2.0 ml        85.1-130lb dog     = 3.0 ml
85.1-130           120mg/ml = 3.0 ml

 

[hbunny]

I'm a bit confused.  Coming from a healthcare profession, I cannot understand why you are weighing a solution to calculate dosage.  Or the empty syringe. 

Your dose on hand, which is shown on your package in a manner such as 25mg/ml, tells you the mg of the drug dissolved in one ml of the solute.  You can have one solution of say Valium that is 2mg/1ml, yet another bottle of it that is 10mg/1ml.  You can weigh one ml of each and they will weigh the same on a scale.  However, the 2nd bottle is going to give 5 times the dose of the actual medication.

Please be VERY careful and let your vet give you a dosage!!  Please!!

 

[red top rescue]

I agree, this whole discussion about weight of the PRODUCT is not relevant!!

The only weight that matters is that of the animal.

The product just needs to be measured, in volume, not weight, i.e. MILLILITERS (ml) not MILLIGRAMS (mg.)

You are discussing FRONTLINE, not Revolution, correct?

It's simple.  0.50 MILLILITERS of the solution is the correct dose for all adult cats.  

One Extra Large Dog size vial of Frontline Plus contains 4.02 ML (that is 8 times 0.50 ml. with a little left over)

That is enough to treat 8 cats. 

Using a 1 ml. syringe which is marked in tenths, you would draw the Frontline up to the "5"  mark (which is 0.5 ml/) on the syringe

and part their fur in a line between the shoulders where they cannot lick and put the solutin next to the skin, then cover it up with the hair so they can't shake it off, and you are done.

Note:

There are two different concentrations of Revolution, which is why so much is in that chart at the bottom of the last post.  For Revolution, the concentration for larger animals is double, so you need to use different amounts depending on which solution you are using, i.e. small dog or large dog.  Obviously you use half as much of the stronger concentration (large dog = 120 mg./ml) than you do of the weaker concentration (small dog = 60 mg./ml)  for the same size animal.  However, Frontline has just one concentration so it's really simple, as shown above.

 

[woodheather]

I don't think you should use the same