Useful raw feeding supplies

[aprilprey]

That's really interesting. I didn't know they were smoked. The stuff we bought at the supermarket - not an asian store - listed the ingredients as "bonito."

When canned fish are smoked, that is mentioned. But that doesn't mean bonito flakes aren't fermented and smoked... but we also didn't buy them from an Asian store. I wonder if it's the difference between La Choy soy sauce, for instance, which is mass produced, and "real" soy sauce, which is really expensive - and is fermented for years.

Consulted The Boyfriend, my expert in all things Japanese.  I forgot to tell you about the Cave Full of Special Mold - Japanese bonito is smoked in special caves that have a mold growing on the walls.  It is VERY labor intensive, traditional bonito - workers are hauling it in and out of the caves multiple times: from drying in the sun, to smoking in the moldly cave.  No way would a US manufacturer go through that.  Think Kobe beef and the labor involved there - that's the Japanese Way.

That's why I erred on the side of caution and bought "pet" bonito made in the US for cats...just fish, that's all.  Considering how slowly we go through it, no biggie that I probably paid too much.

And yes, you are right about US soy sauce: its a very quick brew, caramel color added to compensate for the quick brew rather than slow fermentation.  EVERYTHING about Japan is labor intensive.  Landscape design is one of my hobbies.  Ever seen a nice photo of those beautiful, Japanese moss gardens?  Wonder how they look so nice all the time?  ARMIES of volunteers who have been on a waiting list for years for the honor of picking up dead leaves a few hours a week at their local historical garden. 

 

[aprilprey]

I have a Tasin. I can't imagine manually grinding bone.

There is a strong NeoLuddite streak in our house, partially developed by frequent power outages.  No, we don't live in the middle of nowhere, just an incompetent power company, lots of tall fir trees, and we are in an odd location off a dead end.  Always the last to get power back.  So we are attracted to manual.

Our last batch used turkey drumsticks that must have been from an older bird.  The first grind was HARD, despite taking some of the bone out for better meat/bone ratio!  I had to sit on the table where the grinder was attached while The Boyfriend gave it all he had!

Lesson learned: stick to thighs and smaller bones!  Can't wait to send a rabbit through the grinder.

 

[furmonster mom]

Cost-saving ideas:

Make your own "Clorox Anywhere" by mixing 1 part bleach with 10 parts water in your own spray bottle.

Buy a postal scale on eBay.

Furmonster mom uses the take-out restaurant cardboard French fry containers as disposable dishes.

Errrmmm... nope, that wasn't me, I use the little "tea saucers"/appetizer plates from an old Corelle set.. 

I feed Frankenprey (whole, not ground) for 4 cats & 1 dog. 

FoodSaver is my friend.

I buy most meats in bulk at Costco, divide out by daily (not meal) portions for all 5 animals, then vac-pack & freeze.

Organ meats are portioned out similarly, so I can mix 'n' match meats & organs each day.

Okay... not to be completely misleading, I do have a 2 week supply of meal portion packs made up for the pet-sitters, or for when we are crazy short on time.

So, my supply list...

FoodSaver machine - I prefer the gamesaver deluxe model because it allows me to put the seal anywhere, making it easier to create custom sized packages.  This is especially handy for making up the small pet-sitter meal portions.

FoodSaver bags - I've tried the "off brand" bags, and lemme tellya, ya get whacha pay for.  Best value for FoodSaver bags is Costco (that I've found).

Board, knife, scissors - I have a board that my father gave me from his restaurant supplier several years ago.  I've not found them since, even in the restaurant supply houses here in town.  It's a very dense, sturdy white board, supposedly made from layers of compacted paper.  It gets marked up like any other wood board, but the density allows for it to be scraped or even lightly sanded without losing a lot of structure.  I love it.  Short story, don't skimp on these items, you will use them daily.

Scale - Again, something I use daily.  I recommend looking for something that is sturdy and easy to clean.  Try to find one that goes lower than .25 oz.  Mine goes to the nearest 1/8, other folks have them down to 1/10. 

Cleaner - I make my own with bleach water and a dash of laundry soap.  If you add soap to your bleach water, use laundry soap as it is usually specially formulated to work with bleach.  DO NOT use dish soap!  Most dish soaps have ammoniates which react very badly with bleach.

Freezer - We finally broke down and bought a full sized freezer & stuck it in the garage.  Something I learned when researching freezers is the difference between auto-defrost and manual defrost. 

Manual defrost keeps a steady temp but tends to build up frost on the shelves.  So about once a year you need to empty it out, turn it off, and let the frost melt. 

Auto defrost cycles through a range of temps from 30 - 40 (F) degrees, thereby not really allowing the frost to build up in the first place.  The problem, however, is that many auto defrosts have not been calibrated well, and some can run from 35 - 45 degrees... not even down to true freezing on one end, and much too warm on the other.  The other thing is, think about what that does to the water in your foods, they are in a constant state of freezing-thawing-freezing-thawing... which translates to expanding-contracting-expanding-contracting.  This is okay for short term storage, but over longer term could possibly contribute to freezer burn.

I ended up choosing a manual defrost, and have been quite satisfied with its performance.

You've gotten a lot of really good tips here... sorry to contribute to the overload. 

 

[ldg]

Ooops, sorry! :anon: That was HarleyDiva. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/260796/what-do-you-feed-your-cats-on#post_3369203

As to the scale, because I feed some of my cats freeze dried liver in place of fresh, I actually have one that measures to the gram. For normal people, , 1/10th or 1/8th ounce is fine. If postal scales go to 0.25 ounce, I'm sure that could be made to work.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Don't forget the plastic place mats for each cat so you can easily wipe them off if they pull their meat out of their bowls or just  are messy eaters

Also, you'll probably want to start them on digestive enzymes when first feeding them raw, to help their tummies with the transition, and also give them probiotics.

I use a plastic cutting "sheet" on top of my wooden cutting board for ease in cleaning, and a very good, sharp knife for cutting thru "almost" frozen roasts, etc. Scissors are great too, but they don't work well when you're trying to cut up a large piece of meat (IMHO).   I usually buy a chuck roast, or pork loin or something like that when it's on sale, then freeze it  for at least 6 hrs and it's SO MUCH easier to start slicing and cutting into strips. 

 

[aprilprey]

My Boyfriend and I debate this.  He is half Japanese - there is a very long, complex process to making bonito flakes for human consumption that includes smoking and fermentation.  Its the basis for dashi, a popular fish broth, which is why the flavoring is important.  I was too afraid those made for people would have extra stuff in them.

Am I wrong?  He buys them from an Asian store, and I can't read Japanese (neither can he) - I'll have to inspect those bags in the Asian stores a little better.  Been wondering if the smoking or fermentation process would produce anything harmful for cats.  I have been thinking of making a "brown" rabbit broth to see if that helps entice my older cat, who I am convinced has a compromised sense of smell.  Trying to get that "gamey" smell into the food, but wondering if the "browning" would be similar to smoking/fermenting, with bad results.

ETA: that would seriously suck, you should see the size of the bags of bonito flakes here in Lakewood, WA - in our Asian/International district stores.  Bags the size of a bed pillow for cheap - I could re-package the stuff and sell it for a profit!

 I did not want to leave the bonito issue hanging.  We do have bonito from Japan in the house - the label is in Japanese with some terrible English translation.  English translations on Japanese products tend to be more amusing than helpful.  For example, on our package it says under ingredients: Bonito (contains fish).  The exact process with smoking/curing might be proprietary and a closely guarded secret, and who knows what labeling laws in Japan are like.  It would not surprise me if they were allowed to be vague with certain products.

So - am glad to err on the side of caution in getting "pet bonito". 

 

[ldg]

I've never priced it, but the Eden Bonito flakes aren't smoked.

 

[carolina]

I am getting here late, I will post my supplies when it's not 2am
But on the Scale, I have been through several, and I love my current one: EatSmart Precision Elite Digital Kitchen Scale - 15 lb. Capacity, UltraBright Display and Stainless Steel Platform

The digits and the plate are nice and big, it is precise to 0.05oz or 1g - IMHO that' plenty.

It is very easy to clean - there are no grooves to harbor nasties.
I love the large plate as well. The other ones made the job of cutting large badges of meat hard - this one is good for a large plate, for daily meals, and of course for my mail :lol3:

 

[parsleysage]

Thank you everyone for the great replies!! I have been checking in but this past weekend was crazy with moving stuff and I have an economics exam tomorrow LOL so didn't have time to post.

Sounds like to get started, I need at minimum:

• Scale
• High quality shears, knife, and cutting board
• Enzymes and probiotics - anyone have any favorites?
• Toppers - sounds like bonito flakes are a good choice!
• Plastic mats for the feeding area
• Room in the freezer 
  
• Baggies of varying sizes
• Ice trays could be a useful meal-measuring tool

Plus some frankenprey advice:

• Calcium source if not feeding bone
• Taurine or include hearts in the diet
• Sardines in place of salmon oil

I am not sure when we will get started with raw - the move has been pushed back to September 1 instead of August 1 as the rental house is being renovated (worth the wait, but still frustrating). It will be soon after that, though, as I am eager to get away from grain-free canned now that Wellness and Wellness Core are TWO DOLLARS a can. 

 I will probably update this thread with my costs so that someone else getting started could use it as a reference. 

 

[carolina]

You are getting there!!


To answer your question -
Here is the probiotic I love, and most importantly, the kids too: Natural Factors Probiotic

Here is the Enzymes I use - works well and they never had issues with it: Prozyme

Not sure if anyone told you what Taurine to use - this is the one I use and it's great: NOW Foods Taurine:

I suggest you get some Fortiflora as a TOPPER - NOT as a probiotic, but it is a powerful topper! The main ingredient is nasty - Animal Digest..... Same ingredient kibbles are coated with - which is what makes the kitties go gaga for it. You don't mix it in the food - you only lightly dust the food with it.
Amazon is MUCH cheaper than the vet..... Here you go: Fortiflora

 

[katluver4life]

I use for my non bone/organ meals. Just a sprinkle on their meat chunks, 1 tsp/3oz, is all that is needed. (not to be used with organs, just meats). My cats love the taste too.

If you are using a meat and organ combination, eggshell powder can be used for calcium.