Urine Crystals -- Is prescription diet needed?

[ccsr79]

So Lucas has crystals in his urine. The doctor prescribed antibiotics and also said that Lucas needs to eat Hill's C/D prescription diet FOR LIFE. The hell??

Now is the prescription diet really needed? The reason I ask is that I've done tons and tons of research on cat food when I got Lucas (this forum helped a lot), and the basic things I learned about cat food was that:
-corn is bad for cats
-any by-product meal is bad quality meat and should be avoided
-you should have meat as the first ingredient
-the higher the protein, the better

So I've been feeding him a combination of Innova Evo and Chicken Soup for the Soul, their main ingredients are meats and none of them have corn listed as an ingredient. Now on Hills C/D diet the list of ingredients starts with: brewer's rice (bad, it should be meat first), chicken by-product meal (by-products are the bad parts of the chicken!), corn gluten meal (bad!), pork fat and the rest are preservatives/flavorings/supplements.

Now is that really necessary that I put Lucas in a bad quality food just because he has crystals??? Isn't it better to maybe increase his wet food, and reduce his dry food a bit, but keep him on GOOD quality food as opposed to be feeding him crap?

Is there anything I can add to his current food to help avoid the recurrence of crystals? I really really really hate the idea of putting him on a lower quality food with worse ingredients!!

 

[vanillasugar]

I really think a lot of vets rely on the prescription diets because that's the basis of their nutritional education.

No, I don't think the prescription diet is necessary. But that's my opinion. I strongly believe in wet food for cats with urinary troubles, and think that a high quality wet food diet will be much more beneficial then some "specially formulated" food with horrible ingredients.

Do your research, arm yourself with LOTS of resources and information, and return to your vet with this in hand. Maybe you can teach your vet a thing or two

Explain why you don't want to feed the c/d, and why you've learned that something else would be better.

 

[ccsr79]

I did explain that to the vet's assistant today who was pushing me in the c/d food and her very rude reply was "well, if you keep giving him your cheap food, he'll be back here again with crystals" Well, all of you here know that Innova Evo & Chicken Soup are nowhere cheap (specially the Evo at $20 for a 6lb bag!) and the ingredients are great. I was armed with info and a printout of the ingredients for them both when I went to the vet, but the vet asst refused to see it, and kept repeating the same thing over and over. Geez.

Now, on the wet food... Now I give him half a pouch of Nutro (he was getting chubby...). Lucas won't eat any canned food, so I'm stuck to the pouches, not a lot of variety out there. I was thinking of increasing it to a whole pouch a day, and reducing a bit his dry food instead (to avoid him getting fatter).

Any other recommendations/ideas?

 

[jlutgendorf]

I'm actually wondering the same thing.

About a month ago, our male cat Duncan pee'd a big ol' puddle of bright red pee. So off to the vet! his urinalysis came back saying he has phosphate/phosphorus (can't remember) crystals. The vet put him on an Rx royal canin diet. I wasn't too excited as I didn't think the ingredients were quite as good at the Nutro Indoor formula he was on, though the switch to Nutro may have been what caused this problem in the first place.

Vet said he would most likely need to be on the diet for life and that it's quite common for cats to get blocked within days of taking them off.

So he's been eating it for a monthish now and I haven't been as good as I could have been about making sure he doesn't sneak the other cat's food.

Yesterday, I found him peeing/spraying on a curtain, and through the course of the day and into the night he was peeing in random spots and the pee got progressivly darker and darker.

So he went back to the vets again today and thankfully wasn't blocked and is now on antibiotics and Science Diet Rx food (supposedly tastes better)
I'm trying to get him to eat the wet food, but he's just not really a wet food kinda cat.

I don't know that letting him sneak the Nutro is what caused his relapse, but at this point I don't really want to find out. I'm terrified of him getting sick again, for his sake and financially.

I would love to hear other's experiences with their male cats and crystals. Do you feed exclusivly Rx? Have you found other ways to prevent UTIs?
And do the crystals cause the UTIs or do the UTI's cause the crystals.
And, thanks for reading my long post!

~Julia

 

[denice]

I took my cat off a prescription low residue food for the same reasons you have stated. But that was for episodes of pancreatitis. It's my understanding that with the crystals there is a need to keep the urine at a certain PH to try to avoid the crystals. And the type of crystals the cat has dictates what kind of food they eat. I know it's more money but if possible you could look into taking him to a good holistic vet. He would probably know more about nutrition and the urinary problem. This is the kind of problem that needs a specific type of food but I do think there is something better quality than the prescription diets.

 

[tuxedokitties]

If he won't eat canned, you're really much safer giving him the prescription food than continuing on with the same dry foods that he's developed crystals on.

JMHO, but even though the individual ingredients may look better, if the foods he's been on have caused him to develop crystals, it's not truly better for him in this case. Urinary blockages, aside from being terribly uncomfortable, can be very serious - even life-threatening.

I'd say follow the vet's advice and give him the prescription food until you can get him to a holistic vet for recommendations.

 

[vanillasugar]

The nutro pouches are chunky right? Maybe he'd prefer canned if it was chunky instead of pate style? Merrick is the only other one I can think of at the moment that's chunky, but it's worth the try!

Otherwise, I do agree with tuxedokitties, if he wont eat canned (it really should make up most, if not all, of his diet), then perhaps the prescription diet should be considered. I'd also look into getting a second opinion from a homeopathic veterinarian

 

[petnurse2265]

Denice is correct, the whole point of the prescription food is to keep the PH toward the middle of the road. If the PH goes one way you get calcium oxylate crystals and on the other end of the spectrum you get struvite crystals. What you can do is see if your vet (or another vet) will sell you some PH strips so you can monitor where your cats current food is keeping the PH, and try tweaking it accordingly. I would also recommend having your vet do a urinalysis on a regular basis to catch crystals when they start. Besides blockages crystal (both Struvite and calcium oxylate crystals) can eventually lead to stones in the bladder or worse yet the kidney's. Bladder stones can be removed, but kidney stones cannot (Kidneys are unforgiving organs when it comes to surgery). One of my dogs has stones in both her kidneys and is on hill's C/D and antibiotics for the rest of her life.

 

[semiferal]

For urinary crystals, the most important thing is a wet food only diet. Dry food causes chronic dehydration and concentrated urine, which forms crystals more easily.

c/d can be useful for dissolving struvite crystals, but it can shift the urinary pH in the opposite direction and contribute to calcium oxylate crystals, which are worse because they don't dissolve and need to be surgically removed.

If it were me, I'd probably use the c/d in the short term to dissolve the crystals but then switch to a canned or canned/raw diet. I definitely would not include any dry food as a regular part of that cat's diet from that point forward.

 

[cathyc]

I highly recommend the prescription diet for this condition. I have a cat that first had a UTI/crystals in the urine and then a blockage. He was not put on a special diet between the two episodes. After his $400 week in the hospital I put him on the Hills c/d and we have had no more problems. About 12 yrs. ago I had another male cat with this problem. He too first had an infection then a blockage. The vet never suggested changing his diet. About 6 months later he had another blockage and had to go to the emergency clinic. This time he wasn't so lucky. He had so much damage to his kidneys he died right after surgery. I wish I had known then what I do now about the diet and maybe he would have survived. Besides my regular vet I do use a homeopathic vet and while she doesn't care for Hill's cat foods she said that sometimes with certain conditions their prescription diets are necessary.

 

[vanillasugar]

Originally Posted by semiferal

For urinary crystals, the most important thing is a wet food only diet. Dry food causes chronic dehydration and concentrated urine, which forms crystals more easily.

c/d can be useful for dissolving struvite crystals, but it can shift the urinary pH in the opposite direction and contribute to calcium oxylate crystals, which are worse because they don't dissolve and need to be surgically removed.

If it were me, I'd probably use the c/d in the short term to dissolve the crystals but then switch to a canned or canned/raw diet. I definitely would not include any dry food as a regular part of that cat's diet from that point forward.

I thought the s/d was the dissolving diet and the c/d was just the general "maintinance" for urinary health type diet. I know the s/d is most definatley only for short term use, but didn't think the same applied to the c/d. (Not that it particularly matters, when I agree with you entirely on wet food

)

 

[cathyc]

Yes, I didn't mention that but mine gets the c/d wet food. I do keep a small bag of the dry food and a few times a week give him a few pieces just because he loves dry food so much and it's never bothered him.

 

[goo]

another vote for c/d food, like other say wet canned food and keep the HP as balance as possible is the key.

As for Nutro food I don't know about you guys/girls but I have very bad exp with them.

 

[sharky]

It depends on the type of cyrstals and the severity there are a few OTC foods for the sturvite.. , But you need to talk to the vet I too advice wet or raw if you can get kitties cooperation... I have no male cats and have never had a problem so this is all I can say ... I will say my Kandie is on raw /canned for kidneys and doing great

 

[jlutgendorf]

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I'm more than happy to keep him on the rx food. No one has mentioned phosphate/phosphorus crystals. Is that another name for struvite or calcium oxylate crystals?
And I'm trying to get him to eat the c/d wet food, but even with a little catnip on it, he just licks it a bit. Is any wet food better than an Rx dry food?
I am very confused about the all the abreviations for things. His first food was a Rx royal cannin that was for disolving crystals, now he's on Hills c/d, which doesn't mention disolving, but it does mention it has low phosphate levels, which I guess is good as that's the kind of crystals he develops.

~Julia

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by jlutgendorf

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I'm more than happy to keep him on the rx food. No one has mentioned phosphate/phosphorus crystals. Is that another name for struvite or calcium oxylate crystals?
And I'm trying to get him to eat the c/d wet food, but even with a little catnip on it, he just licks it a bit. Is any wet food better than an Rx dry food?
I am very confused about the all the abreviations for things. His first food was a Rx royal cannin that was for disolving crystals, now he's on Hills c/d, which doesn't mention disolving, but it does mention it has low phosphate levels, which I guess is good as that's the kind of crystals he develops.

~Julia

I am not at home with my book marks .. but if you pm me when I get back I will send the info I have

 

[semiferal]

Definitely, wet food is better than prescription dry food.

Wysong makes a prescription struvite diet and a prescription urinary tract diet. This is an excellent company that makes high quality products. It would definitely be worth looking into.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by semiferal

Definitely, wet food is better than prescription dry food.

Wysong makes a prescription struvite diet and a prescription urinary tract diet. This is an excellent company that makes high quality products. It would definitely be worth looking into.

Semiferal
Do you have a link??

 

[cathyc]

Purina also has a prescription diet line...the one for this problem is called UR. My vet doesn't regularly carry it but has ordered some so I'm going to try it. I have another cat with a liver shunt who is on the Hills k/d diet because he has to have a low protein and low sodium diet. I recently tried him on the Purina NF (kidney diet) and he loves it. It's much more moist than the k/d. I have to add a little water to the k/d because it's so dry. He eats it but I don't think he really likes it that much. Because of this I'm curious how the Purina UR will be. While my homeopathic vet doesn't care for Purina regular cat foods she actually prefers Purina Prescription Diet over Hills. I don't know which is best but if your cat doesn't like the c/d it might be worth trying the UR.

 

[semiferal]

www.wysong.net

I agree that Purina prescription diets are better than Hills overall. The ingredients aren't great but they are generally a lot less scary.