two week old kittens

[ldg]

Oh hun, I'm so sorry. :heart3: Sadly, this is quite common, and it is no reflection of your care.

BTW, when our vet cares for bottle babies, they have a warm towel standing by, but just hold the entire back end of the kitty under warm water running from the faucet. They pee/poop and get cleaned up at the same time.


Rest peacefully, little angel.

 

[feralvr]

hno: Sweetie - I am sorry..... But if not for you, this little kitten would have not known love, kindness, warmth and care . You gave that little one SO much these last few days and even a "special" name. I don't know which one this was, Moe. Larry or Curly :dk:.... But RIP little sweet angel

It is alright :touch: This is just part of the emotional toll on our hearts - rescuing and trying to save kitties.

 

[zeety]

Oh hun, I'm so sorry.

Sadly, this is quite common, and it is no reflection of your care.

BTW, when our vet cares for bottle babies, they have a warm towel standing by, but just hold the entire back end of the kitty under warm water running from the faucet. They pee/poop and get cleaned up at the same time.

Rest peacefully, little angel.

Thanks! I used that method today along with some suggestions Momofmany gave and they are looking much better.

Sweetie - I am sorry..... But if not for you, this little kitten would have not known love, kindness, warmth and care

. You gave that little one SO much these last few days and even a "special" name. I don't know which one this was, Moe. Larry or Curly

.... But RIP

little sweet angel

It is alright

This is just part of the emotional toll on our hearts - rescuing and trying to save kitties.

He would have been Curly since he was the little guy. I think I will give the other two more appropriate names in a few days. The white one with a little grey patch on the top of his head is the big one now and he's also the most feisty and loudest. The grey one can be loud be he doesn't raise cane every time I close a door or make some noise to wake them up.

____________________

It has been a really long and eventful day today. I went to the store and bought some goats milk and a better medicine dropper so I can more accurately measure out how much they are taking each feeding. It has a smaller nozzle than the one I had, and even though it's not a nipple they can pull the formula out on their own instead of me letting it drip in their mouths. The goat's milk isn't MKR (I can't afford it now) but it should be more easily digestible than evaporated milk. Not sure if changing now would be a good idea though. If anyone has thoughts on that I'd like some feedback.

While at the store I ran into my neighbor the "cat hoarder" guy and politely mentioned that I have the kittens. It turns out he doesn't have as many as I thought so I judged him harshly. He said he and his wife feed the ferals and they have five indoor cats. They knew about the pregnant cat and tried to get her inside but never could. So we agreed to work together to trap these homeless cats and get them fixed if possible. I guess I'm just not a cat person (yet) and don't quite understand how strongly people feel about them.

I have also decided that Nov 13th is my babies' official birthday, which means they are one week old today. That means they get twice as much formula per day and feeding intervals are every four hours instead of two. Which is really good because I'm getting a little worn out.

I just did the math on their recommended formula intake and it seems like a lot. If they need 48 ml each day at four hour intervals that is 8 ml each feeding and they don't seem to want near that much. But all the advice I get is that it's better to underfeed them than give too much. I will just have to keep up the vigilant watch and give them less more often if needed. I'm also going to dilute the goat's milk with Pedialite instead of boiled tap water.

Finally, I want to apologize for not replying individually to all of you. Besides being really busy with the babies I'm not really good with figuring out what all these buttons do. I appreciate very much the support you have all given!

 

[feralvr]

Oh hun You don't have to apologize to any of us!!! :lol3: We don't expect a response to every reply, we just want to help and be supportive to wonderful people like you trying to save lives :heart3:..... Sending loads more vibes today for the little ones. And for Curly he is playing freely at the bridge now.... again, so sorry

Great news and how ironic you ran into your neighbor like that :bigthumb:. How fabulous now that you know he is NOT a hoarder and just trying to care for feral cat's. What a relief on your mind now too. Sometimes, things like this are meant to happen, you running into the neighbor in the store and being able to approach and talk with him. Now you can work together to trap these feral cats and get them all sterilized so no more kittens :happy3:

for the kittens today !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zeety]

While looking for info I found this site of a veterinarian who offers an explanation for why feral homeless cats abandon their kittens.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherly love is a very strong bond in domestic cats. So it is quite rare for a well kept momma cat to abandon its offspring. But feral homeless cats have very tough lives. They struggle on the border of starvation, live in un-naturally dense groups and suffer from diseases that pampered house cats never face.[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Often, their first litter arrives when they are little more than kittens themselves. It is quite common for inexperience and the stresses of pregnancy to exhaust them to the point where they become ill and abandon their kittens. [/font]

So yes, there is a point where environment and circumstances can over-ride the strongest of instincts.

 

[zeety]

It seems every day brings something new to deal with. Now they are easily taking 3 - 4 ml of formula all on their own by suckling. I discovered a better feeding method is to hold them on their side in one hand using two fingers to brace their head still while using my thumb and other two fingers to keep their front paws down because they keep trying to knock the medicine dropper away. Then I get a little drip of milk on the end of the nozzle and hold it near the tip so I can control it better, and if I place it just right they will empty it most of the time.

The problem is that even though they are pulling the milk out on their own, they seem to be getting too much at once because sometimes it bubbles out of their nose. And if I pull it away to slow them down it's very difficult to get them started again, or they just won't.

And last night I slept for six hours straight for the first time in days. I don't know if that's because I was so tired I didn't hear them crying or they just ate so well at their last feeding of the night that they weren't as hungry. Plus, when I pulled the white one out of the nest to feed this morning the grey one hardly stirred. Usually they are both immediately up and awake crying and trying to crawl out at the slightest disturbance of the nest. I'm afraid this might be an indication of lethargy because that was sort of what I noticed a day or so before Curly died.

Then again they are eating more than ever. Maybe not as much as "the book" says they should but they certainly are not malnourished. They are eliminating regularly and the poop appears normal. Their nest is clean and not too warm or too cold. They get cleaned after every meal and their coats look awesome. It truly will be a miracle if these babies survive because the odds are so stacked against them.

And they have started trying to nurse on each others' behinds. I'm told not to allow this and to separate them, but I just can't because they are all each other has. They go crazy when I take them away from each other.

Jeeze, I worry too much.

 

[Primula]

Zeety, so sorry about the kitten who passed, but he has gone to a better kitty place. Very interesting what you posted re mothers abandoning their litters. I will keep that in mind in future because there are so many colonies where I live.

Good Luck with your two remaining babies. Seems like you are doing everything right and they seem to be thriving so far.

 

[zeety]

Thank you, Primula. You guy's encouragement makes all the difference in the world

 

[frankthetank]

Are you using a bottle for feeding or just a medicine dropper? In June, my husband and I took in 3 orphaned baby kittens that a friend found and didn't know what to do with. When we took them in, they hadn't eaten properly in a couple days and one was shaking and barely moving.

In my bedroom I have a large bathtub, that I lined w/ blankets and towels and put a heating pad in the corner under a couple blankets. I put that on medium (it has a shut off after 2 hours also) and placed the kittens on it with a couple fuzzy stuffed animals and it kinda gave them something warm to cuddle on/up with to keep their body temps up. Kittens need to be kept warmer then older cats, but I am betting you read that already )

Also about the feeding, if you haven't gotten a kitten bottle, I would recommend it! It makes feeding soooo much easier, especially when they are eating more as they age. I used one bottle for the kittens and had multiple nipples for the bottle that I switched between feedings, and the kitten bottle is labelled w/ oz & such so I could track what each kitten was eating. I also used a food scale to track their weight and made sure they were gaining. As for the stimulating kitties to use the bathroom, I used a washcloth w/ warm water and stimulated over the sink for easy cleanup.

The kitties do get messy but remember they need to stay warm. I wiped them down with a warm washcloth, wrapped them in a warm towel for a few & rubbed their fur dry as much as possible,t hen used a blowdryer on low to dry them (from far away so I didn't scare/burn them) and then returned them to their cozy heating pad/stuffed animal area.

The kittens I had made a ton of noise! If they weren't sleeping, they were crying for milk and to be loved. The benefit of this...I now have the most loving kitten ever. It is so amazing to watch them grow. When I got the kittens, their eyes were still only open a tiny bit...and within days they opened nice & wide, and they started walking versus the little stumbling around they were doing the first day. Within the first week I moved them to my large open closet and used a baby gate to keep them in/other cats out...until after another week and a half they learned to climb the gate and jump out when they were hungry! I had to set alarms at night to feed them every 3 hours, and I work from home so I was able to feed them often during the day too.

I lost one of my little kittens at 5 weeks. The vet didn't really have an explanation but at 3.5 weeks I had rushed this kitten to the vet because he was lethargic, not eating, not using the bathroom and just sickly, and after being dewormed he perked up for a few days but then got sick again...it was horrible and I still get sad thinking about the little guy but I try to remember that it does happen and I did the very best I could raising the babies.

A friend of mine adopted the little girl kitten when she was 9weeks old and I still have the other one. He is the sweetest kitten and is so big and fluffy. He sleeps on my pillow at night, purrs constantly and SO loud, and follows my husband and I around. He is never very far from us, and is a total lap kitty. Bottle feeding a kitten is a great bonding experience, and even the kitten my friend had that I bottle fed is super loving w/ her new family.

I am certainly no expert on bottle feeding baby kittens but if you have any questions feel free to send me a message! Good luck & you are awesome for taking these babies in and caring for them!

 

[zeety]

Are you using a bottle for feeding or just a medicine dropper? In June, my husband and I took in 3 orphaned baby kittens that a friend found and didn't know what to do with. When we took them in, they hadn't eaten properly in a couple days and one was shaking and barely moving.

In my bedroom I have a large bathtub, that I lined w/ blankets and towels and put a heating pad in the corner under a couple blankets. I put that on medium (it has a shut off after 2 hours also) and placed the kittens on it with a couple fuzzy stuffed animals and it kinda gave them something warm to cuddle on/up with to keep their body temps up. Kittens need to be kept warmer then older cats, but I am betting you read that already )

Also about the feeding, if you haven't gotten a kitten bottle, I would recommend it! It makes feeding soooo much easier, especially when they are eating more as they age. I used one bottle for the kittens and had multiple nipples for the bottle that I switched between feedings, and the kitten bottle is labelled w/ oz & such so I could track what each kitten was eating. I also used a food scale to track their weight and made sure they were gaining. As for the stimulating kitties to use the bathroom, I used a washcloth w/ warm water and stimulated over the sink for easy cleanup.

The kitties do get messy but remember they need to stay warm. I wiped them down with a warm washcloth, wrapped them in a warm towel for a few & rubbed their fur dry as much as possible,t hen used a blowdryer on low to dry them (from far away so I didn't scare/burn them) and then returned them to their cozy heating pad/stuffed animal area.

The kittens I had made a ton of noise! If they weren't sleeping, they were crying for milk and to be loved. The benefit of this...I now have the most loving kitten ever. It is so amazing to watch them grow. When I got the kittens, their eyes were still only open a tiny bit...and within days they opened nice & wide, and they started walking versus the little stumbling around they were doing the first day. Within the first week I moved them to my large open closet and used a baby gate to keep them in/other cats out...until after another week and a half they learned to climb the gate and jump out when they were hungry! I had to set alarms at night to feed them every 3 hours, and I work from home so I was able to feed them often during the day too.

I lost one of my little kittens at 5 weeks. The vet didn't really have an explanation but at 3.5 weeks I had rushed this kitten to the vet because he was lethargic, not eating, not using the bathroom and just sickly, and after being dewormed he perked up for a few days but then got sick again...it was horrible and I still get sad thinking about the little guy but I try to remember that it does happen and I did the very best I could raising the babies.

A friend of mine adopted the little girl kitten when she was 9weeks old and I still have the other one. He is the sweetest kitten and is so big and fluffy. He sleeps on my pillow at night, purrs constantly and SO loud, and follows my husband and I around. He is never very far from us, and is a total lap kitty. Bottle feeding a kitten is a great bonding experience, and even the kitten my friend had that I bottle fed is super loving w/ her new family.

I am certainly no expert on bottle feeding baby kittens but if you have any questions feel free to send me a message! Good luck & you are awesome for taking these babies in and caring for them!

Yes I'm using a medicine dropper because unfortunately my situation is that I can't even afford a few dollars for a real bottle. Next week is payday and I will definitely be getting some supplies from the pet store. Other than that I'm doing all the things you suggested thanks to the wonderful people here at TCS who have schooled me!

Just to recap: I found these babies (a litter of three) in my back yard last week. I guessed at the time they were about two weeks old but boy was I way off, they were more like 1 - 3 days old then. I could barely get them to take 2 ml of milk at one feeding. That gradually got better except for the "runt" who never looked well. Bless his little heart, he died Sunday morning.

The survivors are nine days old today and their eyes are still closed of course. I just fed them and they both took 6 - 7 ml of milk, which is about right if fed every three to four hours. Using the medicine dropper method is a very tedious task but I have developed an adequate technique, it just takes time and patience. I know soon the amount of milk they require will demand a real bottle that holds enough that they can feed all they want at once because interrupting for refills makes the job so much more difficult.

The nest is a cardboard box with a few layers of Kashmir lap blankets and a heating pad underneath. I keep the pad on low or medium depending on the outside temps because my apt is a little drafty, and it's only on one side of the box so if it's too warm they can move away to the cooler side. But they always sleep on the warm side even if placed on the cool side.

They get a bath with a warm washcloth after each feeding and are eliminating okay as far as I can tell. They look and act better and better with each new day and, in fact, are sleeping much better the last couple days after I changed to a 50/50 mix of goat's milk and Pedialyte from evaporated milk and boiled tap water. I know they need KMR but again, finances dictate what I can do in that department.

I feel they are doing quite well, but as I have learned from experiences of my own and those of people like you, abandoned and homeless feral kittens have a very high mortality rate. It is heartbreaking when they pass away, but frankly I can't spend too much time mourning the precious little furbaby (Curly was his name) who didn't make it because I still have to be thinking about his surviving siblings.

Thank you for your reply

 

[zeety]

Couple of quick updates: A really wonderful cat loving person has offered to send some KMR and kitten bottles. Thank you

And the oldest baby, the white one, is just beginning to open his eyes!

 

[feralvr]

How wonderful that a special person is sending you some KMR supplies..... :heart3: You are doing a great job under the circumstances with these babies. . Bless you for all that you are doing for them, they are very, very lucky to have you :heart3: that they continue to thrive and be healthy, happy kittens

 

[zeety]

Feralvr, I definitely intend to keep these babies. This just all caught me unprepared financially because I live paycheck to paycheck, but I can and will provide for them if I budget it right.

I'm also a bit out of practice because I haven't owned a cat in 26 years. The last one I had was a stray kitten I adopted and raised from about eight weeks old and had for three years before I lost him. I really loved that little guy and it had a huge impact on me. I suppose I should have got right back on the horse and got another one...but I never did.

Right now I'm sort of taking a detached, clinical approach to caring for them because I feel like they could go at any time. Other than feeding and cleaning they mostly stay in the nest sleeping. I have been advised not to handle them too much because they need all the rest they can get right now. But I look in on them all day and they are doing the cute little things kittens typically do. And I burp them like a baby and they snuggle up on my neck and try to nurse on my ear and sometimes I'm sure I hear them starting to purr.

I'm going to get attached to them and there's nothing I can do. Nobody is taking my babies away from me.

 

[ldg]

LOL, just awwwwwwww. :heart3: I thought I remembered you saying earlier in the thread you wanted to keep them, but didn't remember.

I was going to ask about the budget. Cats certainly don't need to cost an arm and a leg, but it can add up! Especially if they need medical care at any point. Best to get a relationship going with a vet now, even if just a chat. Some of us pay what we can when we can at the vet and build up a credit, so it's there when we need it. :nod: Definitely worth finding one to chat with this about now.

 

[feralvr]

Feralvr, I definitely intend to keep these babies. This just all caught me unprepared financially because I live paycheck to paycheck, but I can and will provide for them if I budget it right>

:doh3: I know.... Sorry.... I read back through the thread and saw the part about you keeping them and they needing you as much as you need them. :heart3: I do know how much these little angels mean to you, and no one will take them from you, they are your little furbabies :lol3:.

 

[ldg]

How are the babies doing today? :cross:

 

[mrblanche]

Another reason for kittens found in odd places is that the mother sometimes moves them in stages to a new location. She can't count, so she depends on them making noise when she calls them.  If she should get distracted (chased by a dog or a human, for example), she may forget where she was in the move.

 

[zeety]

Sleeping now, thank goodness, but they have been fussy all day because of colic/constipation. I took them to a nearby animal clinic and even though I couldn't pay to have them properly examined the lady said it's likely that the medicine dropper I'm using to feed them is introducing way too much air, so they basically have gas. Larry did poop today and when I stimulate him he farts and the stool is sort of pasty. But I can't get Mo to eliminate at all. They told me it's not really a problem until they don't poop for 48 hours, at that point they should have an enema. So I'm holding their bottoms under warm water and rubbing their bellies in addition to the cotton swab method of stimulating their butts. Have to be careful there too because too much will irritate the skin and give them a rash.

Other than that they are okay. They are not dehydrated and their appetites are good. They aren't lethargic or anything, their appearance looks great. What they want more than anything is just to be held. I was letting them sit mostly in the nest because I was told to let them sleep as much as possible and not to disturb them. But now someone else told me they need contact and, indeed it does calm them down when I hold them. I just can't do it all the time. I'm told you can make a little pouch to carry them around with you to keep them warm so they can feel you breathing and hear your heart beating and that helps a lot too. I'm going to see about making one.

 

[ldg]

Aw, I'm so glad you took them to the clinic and got an opinion and some information. :nod: :heart3:

Vibes little Mo poops soon!

Did you have them sexed?

As for a sling... what about a shawl? Tie two diagonal corners together, and sling it under your arm and around your neck? :dk:

 

[zeety]

Yup, according to this Larry, the white one whose eyes are about 50% open now is a boy. And Mo, the grey one who is really quiet is a girl.

What I want in a sling is something that is loose enough they can breathe okay but still can't crawl out of. When I hold them they always try to crawl up to my shoulder and around the back of my neck and I'm afraid they will fall. As little as they are they can scamper around and climb pretty good already and get away before I have a chance to grab them. If I were busy doing something and had my hands full I'd want to be sure they can't get away. So I need something I can sort of seal up to make sure they don't crawl out.