Tom ignores the queen

[tokyoveronica]

I have a 3yr old persian cat named Raffy (female) and a 17 month old tom of the same breed named Blue.I was just wondering why Blue doesnt show interest in Raffy even if shes in heat. Blue sometimes follow her around the house though,sniffing her and smelling each other and they get plenty of privacy.They get along just fine and play alot. Mostly at night. Is Blue's age not mature enough for breeding?

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• tokyoveronica
• Oct 7, 2012

here they are.Blue (left) Raffy (right)

 

[StefanZ]

It may be so he isnt mature yet. Persians tends to mature late.

But there are also several other possible reasons.

She may be the alpha here, so he doesnt even dare to think about it...

They live together, yes?  It is quite common studs living together with queens dont "ignite" on them.  It is of course no safe prevention method, if you dont want nothing at all to happen. But it is fairly common.

The solution in such cases is to have them in a special room for themselves, a mating room.

Essentially empty room. Some places they can flee to if necessary. Food,  beds, litter, a couple of toys, but not too much. Scratching post. So they must be with each other - and understand this is something especial ongoing...Something is supposed to happen here.   This is the trick in such cases.

You can also give them both extra E-vitamin.  Works often with females who dont get in heat, but prob should work with studs too. Cant hurt either.

Their chemistry is perhaps not  good for each other...  Happens.  In such cases the only to do is to try some other combination. Say  lend studs with some other breeder.

You can perhaps try to let him meet a friendly, experienced female, who is known to lay down in the position almost immediately.  So he can have someone to get some experience with.

Welcome to our Forums!

Good luck!

 

[missymotus]

Are they papered with breeding rights? As they're not show/breeding quality

Agree with above on keeping them apart and only bringing together when she's in heat.
He should be old enough but some take until they're over 2 in long haired breeds

 

[p3 and the king]

Persian males are notorious late bloomers.  Sometimes not reaching sexual maturity and readiness until the age of 3 years or older.  That is why most seasoned breeders recommend getting a male first and waiting until he is almost or at the age of 3 before getting a female.  Did your breeders not know you were going into breeding?  They should have told you?  Make sure you have breeding rights and find a mentor is my best advice.  You may need to spay your female and wait until you male is ready and then get another female to breed him to.  Breeders do not recommend letting a female have so many heats before breeding.  It can increase chances of pyrometra (sp?).  If you do not wish to breed him to another female or wait that long, I would recommend neutering him, too.  First of all you need to be sure you have breeding rights... IF not, you cannot sale the kittens as Persians legally because you cannot paper them.  And they are not breeding quality so I would not recommend their breeder as a mentor if they did give you breeding rights.  I would find one with more knowledge and responsibility with  their cats.

 

[orientalslave]

Three strikes me as old for a first litter, and agree that unless they are registered and you can register any kittens it would be best to neuter and start over.

 

[tokyoveronica]

oh well we bought the female in a pet shop (with papers) we didnt really intend to have her breed. We assumed she's lonely and have no one to play with so we bought another one (from the same pet shop) which is the male (hes really darn cute). After some time we just wondered why they dont "do it".

 

[orientalslave]

Feel that the best thing would be to get both of them neutered.  When he reaches maturity he will have horrible-smelling pee, and might spray, and leaving her unneutered is leaving her at risk of pyometra - infection in the uterus which is often fatal.  Because she's had quite a few calls neutering won't reduce the risk of breast cancer in the way it would for a female that has never called, but it will still benefit her.

Also I don't know about the US, but a cat in the UK can have papers and not be on the active register e.g. it's kittens cannot be registered.  And I'm not sure I would trust pet shop papers...

 

[tokyoveronica]

thanks for all your replies iv learned alot

 

[missymotus]

What sort of papers?

They need to be registered, with a pedigree with CFA, TICA or ACFA in the US

Since these don't even look like pet quality Persians and pet shops are the worst place to buy a pet, they are very likely just domestics

 

[jennyr]

I have to agree. They are beautiful intelligent cats, judging by the photo, but since you didn't intend to breed to start with, I would go back to that. Even if you get them to breed, you have no idea what the kittens would be like, and having kittens is a lot more expensive than getting the cats neutered. Enjoy your lovely pair of kitties without the stress and worry of trying to have a litter.

 

[p3 and the king]

Persians are a breed that you don't normally find a good breeding or showing kitten in pet shops with.  Nor any breed for that matter.  They are typicaly from back yard breeders or kitty mills (just like puppy mills) and haven't been given the most care.  So the queens are overbred and the breedings are not planned out carefully to ensure a certain look... It's more quantity over quality.  I would have your kitties fixed if I were you.  They are beautiful but not very good Persians as far as the face goes.  And you probably don't have breeding rights.  I can't see a pet shop even doing that?  But I could be wrong.  However even if you do have breeding rights, it is best to have them fixed anyway...Breeding is a very difficult and costly thing when done right.  And you don't want to further the homeless pet or overcrowded shelter problem we all have.

 

[missymotus]

.Breeding is a very difficult and costly thing when done right.

Yes it is, there's also health tests to be done. PKD being one thing Persian breeders test for

 

[p3 and the king]

Yes it is, there's also health tests to be done. PKD being one thing Persian breeders test for

Yes there is that, too... BUT, the big thing many breeders or people don't tell you is that Persian queens often have to have a vet do a c-section to deliver the kittens.  Persian kittens have bigger heads and can tear and even kill the queen if it is attempted to deliver naturally.  So, your vet would have to be very involved in the breeding, pregnancy, & especially delivery... Breeding Persians can be more costly than any other breed just to be able to keep momma and babies alive.  You really need to think about this before doing it... I would just have them both fixed BEFORE they "do it."

 

[StefanZ]

The discussion about pet quality or decent quality, good papers or just barely OK papers... Or even faked papers, isnt perhaps even dont really necessary here.

Far from all owners of good quality purebreds use them for breeding. Even if they do have papers and the original breeder = seller, doesnt mind.   Most do get neutered sooner or later, and live out their lives as happy family pets.

This taking as example from Sweden, where we traditionally tend to neuter rather late, about 6-12 months. etc.

(What perhaps happens, if the tom is of good quality, we perhaps try let him sire once or twice or thrice before neutering. To make the stud base broader, to have a wider genetic pool.  so the breeders and owners of queens always have several feasible studs to choose among.)

I mean, if you TS have firmly decided to have kittens after them, had thought through everything, etc etc, them healthy and sound, your vet agrees.  Fine.  Do it.

There is some demand for well socialized home raised kittens.  Some people are afraid of adopting an ex homeless or kittens from a ex homeless. Not as their first cat at least.  Perhaps second or third cat, but not first.  You will also be an OK alternative till pet shop sellers.

But as it seems you arent really anxious to breed, the best here IS to neuter them, and let them be happy family pets.  Like Im sure they already are.  But spayed they will be even happier.  

It is no "must" to breed, only because you do have a female and male, and they are purebreed with papers.   Most owners dont do it anyway.

If you or your children wants to follow the development of small kittens, there are other options.

Good luck!

 

[p3 and the king]

The discussion about pet quality or decent quality, good papers or just barely OK papers... Or even faked papers, isnt perhaps even dont really necessary here.

Far from all owners of good quality purebreds use them for breeding. Even if they do have papers and the original breeder = seller, doesnt mind.   Most do get neutered sooner or later, and live out their lives as happy family pets.

This taking as example from Sweden, where we traditionally tend to neuter rather late, about 6-12 months. etc.

(What perhaps happens, if the tom is of good quality, we perhaps try let him sire once or twice or thrice before neutering. To make the stud base broader, to have a wider genetic pool.  so the breeders and owners of queens always have several feasible studs to choose among.)

I mean, if you TS have firmly decided to have kittens after them, had thought through everything, etc etc, them healthy and sound, your vet agrees.  Fine.  Do it.

There is some demand for well socialized home raised kittens.  Some people are afraid of adopting an ex homeless or kittens from a ex homeless. Not as their first cat at least.  Perhaps second or third cat, but not first.  You will also be an OK alternative till pet shop sellers.

But as it seems you arent really anxious to breed, the best here IS to neuter them, and let them be happy family pets.  Like Im sure they already are.  But spayed they will be even happier.  

It is no "must" to breed, only because you do have a female and male, and they are purebreed with papers.   Most owners dont do it anyway.

If you or your children wants to follow the development of small kittens, there are other options.

Good luck!

OK I am sorry but your post made no sense to me.  What are you talking about?  The post isn't about not breeding because they aren't "breeding quality"... This is about the fact that the poster isn't aware of all of the possible complications of breeding Persians.  Not only that, there is an unwanted and homeless pet epidemic all over the world.  If people breed without knowing what they are really doing, and to "have a litter of cute kittens" , it takes business away from not only good and knowledgable breeders that want to FURTHER their breeds, but shelters. 

The information I gave was from actual good breeders of the Persian breed.  She has no idea what she needs to consider before breeding Persians.  She needs to know.  Also, other breeders are just trying to explain their approach to breeding so that she and others know that this isn't for the faint hearted.  You need to know what you are doing and you need to be prepared before you let them mate.

 

[StefanZ]

OK I am sorry but your post made no sense to me. 

Long  reasoning posts are not always easy to follow.    

Please read this post above again, slow and thoroughly.

Bear also in mind, english is my third language, so my words dont always fall so clear cut as could be possible with a first rate native speaker.

 

[orientalslave]

Long posts written by someone whose first language is not English are not always easy to follow. 

Make no mistake, I am a monoglot, your English is very good, I am full of admiration for it and have absolutely no chance of even remotely approaching that level of skill with a foreign language.

However it's still 'strange' in places.

 

[missymotus]

Persian kittens have bigger heads and can tear and even kill the queen if it is attempted to deliver naturally.

The Persian breeders I know rarely have c-sections, and no more than any other breed. Many breeding for a number of years haven't had any sections

Perhaps it's geographical or line related

 

[p3 and the king]

The Persian breeders I know rarely have c-sections, and no more than any other breed. Many breeding for a number of years haven't had any sections
Perhaps it's geographical or line related

Well, I got my information from 4 Persian breeders I know personally & a site dedicated to Persians.  I was just passing on the information given by people who are dedicated to the Persian breed exclusively.  You can argue and say I am wrong but you might want to take it up with them and not me.  As I am not a breeder. 

 

[missymotus]

Well, I got my information from 4 Persian breeders I know personally & a site dedicated to Persians.  I was just passing on the information given by people who are dedicated to the Persian breed exclusively.  You can argue and say I am wrong but you might want to take it up with them and not me.  As I am not a breeder. 

Didn't say you were wrong it could be with the ones you know, just pointing out that all the Persian breeders I know, who are dedicated and breed them exclusively, having bred for many years haven't experienced the same. As I said perhaps it's region or line related.