To buddy or not to buddy...

[arcticcat907]

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To buddy or not to buddy.So as anyone who’s been following my threads know, May 30^th I acquired a new cat. Katherine; a lovely short haired tabby tortie. The said she was about 1 years old, and we were the third owner. She was basically a kitten. While not super small, she wasn’t full blown cat size either. From a personality stand point she’s very much a mouser. More so than I remember the cats I had as a kid 15 years ago were. She loves to chase a mousie. I think given her choice she’d spend all day chasing things and mousing. She’s a very adventurous, hunter, kind of cat. Who since we got her is now full blown cat size. We left for a funeral for 4 days in July and while we were away her size exploded to cat size.
 

Anyways, about 4 days after getting Katherine we got another cat named Anita, who was a 5 year old Siamese. Anita on her own was a VERY loving cat. Not much for playing or mousing. She just wanted to sit on your lap and be stroked all day. She’d love to be loved all day. Great for an adult only home with just Anita.

In a way though, this was the problem. Katherine is a little ball of energy, and a hunter. Anita is a lounge about lover. When something scares Katherine, she gets big and puffy and growls. But she doesn’t back down. The pizza guy is on notice. Anita on the other hand will run under a bed and spend her life with her paws over her ears. It became a problem. We tried to keep the cats apart and all Katherine did was cause fights. She’d wait outside the door Anita was in, she’d run in the moment she had an opening. She’d chase anita under the bed and sometimes go in after her. Katherine was always the aggressor. On top of that, Anita wasn’t a very clean cat. She had a problem keeping things in the litter box and off the carpet. It was stressful to cats and people. After about a month, Anita went back and Katherine’s been alone ever since.

Well now KTVA has put out this http://www.ktva.com/meet-molly-mabel-this-weeks-daybreak-adopt-a-pets-718/ article. Female cats, around Katherine’s age. Both are reported to be shy and skittish which would be a problem to my hunter killer Katherine. At the same time though, being around Katherine’s age they are potentially little bundles of energy. And Katherine is increasingly bored and increasingly wanting to play once the house goes dark. M<y mother also really likes orange cats and these two cost what Katherine did by her self. Is it worth trying to push the fight past my parents? Or just hey, cool, cats for sale, and move on?  

 

[red top rescue]

NO.

I would say definitely pass on these kittens.  For one thing, they are female, and females are territorial by nature.  In the wild, the females hold the turf and the males go from place to place to court the females.  Katherine owns the territory now, and I don't think she will accept another female.  Also the disposition of these kittens is like Anita's disposition and they would feel persecuted.  I have been in rescue and housed multiple cats together over the years and have observed that it's always the boys who form pair bonds with each other.  The girls may bond with their female siblings and their mothers, but they are not generally receptive to other females, young or old.

I'm very glad you returned Anita because she had two strikes against her to start with, and it sounds like she was a wonderful cat in a very sad situation for her.  First, she was a timid cat by nature, and a cat who feels persecuted will often poop outside the box.  If the threat is removed, they will use the box again.  Hopefully she has found a home that suits her better. She was Siamese, and in my experience Siamese are often just a "different species" to non-Siamese cats.  That made her even more of a target for Katherine. 

If you are determined to get a buddy for Katherine, I would suggest you get a male who is older and was neutered later in life, you know, one of those toms with a great big head and tattered ears who has known the wars of mating in the past, a gentle giant with a good disposition and not a scaredy cat.  I have two of these here at the moment and they are best buddies with each other.  However, one of them is definitely dominant and the King, and he owns the girls (all spayed of course), washes their heads and then sits up in a defensive posture if they swat at him.  Despite being neutered, he has actually bred a foster female who was here with kittens and escaped the rescue room because she went into heat.  He remembered what to do even though it had been 3 years.  Female cats who have just been bred often turn on the male and get aggressive for a few minutes before falling down and rolling on the floor, and the males learn how to deflect this.  With proper introductions, it is possible Katherine could become friends with an older boy.  If you were to get a kitten, I would suggest TWO kittens, both MALE, so they play with each other at first and she can watch them from a safe enclosure, like a crate in the room.  Older cats react much better to kittens that come in pairs.

Since you are dealing with parents in this experiment, I suggest you do not try to get another cat but find some toys to wear her out like my favorite "DaBird" which will exercise any hunter.  A few sessions with DaBird will make her sleep like a baby.

 

 

[arcticcat907]

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Well like the anita thing. She didn’t poop outside the box. But like with Katherine if you turn off the light while she’s using the box or walk by the box, Katherine just does her thing very relaxed. Anita was in mid use of the box and I walked by the door of the bathroom, scared anita and she got it all over the floor. It was aweful. Worst part is when we gave anita back, she went back to her cat sanctuary. The sanctuary wrote back and asked what the problem was so we told them the two cats were getting along. They sent a picture back of anita in a cat tree by other cats and the sanctuary and said they didn’t know what the problem was. Sorry it didn’t work out.  

 

[red top rescue]

You should write them back and let them know poor Anita was not the problem, Katherine just would not have her.  It would help them to know that she is a timid cat when faced with a very aggressive cat, and she just needs a home with no other cats or cats who are already known to be non-aggressive.  It would help them if you shared your whole story so they see Anita was returned for her own good.  I'm sure they would appreciate seeing the whole dialogue that went on.

 

[arcticcat907]

i'm sure you're right. this all happened months ago. at the time my mother was the point of contact between the sanctuary who inquired, and us. as far as i know she explained things, but i have no real idea what actually was said. hopefully anita has a better home now. in the mean time, Katherine may just have to accept being bored and by herself.

 

[catwoman707]

I agree, no more females. Katherine is queen of the house now and that's that! A female coming in will bring out her worst behavior, she will make it known who wears the crown, and make the other girl feel very intimidated.

If you got another girl who was also an alpha cat, it's a war and can last for years! Trust me on that one..................

A strong personality male as red top said is the only way to give Katherine a buddy.

 

[recomper]

Hey Red Top Rescue. Does it need to be a strong personality male? Can it be in the middle, not timid but not too assertive?

And also, why older cats react better to kitten pairs?

 

[red top rescue]

If you get a male who is not a strong personality, Katherine is going to test him which will be unpleasant for him if he is at all uncertain.  His personality does not need to be aggressive, but strong, grounded and CALM.  If a female comes at him, he doesn't fight back, he doesn't run, but he sits up on his hind legs and holds his paws out in front of himself as defense, OR if he is sniffing her butt and she turns around and goes at him, he will set the world's back jump record and remove himself from range while keeping his eye on the girl.  If he is calm, she will actually absorb some of that calm herself.

Think of it in human terms, older man (not OLD but experienced and sure of himself), younger woman.  Mostly he's sweet to her, but when she has a hissy fit, he just stays out of the way.  He doesn't fight back, he doesn't run away.  He doesn't try to fix it, he just lets it run its course.  She will calm down a lot faster.  Younger less experienced men will argue or try to fix it and that makes her worse.  Trust me, I'm a grandmother, I've seen this in human many times.  Calm elicits calm.  Flight or flight elicits more attacks.

Older cats react to kitten pairs better because the kittens  by nature are focused on other cats, their mothers, yes, but most of all their siblings.  Kittens want to play and sometimes play too rough.  Their siblings let out a screech and that shows them oops, that was too much.  They learn how not to bite too hard by playing with their siblings.  They get security from their siblings too because that's what they have grown up with.  Kittens who are not siblings but are the same age make friends with each other quickly, unlike older cats.  If you have a young kitten who has suddenly lost his mother and siblings and you have another cat, that kitten is going to bug that adult cat.  He will pounce on a twitching tail or run towards or away from the other cat to invite a game of chase.  If that other cat has not been socialized with other cats and their ways, he or she can get upset, annoyed and angry at the kittens.  This is not a great way to start a relationship.  However, if you have two kittens playing with each other, the adult usually sits up high where the kittens cannot easily reach and watches the play while staying safely out of reach.  As time goes by, if the adult is young and playful, he or she may join in the fun later.  By then the fear has gone so chase is for fun and not scary.  If the older cat is a lot older, he or she can remain aloof from the kittens forever.  The kittens will have each other so will not bother her. 

I have told this to many friends, and many have listened and been happy.  A few have wanted to add one little kitten to a home with the adult cat and found the kitten to be lonely and wanting feline attention and the adult to be always up on things, or hissing at the kitten that chases after the adult when he or she comes down to eat or use the litter.  In the two instances I am thinking of, each of my friends went out and got another kitten within two weeks of getting the first one and peace returned to the house.

They said, "OK you were right, you told me so."

 

[StefanZ]

Yeah, its a not unusual example; female cats whom do hate other cats / cant put up with other cats,   after a while it clears: what they really cant put up with, is other female cats.

But, they DO have a male cat friend...

So if you do try with another cat, let it be a male.  Not necessariy any dominant male, but a experienced, healthy male without issues...

Btw, reminds me of a good stud too... That is another example...  Beleguering, waiting out,  courting where needed.  No violences although he is twice as big.  And when they are done, they become good friends.

 

[recomper]

Ty Red top rescue. That was a detailed and great explanation. 

 

[feralvr]

, Katherine may just have to accept being bored and by herself.

Not to Buddy....... IMO..... Personally, since I was involved with your original thread involving Katherine and Anita - I think Katherine is best as an only cat. You mentioned at one point that someday you may move out of your parent's house? I think then it would be the time for you to consider another cat. Too many heavy expectations were on board with Anita and Katherine by all of your family members. Any cat you bring in may and most likely have some other issues that will not be accepted by your whole family as before. It could potentially be even more so than Anita. Anyway - I just had to chime in here and put in my :2cts: Good luck with whatever you do decide.

 

[merlin2000]

My three female cats are getting along fine .

Tallulah is four , Tippi is two and Ruby is nine month old , I don't see any territorial behaviour or much aggression , all three of them sit with me and pretty much rub along nicely together.

Tallulah was a little aloof when Ruby first arrived but now she is fine with her.

I didn't know that she cats are not supposed to get along until I started reading some of the problems on the site.

I feel really lucky that my girls are friendly towards each other , I just give them plenty of love and don't stress myself out if they hiss and spit at each other on occasion.

I understand my situation might be unique and not the norm , but I love my she cat family

 

 

[red top rescue]

My she cats are not related, all were dumped here or brought here complete with babies nursing.  Fortunately 3 of the moms were related so I put them in the rescue room, which is basically what would be the master bedroom in any normal human family -- its the biggest, has a hall with 2 closets and then a big bathroom.  The three moms had been surrendered from the same home and I believe they were sisters or cousins, but one came here direct, the other I puled from animal control, and those were the ones that got sick of course.  It took a few days to get them out and that was long enough to get exposed.  They were not vaccinated and came down with a URI shortly after coming here.  One got so sick she refused to feed her babies.  She would hiss and swat them and climb up on something and the poor little suckers were just 2 weeks old.  I had to separate them from their mom and from the other mom who would have taken them, but she was nursing 6 of her own and she never quit no matter how sick she got.  Everyone came through it eventually but I never want to have a nursing job like that again, 3 sick mamas and 18 sick babies, and 6 of those I had to bottle feed for about a week until mama got better, then she decided she wanted them back, which was fine with me!  Sorry, I'm rambling, getting sleepy, need to get off the computer, go dig boxes and medicate the two cats on meds, and then --- oh, I want to go to bed but need to fix the leak in the matterss first.  It's a water bed.  This hole was patched months ago but the patch has worked its way off, I forgot.  Now to go find the patch kit.  Anyhow, my she cats get along with their daughters (and sons) and pretty well with each other (the related ones) but they are not chummy with their sisters and they each prefer having an area of their own.  They clearly claim it.  My other females WILL clash with them, and will run them and their sons (now 2 years old) off the bed, so they dont go on it it the old white cat is on the bed.  The boys, on the other hand, are buddies and don't fight amongst each other at all.

The general advice i=for buddies is (1) male/male, (2) male/female and unless they are raised together, we discourage female/female unless they already have a pair bond because they were raised together or hung out in the shelter togeether, and then they go into the home at the same time so there is no existing female holding the territory.  It's not that female/female can't work, it just has the most chance of not working so we discourage it.

 

[red top rescue]

 
Ty Red top rescue. That was a detailed and great explanation. 

Thank you!

 

[arcticcat907]

Feralvr no problem. I always appreciate the advice. So far the ruling has been no body. i wish she had one sometimes because she wants to play ALL THE TIME, but life is what it is. And honestly it's okay. She's still young and while she's smart and sweet she is strong willing and frankly has some behavioral problems of her own. Katherine is very confident about nipping people and taking swipes when she's at all unhappy. So we're still working on letting ehr know the difference between play time, and not play time.

 

[lykakitty]

I just wanted to post here letting you know that, in my experience at least, not everything that's been said here is necessarily true. I have no doubt that the problems people have had with mixing females or kittens and older cats can happen but among the 5, soon to be 6, cats I've had in my life I've never had these types of problems. All but 1 of the 5 have been female and 3 of those 4 girls were/are very dominant and territorial females who lived in peace together for years and years. As far as ages go I've never gotten a pair of kittens and they've been everywhere from a year to 7 years apart with very little problems. One of my girls even lost her mother and entire litter very, very young and didn't bother the adults enough to cause real problems. She got the occasional swat and hiss but that's no big deal.
I'm not saying that you won't have any problems if you get another territorial female or one young kitten but I do want to let you know that it can be done.
Good luck with your kitty! My baby I just lost was a tortie, so I know how you feel. They're feisty little things.