#tiki #catfood Now Contains #toxic #mendione #bisulfate #syntheticvitamink

[remmiebrandt]

So as we all know - mendione - known by its many names that cheap foods try to hide it under - synthetic vitamin k and bisulfate - is now being added to Tiki brand canned cat foods. How very disappointing. But despite the fact that they are now adding this poisonous, cancer inducing toxin to its food - it still charges a premium price for food that induces a myriad of illnesses to our pets. When I emailed them, their response is to blame it on the AAFCO which increased its requirements. AAFCO needs a kick in the pants - they're as bad as all the toxic ingredients the FDA allows in people food - that smarter European nations have banned - including the use of mendione bisulfate - MBS - . Shame on you Tiki.

 

[Mer.kitten]

I just went shopping and bought some Tiki-my kitty loves it. I just got her a couple weeks ago so we’re trying all different kinds.

So is the consensus that we shouldnt feed Tiki at all?

 

[MeganLLB]

My cats love Tiki Cat. There's a Tiki Dog too that I wanted to try.
How bad is it? Is it like the carrageenan thing? Like they say it's bad, but like I'm probs still going to get stuff with it anyway.

 

[-Mia-]

Is it in ALL Tiki cat foods?

I don't really know enough about this. The only thing I know is that Tiki Cat has been touted as such a great brand, so if they are indeed changing for the worse, that is sad!

 

[EmmiTemmi]

What's so bad about menadione bisulfate? It's a synthetic version of vitamin K, which is a necessary nutrient in foods for cats, yes? And since natural vitK can lose potency during processing it's a good alternative, is how I understand it. And so since small amounts of menadione aren't toxic, that's why they're used...

 

[Neo_23]

This is a good article on it: A Pet Food Ingredient to be Wary of: Menadione Sodium Bisulfate

 

[EmmiTemmi]

Neo_23 Yeah, that was the first article I saw when I googled it, but it says it's "highly toxic in high doses" but the article doesn't state what a 'high dose' is. Heck, water is bad in high doses! In order to form an educated opinion on the compound I need a number to go by. I have seen the FDA stance on it in human food, so I am wary of it, but I'm still searching for a food science journal article to give me a finite amount for the 'toxic' effect. Do you have any articles that indicate that?

 

[Neo_23]

I don’t think there is a specific number or amount at which it’s deemed unsafe. It seems that there is evidence that prolonged exposure can be potentially harmful.

Honestly, Tiki Cat is an overpriced can food that’s not that great anyway in my opinion. Not worth the risk. You can get some high quality commercial raw for the price of Tiki Cat. And there are far better canned food options out there.

 

[EmmiTemmi]

Did a little more research on Menadione and MSB and saw this quote "Menadione Is used as a source of vitamin K in the treatment of hypoprothrombinemia against vitamin K deficiency. It is not used directly as a nutritional supplement due to high toxicity and low stability. Menadione sodium bisulfite (MSB) is a water-soluble derivative of menadione for feed." from MENADIONE (Vitamin K3)

And this quote "When used in larger doses, menadione can be toxic. However, in trace amounts, like those used in a commercial dog food recipe, menadione is probably safe." from The Controversy Over Menadione in Dog Food (The bold is from the article, not me)

So these sources make it seem like it's not the absolute end of the world to have these in the ingredient deck of a pet food. Although the 2nd source does recommend rotating foods, which I definitely agree with, to obtain a rounded diet and not be exposed to too much of the same ingredients that are bad in large doses.

I also agree with Neo_23 that Tiki isn't the best anyway. But I absolutely dislike people demonizing pet food companies for using certain ingredients. If an ingredient was awful for animals, the company wouldn't use it. As awful as this sounds, companies need their consumer's pets to stay alive so they continue to buy their products. If a product killed pets or slowly killed pets the brand would lose reputation and go bankrupt, and they don't want to do that. Pet food companies want to keep your pets alive!

 

[Neo_23]

Did a little more research on Menadione and MSB and saw this quote "Menadione Is used as a source of vitamin K in the treatment of hypoprothrombinemia against vitamin K deficiency. It is not used directly as a nutritional supplement due to high toxicity and low stability. Menadione sodium bisulfite (MSB) is a water-soluble derivative of menadione for feed." from MENADIONE (Vitamin K3)

And this quote "When used in larger doses, menadione can be toxic. However, in trace amounts, like those used in a commercial dog food recipe, menadione is probably safe." from The Controversy Over Menadione in Dog Food (The bold is from the article, not me)

So these sources make it seem like it's not the absolute end of the world to have these in the ingredient deck of a pet food. Although the 2nd source does recommend rotating foods, which I definitely agree with, to obtain a rounded diet and not be exposed to too much of the same ingredients that are bad in large doses.

I also agree with Neo_23 that Tiki isn't the best anyway. But I absolutely dislike people demonizing pet food companies for using certain ingredients. If an ingredient was awful for animals, the company wouldn't use it. As awful as this sounds, companies need their consumer's pets to stay alive so they continue to buy their products. If a product killed pets or slowly killed pets the brand would lose reputation and go bankrupt, and they don't want to do that. Pet food companies want to keep your pets alive!

I’m not certain about the negative effects of Menadione but I will have to disagree that pet food companies are in the business of keeping pets healthy/alive. I think pet food companies are in the business of making money. If they were in the business of keeping pets healthy/alive they would not be selling dry food high in carbs or pushing lies on their websites about raw food being harmful for pets. In fact, ingredients that might be harmful but only with prolonged and long-term use would probably not bother many pet food companies because these are hard to directly associate with illness. There have also been numerous cases over the years of pet foods killing animals. Pet food companies get away with it because the laws around food poisoning for animals are unclear and because animals are generally considered property and not valued the way a human life would be valued. Obviously a pet food company wouldn’t want their foods being responsible for the illness of pets, but I don’t think they are always trying to pick the healthiest and safest ingredients. Sorry about the long rant but I’m really not a fan of the argument that pet foods are safe because the companies wouldn’t put unsafe ingredients in foods. I personally think this is a naive view. Unsafe ingredients have been in human and pet foods for years. It’s even worse for pet foods because there is no regulating body that controls what goes into pet food. AAFCO provides guidelines, not regulations.

 

[-Mia-]

Neo_23 EmmiTemmi and anyone else that wants to answer:

A little off topic... But... Because I'm still learning about food... Why do you say Tiki isn't that great? I've read here how great it is, and was planning on getting the chicken (Puka Puka Luau) for my kitten. Please don't take my question the wrong way. I'm really trying to learn how to pick-out the right foods/ingredients for my kitty!

 

[Neo_23]

Neo_23 EmmiTemmi and anyone else that wants to answer:

A little off topic... But... Because I'm still learning about food... Why do you say Tiki isn't that great? I've read here how great it is, and was planning on getting the chicken (Puka Puka Luau) for my kitten. Please don't take my question the wrong way. I'm really trying to learn how to pick-out the right foods/ingredients for my kitty!

I think it would be great if it was a dollar cheaper per can. Most of the varieties are fish which I won’t feed as a main meal, and I don’t like that it’s made in Thailand.

Edit: I would get the chicken too if I was to get any variety. But again, I think it’s far overpriced. The protein-fat-carb ratio is good though.

 

[EmmiTemmi]

-Mia- I agree with what neo has said above. Too many fish varieties, and overpriced for what you get. It's healthy enough though, if you want to pay the price. I just wouldn't recommend feeding fish based foods too often. Chicken seems good though!

And don't worry about us taking your question the wrong way. Questions are how people learn, and no question is a bad question when it comes to kitty's health! I got my undergrad in food science so I'm probably a little more opinionated than many people when it comes to food.

 

[-Mia-]

Thank you to you both EmmiTemmi and Neo_23 .

I plan on staying away from Tiki's Cat's tuna and other fish varieties. I was interested in the After Dark line (which is chicken with other proteins, I think) and the Puka Puka Luau (chicken). However, if it is overpriced (especially just for chicken), I may rethink it.

I try to stay away from fish in general, but have noticed that some other foods contain fish even though it has another main protein as the named part. So, in this case, I sometimes just accept it.

I also didn't realize it was made in Thailand. I haven't been paying attention to where the foods are manufactured, but I think I should.

Again, thank you for answering. I was concerned about coming across as confrontational or something like that. I would never do that.

 

[Kristi01]

So as we all know - mendione - known by its many names that cheap foods try to hide it under - synthetic vitamin k and bisulfate - is now being added to Tiki brand canned cat foods. How very disappointing. But despite the fact that they are now adding this poisonous, cancer inducing toxin to its food - it still charges a premium price for food that induces a myriad of illnesses to our pets. When I emailed them, their response is to blame it on the AAFCO which increased its requirements. AAFCO needs a kick in the pants - they're as bad as all the toxic ingredients the FDA allows in people food - that smarter European nations have banned - including the use of mendione bisulfate - MBS - . Shame on you Tiki.

Just received letter from tiki cat
Thank you for reaching out to us! As fellow pet parents we can definitely understand your concern. Our formulas meet the nutritional standards established by National Research Council and AAFCO to ensure a diet has all known required nutrients in the proper amounts and proportions based on a cat’s life stage. Supplementation of Vitamin K is necessary when you don’t have natural sources to meet the vitamin K requirement. Primarily fish-based diets may require supplementation of Menadione (Source of Vitamin K). Menadione is approved by the FDA, G.R.A.S (generally regarded as Safe) and an AAFCO approved ingredient. Vitamin K is absolutely necessary in cat foods. With that said, we listened to consumer feedback and tested all of our Tiki formulas to see if removing the vitamin K supplement was possible. We have confirmed a select range of Tiki formulas meet the required level of vitamin K without supplementation so you will see it being removed from the formula and ingredient panel of these diets in the coming months. This included the majority of our chicken based diets. Please let us know if you have any other questions!

 

[Mer.kitten]

What is the specific problem with it being made in Thailand? Just curious.

 

[maggie101]

Neo_23 EmmiTemmi and anyone else that wants to answer:

A little off topic... But... Because I'm still learning about food... Why do you say Tiki isn't that great? I've read here how great it is, and was planning on getting the chicken (Puka Puka Luau) for my kitten. Please don't take my question the wrong way. I'm really trying to learn how to pick-out the right foods/ingredients for my kitty!

I give my cat with a very sensitive stomach tiki after dark chicken quail. I never give her fish. I am surprised she likes it because it does have tuna oil. She hates fish. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It seems that the majority of canned cat foods have something in it that may be unhealthy. Ever since I have been giving it to her mixed in she has not thrown up. So it takes 3 days to eat a 5.5oz can. My cats are healthy 7,8,and 9 pds very active. Their food has agar agar in it,green mussles,other weird stuff. More questions

 

[Sebby]

Just received letter from tiki cat
Thank you for reaching out to us! As fellow pet parents we can definitely understand your concern. Our formulas meet the nutritional standards established by National Research Council and AAFCO to ensure a diet has all known required nutrients in the proper amounts and proportions based on a cat’s life stage. Supplementation of Vitamin K is necessary when you don’t have natural sources to meet the vitamin K requirement. Primarily fish-based diets may require supplementation of Menadione (Source of Vitamin K). Menadione is approved by the FDA, G.R.A.S (generally regarded as Safe) and an AAFCO approved ingredient. Vitamin K is absolutely necessary in cat foods. With that said, we listened to consumer feedback and tested all of our Tiki formulas to see if removing the vitamin K supplement was possible. We have confirmed a select range of Tiki formulas meet the required level of vitamin K without supplementation so you will see it being removed from the formula and ingredient panel of these diets in the coming months. This included the majority of our chicken based diets. Please let us know if you have any other questions!

Did you happen to find any cans now that don’t contain vitamin K? I can’t find any.

 

[kittyluv387]

Unless your pet is dependent on this brand I wouldn't tolerate this kind of ingredient in such an expensive pet food.

 

[Time 2 Recognize]

Just received letter from tiki cat
Thank you for reaching out to us! As fellow pet parents we can definitely understand your concern. Our formulas meet the nutritional standards established by National Research Council and AAFCO to ensure a diet has all known required nutrients in the proper amounts and proportions based on a cat’s life stage. Supplementation of Vitamin K is necessary when you don’t have natural sources to meet the vitamin K requirement. Primarily fish-based diets may require supplementation of Menadione (Source of Vitamin K). Menadione is approved by the FDA, G.R.A.S (generally regarded as Safe) and an AAFCO approved ingredient. Vitamin K is absolutely necessary in cat foods. With that said, we listened to consumer feedback and tested all of our Tiki formulas to see if removing the vitamin K supplement was possible. We have confirmed a select range of Tiki formulas meet the required level of vitamin K without supplementation so you will see it being removed from the formula and ingredient panel of these diets in the coming months. This included the majority of our chicken based diets. Please let us know if you have any other questions!

I'm guessing this isn't quite done yet even now in May, since I'm still seeing it listed on ingredients when searching online? Really hope the After Dark line is one that gets it removed so it's one less ingredient to worry about and I can be comfortable with it in rotation.