Three Feral Mommas

[Norachan]

Just check in when you can Sheri. We all go through periods of being insanely busy, we understand what that is like. Like Sarthur2 said, we're here if ever you need us. You don't have to give us daily updates, you can always fill us in on the details later.

I know you feel terrible about Kireii and your worrying about the other mothers. Just remember, whatever happens they are so much better off being fostered by you than they would be giving birth outside.

 

[StefanZ]

This is a situation where prayers may help. Not prayers for a miracle as such, but prayers for endurance, for patience, for courage, for ability, for help to get through...

It reminds me of a scene in the wonderful film Frisco Kid, from 1979, where a young rabbi born in Poland travels through the whole USA to get to his new congregation in San Francisco.
He get caugh by indians, and they demand from him make do a wonder, get Gods help it will rain. As he is supposed to be a holy man, no? As they had a draugh and were desperate.
And the rabbi exasperated: but our God isnt not for miracles! Our prayers to God is to get help to get courage, to get endurance, to get courage to do the necessary... etc.
Point struck in and was taken.
Suddenly there come a a thunder, and the moment later, heavy rain pours down...

The rabbi manages to cover his face features, and exclaims trumphantly: But sometimes He does change His mind! [and DO makes miracles if we pray honestly and hot] SheriB

So, work on, do your very best as you can in your situation. But dont forget to pray. Surprising often it does helps you to get trough.

 

[SheriB]

We’re here if you need us!

Thank you. I think it is wonderful that you are available to everyone here.

 

[SheriB]

Just check in when you can Sheri. We all go through periods of being insanely busy, we understand what that is like. Like Sarthur2 said, we're here if ever you need us. You don't have to give us daily updates, you can always fill us in on the details later.

I know you feel terrible about Kireii and your worrying about the other mothers. Just remember, whatever happens they are so much better off being fostered by you than they would be giving birth outside.

Thank you, Norachan. The other mothers have had their babies about settled in. I’m still shaky and queasy every time I think about them. Thank you for being there.

 

[SheriB]

This is a situation where prayers may help. Not prayers for a miracle as such, but prayers for endurance, for patience, for courage, for ability, for help to get through...

It reminds me of a scene in the wonderful film Frisco Kid, from 1979, where a young rabbi born in Poland travels through the whole USA to get to his new congregation in San Francisco.
He get caugh by indians, and they demand from him make do a wonder, get Gods help it will rain. As he is supposed to be a holy man, no? As they had a draugh and were desperate.
And the rabbi exasperated: but our God isnt not for miracles! Our prayers to God is to get help to get courage, to get endurance, to get courage to do the necessary... etc.
Point struck in and was taken.
Suddenly there come a a thunder, and the moment later, heavy rain pours down...

The rabbi manages to cover his face features, and exclaims trumphantly: But sometimes He does change His mind! [and DO makes miracles if we pray honestly and hot] SheriB

So, work on, do your very best as you can in your situation. But dont forget to pray. Surprising often it does helps you to get trough.

Stefanz this is the sweetest thing anyone has said to me, thank you so much. And I love The Frisco Kid. I have been hesitant about prayer because it often seems to be a laundry list of how we think things should be, repeated over and over. Like three year olds. At least that was my experience when I tried church. My form of prayer is to listen. I like your thoughts.

 

[SheriB]

First explorer and Mama Aiko.

 

[Norachan]

Oh, that is so sweet! That chubby little tail and the way he/she has his paws splayed for balance.



What a little darling.

How are all the other mothers and babies doing?

 

[SheriB]

Thank you Norachan , they seem good. The mamas all seem to be taking care of all of the babies, yesterday this little explorer followed one of the other mamas to the litter box and cried and pawed at it until she came back out. I saw that happen on the remote camera.
The mamas all still hide when I go in the room, all three crowded in to one small carrier. It is between the bed and the wall and a curtain drapes over it. That is where they all moved their babies a few days after the last litter was born. In front of the carrier there is a bed with a pile of babies. If I peek, I can usually see the grey Tuxie, a black Tuxie, a tabby, and a very dark torbie.
I spend quiet time in the room but do not seek out the mamas. Usually I lay on the floor and play a guided meditation tape. After what happened to the first baby I have been feeling very fearful about these kitties and I know that can’t help them learn to trust me. So I am doing all I can to turn that fear around.

 

[SheriB]

Here is one of the Tabby mamas. So far I have not found any distinctive markings to tell them apart.

 

[Sarthur2]

She is a very pretty tabby!

 

[SheriB]

Tomorrow the oldest kittens will be 5 weeks old. They have been exploring and tasting litter, but haven’t yet tried the food.
We lost another of the first litter, the most intrepid explorer and robust little baby started to gasp for breath and was gone very quickly. It was not one that had ever been supplemented or fed anywhere but from a mama and yet it still got fluid in its lungs. So sad.
There are seven remining kittens all, ranging from three and a half to five weeks old. Two long haired tuxies with white on their chins and bibs like their Mama, two tuxies with white on their faces, two strongly marked tabbies, and one that I can’t really tell. Maybe a dark dilute tabby or tortie with a hint of stripes.
I’m spending more and more time in there but the mamas still refuse to come out of hiding when I am in there.

 

[Norachan]

That's so sad about that little kitten. It just goes to show that even with the best care some of them don't make it.

What are the plans for the kittens, are they going to be re-homed eventually? Five weeks might be about the right time to take them away from their mothers so they get used to being handled.

I guess your rescue will know what's best though.

Do the kittens come out while you are there or do they hide with their Mums?

 

[SheriB]

Norachan thanks, this has been so hard, even though I’m doing the best I can.
The two older kittens have ventured out twice to sniff my ankles. As soon as I’m sure they are eating food I am going to try taking them out during the day to be handled and get used to human life. I’m wondering if they could be put back with their mamas at night.
The kittens will be spayed and neutered at 8 weeks and then be put up for adoption. In a perfect world I would already be handling them, but this is not a perfect situation. However I have several cats who were trapped as older kittens and they are quite friendly, with very little difference in their behavior from my cats who were born in human care. So I’m taking it a little slow, hopefully by next Thursday, when they are six weeks old, their curiosity will bring them out to me. I will only take them from their mamas if I have to, and then I don’t know where I will put them as every other room has cats. Also I have to be absurdly careful about contagion because of my fosters with FELV.
If I can’t get the mamas out of hiding they will have to go back to the shelter to be tamed. There they will be in a cage where they cannot hide. I hate that option but it does work. Of course that will only happen once all of the kittens are safely weaned. I have tried tempting them with treats, and staying in the room doing a quiet activity, and napping in there. They simply wait me out. The most progress I have made is to get one of them to come six inches out of hiding to eat some tuna, once in a while. She will also stay on the windowsill if I happen to come in while she's there, behind the curtain of course. The mamas have very few options if they cannot be tamed either here or at the shelter. They can’t be returned as their colony is under threat from local businesses and they can’t be feral at my place because of coyotes. I guess the best I could do is move them to my greenhouse as I originally planned and continue to try to tame them. Of course if they can be tamed they can be adopted, which would absolutely be the best result.

 

[Norachan]

People say it's best to take them away from their mothers and get them used to people early on, but to be honest I haven't found it that difficult to socialize older kittens.

Most of mine followed their mothers to my place to be fed, so they were about four months old by the time I got them indoors. I have a few skittish ones, but the majority of them are pretty friendly. A couple of the litter mates of my current cats went to new homes and they settled in just fine.

Are the kittens interested in playing with you? I used to get a double-size thick blanket or futon and spread it over the floor, then sit with my legs stretched out under it. I guess sitting like that made me look much smaller than I am. I used a fairly long wand toy to engage them in play. A long toy lets you play with them at a "safe distance" from you. They soon get really engrossed in play and forget the human torso at the end of the wand. You can get them to run back and forth over the blanket. They start to use your legs to hide behind and ambush the toy, then before they know it they are practically sitting in your lap.

Your greenhouse sounds like a pretty good option if the mothers can't be re-homed. Did you ever post a picture of it? I can't remember if I've seen it. An outdoor greenhouse would be easy to add a little catio to, so the mothers could get some fresh air too.

It sounds like it's all going well. No such thing as a perfect world, but we get along just fine with the one we've got.

 

[SheriB]

Thanks for your reply Norachan , I know you have done wonders with the cats in your care. I have just been thinking about the wand toy option, even though the kittens have only come out once while I was in there. I was standing up preparing a plate of their food and these two sniffed my ankles and one leaned on my foot for a second or two. Then they seemed to remember and ran under the furniture and hissed at me. I know one day their curiosity will bring them out, it just seems like the times of day that I can spend in their room coincides with some serious nap time.
The shelter of course would like them tame and adoptable as soon as they are old enough for surgery, 8 weeks or 2 pounds. The younger they are the easier it is to find them a home. I will do my best, it shouldn’t be hard once I can make contact.
Anyway, my local pet supply store carries peacock feathers very cheap and so I thought I would get one to tempt the kittens. The blanket is a great idea, I will definitely try it.
I made some progress today with Aiko, the black and white mama. She was on the windowsill when I went in so I prepared their evening food and then just sat on the floor. Eventually she jumped down and crossed the bed to the other side of the room. I made the mistake of peeking to see where she went and she caught me looking, so I just looked away and she crossed back to crouch on top of the carrier they all hide in. But that’s the first time anyone has had the courage to move around the room when I was in there.
I’ll have to get some pictures of the greenhouse tomorrow. It’s not large, two 6x8 hobby greenhouses linked together but it’s quite pleasant. And you’re right, it would be easy to add on outside enclosures. The doors are the main difficulty, making sure they are secure on uneven stonework. But most of the work is already done.

 

[SheriB]

Last night one little baby came out to play with the new wand toy and Mama Aiko not only watched from the windowsill, but got down and ate some tuna not far from me. After that it was so disappointing today to see no one for hours as I sat in their room this morning and again this afternoon. But they made up for it tonight with four kittens coming out to play and Mama Aiko laying on the bed, trilling at one of her babies. The tabby mamas still will not come out for me, and if I go into the room unexpectedly mamas and babies hiss and go running.
I’m so grateful for this progress, it’s so great to see these babies and start to get to know them.
Unfortunately I couldn’t get pictures in the little light there was in their room. It was just dusk when they came out to play.

 

[SheriB]

The wand toy is doing its magic, now playing with all of the kittens at one time or another. In the picture is little Kawaii, and she is indeed beautiful. I’ll have some video soon.
Also mama Aiko is getting braver, coming forward for tuna and lounging on the bed to watch playtime.

 

[Norachan]

Awww! That little face. She really is kawaii.



That's great news about Mama Aiko too. Play seems to be the way to any kittens heart.

 

[SheriB]

One of my kittens, Snorgle, is peeing inappropriately. She peed in their cuddle bed so I took it away. I didn’t take it that seriously until tonight when she peed on the edge of the robe I was wearing. And now that I know what she’s doing, I’m pretty sure I saw her pee on the soft blanket on the bed the other day. I have seen her use the litter box so she knows what it’s for. She will be 7 weeks old tomorrow.
Is this a kitten thing or are we going to have a problem? Will she teach the other kittens her bad habit? All of the others and the mamas have been great about using the box.

Aside from that, now that the kittens are pretty much comfortable with my presence and playing with the wand, how do we go from there to handling them? I can stroke them with the wand and pet them a little if their attention is elsewhere, but if they see my hand move they run away.

 

[Norachan]

I've never had inappropriate peeing in a kitten of that age. I have it with much younger kittens when they were first getting the hang of the litter box, or with older kittens when they went into their first heat, but not at 7 weeks.

When you clean make sure you put the tissues you use in the litter box, just to reinforce the idea if that is where she should go. Maybe Sarthur2 has some ideas?

Have you tried squirting your hands with the Feliway spray before handling them? That helps a bit. Running away when they see your hand is quite common. You have to make sure they are distracted by the toy and use the other hand to pet them with.

The more they get your smell on them the more comfortable they will be with being petted.