Thoughts on Phosphate?

[Genevi]

So I discovered Jackson Galaxy's video about learning how to read cat food labels. I believe to be someone who is knowledgeable enough to know how to pick my own cat food but one piece of information was new to me.

In the video, it says that if the cat food contains more than one phosphate or has one very close to the top of the ingredient list, it's a red flag.

This is the first time that I've heard of this and I would like to hear the opinion of others.

Here is the link of the video!

 

[Alldara]

Did he provide any sources for his video?

Don't get me wrong...I like Jackson Galaxy for a lot of things. He's an expert behaviouralist. But even he says he is not an expert on cat health and that's why he has clients (even on tv) go to vets and other specialists.

He's not a nutritionist either. He gives the same information that's passed around online without providing sources. And that's because the reality is we do not have a lot of longitudinal studies regarding cat food and what actually helps them live longer. We've already more than doubled the life span of an average indoor cat. This means we've only just started learning about things that come up at those older ages.

There are no sources (backed with data) or studies that show a raw diet is the best diet. Yet that's exactly what he says using the same logic that people use to say that the Paleo diet is best for all people. It's an opinion.

It may be that lower phosphate diets are better for cats, but we don't actually know if they are better for cats, but we have the beginning of some theories that the current minimum may be slightly too high.

That said, you can have multiple sources of things in one food and still have a lower amount of phosphorus. Checking the daily percentage of phosphorus is a better plan than simply reading the food.
Animal nutrition: Excess phosphorus damages the kidney.

What's in My Cat's Food?: Designer Diets, Grain Free Diets | VCA Canada Animal Hospitals

 

[lisahe]

A Alldara , your answer here reminds me of how our vet always answers my questions about phosphorus... There's usually a variation of "wellll" at the beginning. Because there are tradeoffs. And, as you mention, the lack of rigorous clinical studies means it's hard to make decisions based on real scientific evidence.

Our previous cat had kidney disease, which got me conditioned to thinking about phosphorus, even when our current cats were kittens and phosphorus wasn't a big concern. More recently, the vet referred to some food or other (alas, I forget what!) as not being kidney-friendly so that's stuck in my thinking. Now that our cats are ten, I think about that more and limit their foods that are above 1.5% dry matter phosphorus, when things are less friendly for the kidneys. Unfortunately, a lot of foods (like Weruva) that have low phosphorus also contain things they can't eat, like certain thickeners. I also make sure the cats are getting plenty of water.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am not sure what to make of that video, tbh. The 'doctor friend' had some basic information that was worthwhile; the rest of the video content was primarily opinion based and probably too superficial to be considered a good way to review cat food.

In particular regard to phosphates: While it might be worthy of noting how many phosphates are in a particular food and how that might pertain the phosphorus level - it is not the only relative thing to note if one wants to focus on phosphorus content. A big example is most of the Fancy Feast pates that are considered to be high in phosphorus contain ONE phosphate - tricalcium, usually about the 8th listed ingredient. Many of them run close to 2.0% phosphorus. Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites, listed with 0.57% phosphorus, is one of the lower phosphorus foods, and yet it too contains tricalcium phosphate, also the 8th ingredient listed. So, obvious other elements play a role.

 

[Alldara]

lisahe Whenever I meet someone new at the vets office they ask if I'm in school to be a vet tech or similar as my notes for my cats are like that.
No cats are just a special interest that I like to research. I had a formerly sick cat so I had to take notes to get her needs met.

My theory is we will find out that 1% is too high a minimum for phosphate in cat foods. But currently studies show that 5 times the daily amount can damage kidneys. That's significantly higher. Especially if one portion only has 1% in it. You'd have to be adding something via suppliments.

I think the best we can do now with the data to back it is to increase cat's water to help their kidneys flush regularly.

 

[jclark]

Did he provide any sources for his video?

Don't get me wrong...I like Jackson Galaxy for a lot of things. He's an expert behaviouralist. But even he says he is not an expert on cat health and that's why he has clients (even on tv) go to vets and other specialists.

He's not a nutritionist either. He gives the same information that's passed around online without providing sources. And that's because the reality is we do not have a lot of longitudinal studies regarding cat food and what actually helps them live longer. We've already more than doubled the life span of an average indoor cat. This means we've only just started learning about things that come up at those older ages.

There are no sources (backed with data) or studies that show a raw diet is the best diet. Yet that's exactly what he says using the same logic that people use to say that the Paleo diet is best for all people. It's an opinion.

It may be that lower phosphate diets are better for cats, but we don't actually know if they are better for cats, but we have the beginning of some theories that the current minimum may be slightly too high.

That said, you can have multiple sources of things in one food and still have a lower amount of phosphorus. Checking the daily percentage of phosphorus is a better plan than simply reading the food.
Animal nutrition: Excess phosphorus damages the kidney.

What's in My Cat's Food?: Designer Diets, Grain Free Diets | VCA Canada Animal Hospitals

Interesting link. I've wondered if feeding my cats a higher phosphorus food when they were young was a good thing.

 

[lisahe]

lisahe Whenever I meet someone new at the vets office they ask if I'm in school to be a vet tech or similar as my notes for my cats are like that.
No cats are just a special interest that I like to research. I had a formerly sick cat so I had to take notes to get her needs met.

My theory is we will find out that 1% is too high a minimum for phosphate in cat foods. But currently studies show that 5 times the daily amount can damage kidneys. That's significantly higher. Especially if one portion only has 1% in it. You'd have to be adding something via suppliments.

I think the best we can do now with the data to back it is to increase cat's water to help their kidneys flush regularly.

I so agree with you about the water. And am glad that our cat who decided she insists on eating mostly dry food a) chose Dr. Elsey's chicken, which is only .89% phosphorus DM, 2.77% DM carbs, with no fillers and b) goes for a nice drink of water after she eats the dry food. Fortunately, she's gone back to eating some wet foods (we offer them to her whenever we feed her sister), though not a lot and not what I'd necessarily consider the best ones since it's only Fancy Feast (turkey pate) that she'll consistently eat. And of course those tend to be high is phosphorus! They're just a once a week treat, though, and I add water. The litter box looks the same as it used to, she's eating better, and seems far less stressed after being an undereater for years, so I'm happy over all. Even though I'd prefer that she ate mostly wet food! Then again, this is no surprise since she was the one who was more resistant to being converted to wet food after we adopted the cats.

It's funny, I also thought you must be a vet tech! I'm like you, in the sense that I learned a lot when we had a very sick cat ten years ago... She had mild kidney disease plus likely IBD and lymphoma, though those were never diagnosed with tests because she was old, frail, and had a scary arrhythmia. I'm glad I learned so much from her because the two cats we have now came to us with all sorts of digestive quirks -- I don't know what would have happened with these cats (other than even higher vet bills!) if Brooksie's last months hadn't taught me how to feed cats.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Interesting link. I've wondered if feeding my cats a higher phosphorus food when they were young was a good thing.

Young cats, in particular kittens, need a higher level of phosphorus when they are growing and developing. So, it would be more a matter of knowing when to transition to food with a lower phosphorus level. I guess the real question is: Does lowering phosphorus in a healthy cat's food actually do anything to help prevent CKD? I am not sure it does. It is just that cats with kidney disease cannot process it as well and therefore it can build up in their systems causing them to feel unwell. A healthy cat with no kidney issues can easily regulate phosphorus.

My theory is we will find out that 1% is too high a minimum for phosphate in cat foods.

Tanya's web site (Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - The Importance of Phosphorus Control (felinecrf.org)) states the ideal level of phosphorus would be no more than 0.5% DM, but she also recognizes that foods, especially non-prescription ones, that low are very hard to come by...so far...

 

[Mighty Orange]

Phosphate is only a problem when the felines kidneys are failing.

 

[Alldara]

Interesting link. I've wondered if feeding my cats a higher phosphorus food when they were young was a good thing.

Unfortunately the answer to that is that studies are ongoing.

 

[Alldara]

lisahe Yes I understand that gratitude completely. Lily taught me how to be a good advocate and keep notes. It made it easier to help Magnus.
I'm also glad my vet takes the time to explain things. She's a little more guarded with information that's ongoing (rightfully so), but she says we are starting to catch up to dogs in terms of cat studies.

FeebysOwner Oh yes! I haven't dealt with CKD yet (luckily), but I was so grateful to be able to send that to my friend who has a cat who is starting. Such a beautiful resource and I know she works hard to keep it updated.