This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

[carolina]

Day 52 Late night Dinner​

Taking deeps breaths..... iiinnnnnn...... ooooutttt......
That little trick and those meals of WL chicken were great to give Lucky some nutrition.... but boy, did I know this was going to happen :frusty: Lucky is a smart kitty, and a master manipulator at that..... She knows what she wants, she knows how to ask, and what she wants is WL freeze dried chicken. Period :doh3:
Again, o-n-c-e-a-g-a-i-n I served her a meal (Rad Cat Turkey), and she walked away.......... right to the place where I was feeding her the WL treats, and stood there, looking at my face, as to say wrong dish mom, where is my dinner?
Here is the thing - we are not going to come out of a kibble situation just to go into a WL chicken situation That would be pathetic.
So, Lucky - either you eat raw, my darling, or you don't.
I have the bag ready here....... I will force feed her raw meals before I feed her WL treats as meals again - that COMPLETELY backfired for Lucky - she is way too new of a raw feeder...... she can slip out of it any time......
We were doing sooooo well..... I hate this. I HATE this!
With a LOT and I mean, a LOT - you can't imagine the effort, I got her to eat 0.5oz of Turkey - for a daily total of 1.4oz
Bugsy and Hope had Rabbit for Dinner and did very well - they left nothing behind.

EDIT - Just adding some Venting/Thoughts.....
I don't know why I do things I promise I am not going to do :doh3: Lucky is hungry..... and was begging for food...... I tried to feed her another raw meal - she refused. I gave in :disa: I broke down and fed her a meal of WL chicken - 3 strips - that makes it pretty much a meal, when hydrated.... She ate it and is keeping it down.... That is the good news.....
The bad news is that is seems that just this morning she had a great appetite for raw, and now she only wants WL treats It is like we backtracked to kibbles all the way to ground 0...... and I just don't know if I can do this again.....
It took SO long for Lucky to get here..... it took 35 days for her to take a little lick of raw..... and now I am afraid of her not eating anymore
I just don't know what to do... I am so discouraged.... I know she is going to be alright health-wise, because I am just going to do whatever it takes for her.... But.... I don't know if I can re-introduce her all the way again.... I can't go back to nothing with her again.... and I am just afraid right now.
She is turning away from raw like it is something disgusting. Just like she used to do before
This morning, just this morning she ate 1.3oz..... Yesterday morning she ate 1.8oz.... and now she doesn't want it at all....

My plan now, that I can only pray that works..... Is to offer her the food, and if she doesn't eat, syringe feed her.... I have a syringe that is perfect for that here.... My cat bag is ready too.... And the rad Cat chicken is that perfect consistency.... But I also have the fear of her relating the feeding with something bad.... and having that backfiring.... I am confused and afraid.
All I know is that I can not go on feeding her addiction for WL chicken - it is just going to work against her - not a good situation for anyone.....
Sorry for the venting.... I want her to be alright now.... but after this too..... I don't have canned to fall to, as she never ate canned, and I am absolutely not going back to kibbles.....
for my girl.....

 

[mschauer]

Carolina, since Lucky is having such a hard time with the raw and it is causing you, and probably her, so much stress can you just totally back off the raw for her for now? Keep the others on raw but put her back on nothing but high quality canned? I know it feels like a big step backwards but it really isn't. B & H are huge leaps forward. L just isn't with them yet.

For me, Toby and Coco lagged quite a bit behind Zara and Jeta in transitioning to raw but they did eventually and in hind sight I'm glad I didn't stress over them not being in lock step with Z & J. In the end it really didn't matter. They are all on raw now regardless.

 

[carolina]

Carolina, since Lucky is having such a hard time with the raw and it is causing you, and probably her, so much stress can you just totally back off the raw for her for now? Keep the others on raw but put her back on nothing but high quality canned? I know it feels like a big step backwards but it really isn't. B & H are huge leaps forward. L just isn't with them yet.

For me, Toby and Coco lagged quite a bit behind Zara and Jeta in transitioning to raw but they did eventually and in hind sight I'm glad I didn't stress over them not being in lock step with Z & J. In the end it really didn't matter. They are all on raw now regardless.

well..... except that would mean a whole other introduction to a food she never ate. Lucky never ate canned food - she hated it - she always found it disgusting. A step back to her would be kibbles, not canned. Lucky didn't come from canned to raw - she came from kibbles to raw.

Something happened here..... Something happened with the rabbit. 2 days ago she was doing wonderful - she was doing amazing. There was nothing wrong with her. It is not a case of "since she is having such a hard time with the raw".... that specific one made her sick..... And I have to figure out a way to keep her out of kibbles now, as she is extremely new to it, and I simply am not up to taking another month to bring her back in. If she goes back to kibbles..... I might just give up on her all together.

 

[feralvr]

This was actually Hare Today's Rabbit, not NV's
The bones are small though..... The problem seems to be with Lucky..... She is the one, really, who is not capable, for some reason, to digest them..... Don't know why that is the case with Lucky..... But it just is..... Hope and Bugsy had no problems at all with it - they are both loving it, and will continue to eat it normally - in fact, that will be the food in the menu for their late night meal tonight The only one not having it is Miss Lucky :nod:
Yep - I am glad to have both Rad Cat and Nature's Menu as bone free brands to fall back to!

WOW - thanks for letting me know. As for NV - I just pick out the bone shards anyway. That is a concern of mine using the NV. OH!!!!!!!! I am still trying to get Rad Cat out my way One of the natural stores is trying very hard to get a distributor because the owner LOVES the ingredient's in Rad Cat. She feeds her cat's raw too!!!! So I found an ally in my quest to get Rad Cat out here :cross: I really LOVE NM so far - the Lamb is a big hit. :bigthumb:

 

[feralvr]

Oh sweetie OK - now I have another thought - your sure it was the Hare Today rabbit? Didn't they just start on that? How could the bones build up like that in one or two days :dk:..... I guess it is possible Just my thoughts.

I am so sorry, honey, BUT once you get Lucky back on track with her health and feeling better - you will be able to get her back to where you had her quickly rather than that painfully slow 35 days. Really, I think it will happen fast. YES - she has your number but right now she has to eat until she gets over this tummy issue.... I don't blame you for not wanting to go back to the kibble and there has to be another way to get food in her. The "bag" I think we all have to realize that during the transitional process to raw, we will have set-backs. No doubt about it. The cat's systems are all adjusting to this diet after eating cooked, over-processed foods their whole life. We have to expect ups and downs and if you have to back-pedal a bit - it is not failure. Because once you get her past this issue with the vomiting - then you can play hard ball and get her right back to where you were before she was sick. I had to do that with Pipsqueak - but surprisingly he is taking to the raw readily again

Hang in there!!! Sending lots of vibes to Lucky this morning and lots of hugs to you!!

 

[carolina]

Oh sweetie OK - now I have another thought - your sure it was the Hare Today rabbit? Didn't they just start on that? How could the bones build up like that in one or two days :dk:..... I guess it is possible Just my thoughts.
I am so sorry, honey, BUT once you get Lucky back on track with her health and feeling better - you will be able to get her back to where you had her quickly rather than that painfully slow 35 days. Really, I think it will happen fast. YES - she has your number but right now she has to eat until she gets over this tummy issue.... I don't blame you for not wanting to go back to the kibble and there has to be another way to get food in her. The "bag" I think we all have to realize that during the transitional process to raw, we will have set-backs. No doubt about it. The cat's systems are all adjusting to this diet after eating cooked, over-processed foods their whole life. We have to expect ups and downs and if you have to back-pedal a bit - it is not failure. Because once you get her past this issue with the vomiting - then you can play hard ball and get her right back to where you were before she was sick. I had to do that with Pipsqueak - but surprisingly he is taking to the raw readily again
Hang in there!!! Sending lots of vibes to Lucky this morning and lots of hugs to you!!

It was the rabbit..... it was not only one day.... it was 3 days, all meals.... and all the bones were in there in the x-rays, showing very clear, undigested, for everyone to see
The very next day I ended the introduction, the very next meal, she threw up - and hasn't stopped. She threw up every single raw meal.... Not yesterday, as she had a shot of Cerenia in the morning..... But the only meals she had raw, were 0.5 and 0.4 oz..... Huge difference from the 1.8, 1.5 oz she was having before that

 

[ldg]

Well, slightly different issue than Spooky, but similar resolution, I think. :nod:

Sounds like the raw is now giving her an acid dump. What I'm doing for Spooky is pepcid a/c at night - 10mg. (Famotidine). Whenever you give it to her, make sure it's at least an hour after a meal or an hour before one. It only works on the one meal if you give it with food, but you can only give it once a day. And instead of WL chicken, try boiled chicken. She'll probably eat it ( ) as she likes the WL chicken. :nod: :cross: Let her tummy settle... and see how things go. But I expect you'll be able to work back in boneless raw (Rad Cat or NM) pretty easily. :heart3:

 

[carolina]

Well, slightly different issue than Spooky, but similar resolution, I think. :nod:
Sounds like the raw is now giving her an acid dump. What I'm doing for Spooky is pepcid a/c at night - 10mg. (Famotidine). Whenever you give it to her, make sure it's at least an hour after a meal or an hour before one. It only works on the one meal if you give it with food, but you can only give it once a day. And instead of WL chicken, try boiled chicken. She'll probably eat it ( ) as she likes the WL chicken. :nod: :cross: Let her tummy settle... and see how things go. But I expect you'll be able to work back in boneless raw (Rad Cat or NM) pretty easily. :heart3:

From your mouth straight to God's ears, my friend

Ok - off to whole foods now - gotta grab some Chicken for her so I don't go completely broke feeding her WL chicken - which is the only thing that doesn't make her throw up at the moment, even on Cerenia

and she will go back to raw once her tummy is settled..... She can't be forever on plain chicken :cross:

 

[carolina]

Day 53​

$10.99/lb of organic vegetarian fed/pasture raised chicken :dash: These kids are going to bankrupt me

So - as you are probably following from the above posts, Lucky is still throwing up her raw meals, Cerenia and all. She is refusing to eat them completely. I tried to syringe feed her this morning, but she threw up the whole thing, even with cerenia - which should have stopped her from it. She did take syringe feeding well though - it is not like she hates raw.

She doesn't throw up WL Chicken...... and she is hungry..... So let me start from the beginning.....

Breakfast:

Thinking I might want to syringe feed her, I offered Lucky Rad cat chicken for Breakfast. She walked away. She did not want anything at all to do with it. Nothing. You should see how she was begging for WL. She would walk to the place where I feed her the treats, and throw me these "love looks" half closed eyes, turning her head to one side..... and keeping looking deep, deep into my eyes :lol3:.... man, when I tell you she is a master manipulator.... you better believe it :lol3:
I knew exactly what she was trying to tell me too!
Well.... I gave it a try on syringe feeding - I wanted to see if she could keep some raw in - get some nutrition into her :nod: She took it well... I got about 1.3oz into her.
She threw up the whole thing shortly there after, just like she did with all other raw meals

An hour later or so I fed her 1.5oz of re-hydrated WL chicken and she kept it all in.

Bugsy's and Lucky's Breakfast was Turkey - they ate well, and left nothing, really, behind.

Back to Lucky: I have no clue why she is all of the sudden not handling raw. Her vet, evidently, wants her to get nutrition, on raw - and so do I. But.... she can't handle it, she can't handle it. I guess she needs some time to get rid of those bones.
So I don't go bankrupt, Laurie advised me to buy some chicken breast, cook it and give it to her - because of Bugsy, it has to be Vegetarian fed, pasture raised, etc. etc - $$$$$$. Good news - She LOVES IT Better news She doesn't throw up Another great news - Bugsy loves the cut out pieces too - and they are not even small pieces - so I am going to start giving him 1oz a day as of today for teeth health :nod:
For Lucky, I am going in a little while to Walmart to buy some cheaper chicken breasts to cook up for her meals - sorry Lucky :lol3::lol3::lol3: But mommy needs to save some $$$ here baby. :nod:
Then :cross: all fingers and toes that she gets all better soon and on her regular feeding schedule..... eating raw..... and a happy little kitty :cross:
Today she will be fully on cooked chicken.... and perhaps tomorrow too.... Then I will add a bit of raw on her plate again - will see what happens :nod:

I gave her one pepcid-ac, and about one hour later, gave her a meal of 1.35oz of cooked chicken. She kept it all in.

Her total intake so far 2.85oz

 

[mslemon]

I'm glad to her you're getting Lucky to eat and keep something down!

I know just how you feel. I had one fall off the wagon, too, and he is not a canned food or treat eater at all. It's very trying and stressful for him and me to syringe feed, if husband or I can even catch him. 

Sending positive vibes your way for Lucky!

 

[ldg]

I'm SO GLAD she's keeping it down! Now her tummy settles down tomorrow, and you can reintroduce a little raw on Monday... and she gets back on track quickly!

 

[feralvr]

Well, slightly different issue than Spooky, but similar resolution, I think. :nod:
Sounds like the raw is now giving her an acid dump. What I'm doing for Spooky is pepcid a/c at night - 10mg. (Famotidine). Whenever you give it to her, make sure it's at least an hour after a meal or an hour before one. It only works on the one meal if you give it with food, but you can only give it once a day. And instead of WL chicken, try boiled chicken. She'll probably eat it ( ) as she likes the WL chicken. :nod: :cross: Let her tummy settle... and see how things go. But I expect you'll be able to work back in boneless raw (Rad Cat or NM) pretty easily. :heart3:

AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never heard of "acid dump" :dk: Please explain this - :scratch: OMgoodness Excellent solution

 

[feralvr]

Great plan for Lucky this weekend - the $$$$$$$ vegetarian fed pasture raised chicken.......... Thanks Laurie - great suggestion For Lucky to pass out all of those bones :cross:

Are you giving Bugsy raw vegetartian fed pasture raised chicken OR cooking it? I am thinking of trying this as a treat for my babies for their teeth too!

 

[ldg]

Lauren, I just meant that because she's not digesting the bones, her system might be over-producing acid to try to compensate. This makes them nauseous - and when we put more raw down there, it just makes the situation worse, and the food comes back up. When we moved to three meals a day from two for Tuxedo, his system probably started producing acid in anticipation of the meal - but going without all day meant that when he got dinner, he threw it right up. The suggestion was to feed him a little WL chicken (LITTLE) every couple of hours, half an hour before the meal, and one very small piece about 5 mintues before the meal. It "uses" that acid, so the food at the meal stays down. This is working for him. :nod: ( :cross: :lol3: ).

So when Carolina said Lucky was keeping down the WL, but not the raw meals... it just seemed that with all those bones still in her system, the raw was just making her produce too much acid. We'll see..... but the plain meal combined with the pepcid will hopefully calm everything down, and once those bones are gone, let's hope Carolina can reintroduce the Rad Cat. :nod:

 

[carolina]

Great plan for Lucky this weekend - the $$$$$$$ vegetarian fed pasture raised chicken.......... Thanks Laurie - great suggestion For Lucky to pass out all of those bones :cross:
Are you giving Bugsy raw vegetartian fed pasture raised chicken OR cooking it? I am thinking of trying this as a treat for my babies for their teeth too!

Lauren, I just meant that because she's not digesting the bones, her system might be over-producing acid to try to compensate. This makes them nauseous - and when we put more raw down there, it just makes the situation worse, and the food comes back up. When we moved to three meals a day from two for Tuxedo, his system probably started producing acid in anticipation of the meal - but going without all day meant that when he got dinner, he threw it right up. The suggestion was to feed him a little WL chicken (LITTLE) every couple of hours, half an hour before the meal, and one very small piece about 5 mintues before the meal. It "uses" that acid, so the food at the meal stays down. This is working for him. :nod: ( :cross: :lol3: ).
So when Carolina said Lucky was keeping down the WL, but not the raw meals... it just seemed that with all those bones still in her system, the raw was just making her produce too much acid. We'll see..... but the plain meal combined with the pepcid will hopefully calm everything down, and once those bones are gone, let's hope Carolina can reintroduce the Rad Cat. :nod:

Ladies, ladies - it seems that it is working :clap
Lauren - Great news!!! Bugsy LOVES the chicken - RAW Great for his teeth I gave him one ounce today, and I will give him one ounce a day - that is the most I can give, when feeding 6oz a day - you can give up to 15% of the daily meals without messing up the balance, so roughly 1oz a day :bigthumb: This is going to be excellent for Bugsy!

And more good news!
I went to Walmart, and they had the same thing - all nature, vegetarian fed chicken, pasture raised, cage-free, organic, for $3.84/lb HUUUUGE difference from the $10.99/lb at whole foods! I bought 6lbs :lol3:
Got home, rinsed all of them, sliced in strips - kind of fajita type strips - he loved cut like that, separated what I was going to cook for Lucky, and the rest I put in 2oz baggies in the freezer. I will feed at breakfast for Bugsy and Hope - they will have clean clean teeth! :bigthumb:

Lucky has kept all meal in today - aside from the raw - I will update in the dinner post :nod:

 

[ldg]

:cross:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And GO BUGSY! Did you offer any to Hope? Any hope there for some raw chunks of chicken?

 

[carolina]

Day 53 Dinner​

Things seem to be looking a little up for Miss Lucky - Aside from the raw breakfast, she has kept every meal down, and we just did it again. She ate some of the cooked chicken on her own, and some I had to sprinkle a bit of WL onit - but that's alright, as it is the same thing I will sprinkle on the raw - I rather her have that familiar taste :nod:
She ate 1.30oz tonight, and so far so good - all in and none out
Her total intake for today is 4.1oz, with one more meal to go -she is doing great!

Bugsy and Hope had Turkey for dinner - they ate very very well, with very little fuss from me - things are getting very easy on their end :nod:
Bugsy left a little bit behind, but I didn't insist, as he ate some pieces of raw, and cooked chicken too - the boy is going to end up gaining weight on this diet

I can't wait for Lucky to be all better and everyone to be back on raw again :cross:

 

[carolina]

:cross:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And GO BUGSY! Did you offer any to Hope? Any hope there for some raw chunks of chicken?

Unfortunately she was on the top of the cat tree, and I was just not up for the mess :lol3::lol3::lol3:
Bugsy is easier - he sets guard by the kitchen - not stupid or anything, you know? :lol3::lol3::lol3: Whenever I set foot there, he is steps away :lol3: Mouth open, chin high

Hope is a bit finicky though.....But I think with a bit of help, if I dab some WL on it, and feed her from my finger.... she will get the hang of it - we will see tomorrow - hope so :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

Lauren, I just meant that because she's not digesting the bones, her system might be over-producing acid to try to compensate. This makes them nauseous - and when we put more raw down there, it just makes the situation worse, and the food comes back up. When we moved to three meals a day from two for Tuxedo, his system probably started producing acid in anticipation of the meal - but going without all day meant that when he got dinner, he threw it right up. The suggestion was to feed him a little WL chicken (LITTLE) every couple of hours, half an hour before the meal, and one very small piece about 5 mintues before the meal. It "uses" that acid, so the food at the meal stays down. This is working for him. :nod: ( :cross: :lol3: ).
So when Carolina said Lucky was keeping down the WL, but not the raw meals... it just seemed that with all those bones still in her system, the raw was just making her produce too much acid. We'll see..... but the plain meal combined with the pepcid will hopefully calm everything down, and once those bones are gone, let's hope Carolina can reintroduce the Rad Cat. :nod:

Ok - thank's. That would explain the yellow bile a cat brings up when they wait too many hours between meals. The stomach is preparing for a meal and if the meal does not come - then they vomit. That is why the smaller, more frequent meals for some sensitive cats is needed instead of two big meals a day. This is making sense, thanks!

 

[feralvr]

For Walmart - I am going to pick up some of that chicken tomorrow too. Of course, I will start out with a much smaller amount for my kids - they weigh much less than :king: Bugsy !!! Probably will start off with 1/4 of an ounce. This would be a wonderful addition to the kids daily meals as a snack. I will probably have to use the WL as a topper to get them interested but maybe not. We will see.

YAY FOR LUCKY TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The cooked chicken is working and will help those bones move along :nod: For another good day tomorrow for the rincess: AND on bypassing Hope for the chicken while she was on the cat tree!!!! Good thinking, momma . Nothing worse then projectile vomit from the top of a cat tree :nothappy: