This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

[carolina]

Bugsy's Slow Intro to Whole Prey Feeding

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Tired of us yet?

Hope Not! Day 17 Here we come!

Day 17 Started well, and I am hoping it will continue like this

Lucky Ate her 3 treats

Yeah - making momma proud!! This time I made them of Rad Cat Turkey, and flattened them before serving - I serve the treats sprinkled in Halo powder, and also put the powder around it.... They were flat, but nice and juicy

I also serve them before I serve the kibbles, so I work with her hunger - since she ate all three for me, I will be serving 4 tonight

Her kibbles were served on the slow feed, and she ate a very good meal - the ratio was 75% EVO, 25% Proplan

She did take a break for some water, but came back for more. Ate almost between 1/8 cup and 1/4 cup - more towards a 1/4, and kept all in. The slow feed makes her eat very slowly and safely - it is here to stay now.

It AMAZING to see now how drying kibbles are - Hope and Bugsy are barely drinking any water..... While Lucky HAS to have a considerable amount of water DURING her meal otherwise she can't even finish it

When you feed kibbles to all, you don't really notice these things..... But then when you have side by side comparisons.....

Hope and Bugsy had 75% Lamb 25% Turkey today and loved it. One thing I am noticing about the lamb, is that it is quite bloody. Well, not sure if bloody or juicy - but there is quite a bit of juice in there when served. I read that a lot of blood can make them throw up..... But so far, they have eaten it without a problem - even Bugsy is doing FANTASTIC on it. They loved their meal, and it took very little fortiflora to get them to finish it.
Hope is getting to be quite the carnivore..... She actually finished her meal today, and went to stalk Bugsy..... He was eating..... and all of the sudden Then BAM - she slaps him right on the face!

He just looked at her Like

and went on eating.... When he was done she proceeded to polish his plate clean

Bad Bad girl

She is almost 1/2 his size and eating almost as much as he is eating

I don't know who is pooping what here, but the poop-o-meter is peeeeeeerfect!

Bugsy has not hacked again - they are all good!!

Wonderful report all the way around!  Maybe Hope is trying to help Bugsy lose weight

 

[feralvr]

I am leaning towards the first one too! Plus.... the price is awesome
I do have a digital scale, but the problem I have with it, is that it seems that it fluctuates a little depending how I position Bugsy on my lap - if I bend my back backwards, for example, or if I lean forward..... and he is SO big, there is no way to be in the same position..... Bugsy not only is chubby, but he is looooong!
You know those huge maine coons you see in pictures? Yeah - Bugsy is like that - he is a big kitty :lol3:

WOW I just read your report that Bugsy weighs a little over 20 lbs. BIG BOY BUGSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A lot of gorgeous, that one :nod: My scale will automatically lock on to the weight after a few seconds. You just stand perfectly straight and still (holding whichever cat :lol3 and then you just step off and read the weight. It is one of those BMI smart scales. Larry got it from a Health show he was working on. It is great. So, yes, you would need the baby scale if your digital scale doesn't to that.....

 

[feralvr]

Bugsy's Slow Intro to Whole Prey Feeding

I SOOOO needed a laugh tonight!!!! Thank Bugsy for me :rub: :rub: That is just hysterical -


LOVE THE GOOD REPORT for today and NO..... Never tired of your journaling about this incredible raw journey. WOW JUST WOW - on how well they are doing. I wonder if they will be getting bigger (I don't mean fatter ) and stronger like HULKS..... :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Day 17 dinner​

Go Lucky ​

Yeah for my girl!!! Lucky had....... SIX - SIX treats tonight - and........ She ate them all I decided to double the qty every so often now so she has more raw, less kibbles...... And like that we go until she fills her belly with raw and forgets about the kibbles!
I am still coating VERY well with Halo, and there is a lot of halo sprinkled all over, but the meat is there, and she chews and chews and chews..... and goes for more Even before she licks the halo powder on its own I think we have hope here :blobmir:

She ate her kibbles well too, but not at first, as she had eaten the treats already, and took a little break..... I guess it was a bit filling for her :nod:
But she did come back within the allowed time, and ate a good meal - again, between 1/8 and /14 cup :bigthumb:

Hope an Bugsy had an EXCELLENT meal!!!
They barely needed any fortiflora!
Hope to start, and an extra sprinkle and Bugsy to finish... nothing, not a speckle was left on the plates
My little carnivores making momma proud!

I am SO impressed with Bugsy - I thought I was going to go slow with this guy..... Nah :lol3::lol3::lol3: He is handling the transition to new proteins like any other cat - like a champ! 25% of the new food on the 1st day, 50% on the 2nd, 75% on the 3rd, and voila - the boy is ready to go!

Tomorrow we will have introduced them already to rabbit, turkey and lamb

 

[carolina]

Yeah on the lamb.
Just a note about RadCat lamb--it has considerably more fat in it than the chicken or turkey.  Which may be reflected in the BM and your kitties' degree of hunger.  (Hunger is not the same as appetite.)
Ritz loves rabbit, but it's a very lean protein source so she is even more hungry than usual.
I avoid lamb because of Ritz's (and mine) weight issues.  Though I do feed her pork, which she loves.
GO cats!

Here is a shocker of a lifetime:

The owner of Rad Cat called me with the Calorie content for their Lamb and Turkey foods:
To put it into perspective:
Nature's Variety Rabbit: 65 Calories/oz
Rad Cat Lamb: 51.70 Calories/oz
Rad Cat Turkey: 32.2 Calories/oz
Primal Rabbit: 34 Calories/oz

Never, in a million years, I would thought the Rad Cat Lamb had less calories than NV's Rabbit.... but there you have it!
Just one more example why it is important to me, to rotate proteins.... If I kept feeding Bugsy Turkey all the time, I would be way underfeeding him.... But by rotating brands and protein...... he will be covered.
I am not a bit concerned about the lamb now - but I am impressed as I thought it would be more than NV Rabbit for sure :dk:

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Carolina

Originally Posted by Ritz

Yeah on the lamb.
Just a note about RadCat lamb--it has considerably more fat in it than the chicken or turkey.  Which may be reflected in the BM and your kitties' degree of hunger.  (Hunger is not the same as appetite.)
Ritz loves rabbit, but it's a very lean protein source so she is even more hungry than usual.
I avoid lamb because of Ritz's (and mine) weight issues.  Though I do feed her pork, which she loves.
GO cats!

Here is a shocker of a lifetime:

The owner of Rad Cat called me with the Calorie content for their Lamb and Turkey foods:
To put it into perspective:
Nature's Variety Rabbit: 65 Calories/oz
Rad Cat Lamb: 51.70 Calories/oz
Rad Cat Turkey: 32.2 Calories/oz
Primal Rabbit: 34 Calories/oz

Never, in a million years, I would thought the Rad Cat Lamb had less calories than NV's Rabbit.... but there you have it!
Just one more example why it is important to me, to rotate proteins.... If I kept feeding Bugsy Turkey all the time, I would be way underfeeding him.... But by rotating brands and protein...... he will be covered.
I am not a bit concerned about the lamb now - but I am impressed as I thought it would be more than NV Rabbit for sure

Cindy, Carolina, why are you even bothering yourself with calorie counts? It can't be for the purpose of maintaining weight, because then you'd need a breakdown of calories from protein, calories from fat and calories from carbs, since it's *only* that last group (which shouldn't even be in the foods anyway) that drastically affects weight. (Protein calories are always used, either to fuel tissue and general body repair or for energy, and feline fat requirements exceed 25% of their diet, so those calories are getting used up, too.) And Cindy, you should totally add lamb to Ritz's rotation. Weight is your issue, not hers, remember? <<<hugs>>>

Also, Carolina, juiciness is GOOD and certainly not something to worry about. (The only time blood can cause vomiting is if you feed it separately and in large amounts... i.e. filling a bowl and putting it down like a treat.)

Regards.

AC

 

[carolina]

Cindy, Carolina, why are you even bothering yourself with calorie counts? It can't be for the purpose of maintaining weight, because then you'd need a breakdown of calories from protein, calories from fat and calories from carbs, since it's *only* that last group (which shouldn't even be in the foods anyway) that drastically affects weight. (Protein calories are always used, either to fuel tissue and general body repair or for energy, and feline fat requirements exceed 25% of their diet, so those calories are getting used up, too.) And Cindy, you should totally add lamb to Ritz's rotation. Weight is your issue, not hers, remember? >>

Also, Carolina, juiciness is GOOD and certainly not something to worry about. (The only time blood can cause vomiting is if you feed it separately and in large amounts... i.e. filling a bowl and putting it down like a treat.)

Regards.

AC

AC - I had already called her days ago..... and she called me back today - so I posted..... IF I was concerned about OVERfeeding Bugsy and lamb and calories....... I don't think I would be feeding him that.... would I :scratch:
But I had this information, and I thought it was interesting to post - as it was a shock to me - comparing the lamb from Rad Cat to NV's Rabbit.
I got a bit concerned with the low calories of the turkey and UNDERfeeding Bugsy, but since I am rotating the food, I don't care..... (I based his needs on NV's calories in the beginning, and Rad Cat Turkey is pretty much 1/2 of that....)

Thank you for clarifying the issue with the blood :bigthumb: I got concerned for a moment - but I also read that quite a bit of nutrients are in there, so I was confused :scratch:

 

[otto]

I have this one:

How do you like it?

I like it fine. I checked it's accuracy by weighing a 4 pound box of baking soda before I weighed any of the cats. :lol3:

The cats did not like being put on it, at first, but they got used to it pretty quickly and now just stand there until I tell them they can get off.

 

[carolina]

Day 17 Late night Dinner​

Poop-o-meter maintenance required ​

I caught Bugsy straining on the litterbox today He tried and tried to go.... But just a tiny little piece, pea size came out.... I inspected and there was blood in the outside - I think from all the straining my poor little boy!
As we say in Brasil, with Bugsy, it is either 8, or 80 - there is no middle ground :lol3:

He is uncomfortable - I saw him (trying to, as he can't really reach :slant licking his bottom several times after that ....
Here is what I decided to do: I gave him 1/4 tsp of Miralax to help him through the night, and he will also be on 1/16tsp of guar gum mixed with every meal. I am also going to give it to Hope for a while.

Once he poops, I leave him on the fiber only - for now, he will be taking Miralax as well.....
God.... Bugsy is some kitty! :lol3:

Now onto better things, shall we?

Lucky making me proud again!
I am making now 6 treats per meal - this meal she ate 5, and chewed 1, and spit it out. But she ate FIVE
Thing is, these treats are quite filling, as she eats them, and doesn't really want the kibbles anymore :dk: But they are not nearly enough for a meal..... I mean.... I would need to make a TON of them for her! So.... Today for example she ate a tiny bit of kibble a bite or two, and was gone for water - to not come back. About 10 minutes later I had to bring her back in for some more.
What I think I am going to do now, Is 6 halo treats, and one without it - I will see if I can trick her into eating raw meat without anything on it.... so I can really start reducing her kibble intake and increasing the raw :nod:

Bugsy and Hope had a mostly Turkey tonight, as I was running out of lamb. I increased Hope's and Bugsy's meals ever so slightly - Hope from 1.92oz to 2oz per meal, and Bugsy from 2.25 to 2.33oz per meal - that will make a flat 6 and 7 oz/day respectively.
Bugsy got the taste of Miralax and the fiber, I think, as he was calling for fortiflora..... but he did eat everything, and so did little Hope.

Let's hope the fiber and Miralax work now..... and he poops..... I also hope that it is not too much.... I never know what these things are going to do to Bugsy..... Hopefully just help him out a bit :cross:

 

[ritz]

Carolina, thanks for the information.  Just goes to show that there can be variances across brands; not all brands are created equal.

Actually, because of what AC and others have (lovingly) pounded into my thick, disordered brain, I am no longer concerned about calories but I am about quantity and hunger.  Ritz still seems (to me) inordinately hungry, some days more so than others, on 5.5 ounces of meat+liver+NOM and some days bone.  She lived in the streets for the first four to five months of her life, so that may impact her appetite.  She seems healthy and active enough.  But Ritz is at the awkward, social maturation age of 2.5 years, and has been PMSing these past two weeks.  (Visiting cat probably didn't help.)

Ritz is going for a wellness check, including evaluation of her gingivitis, in two weeks.   I'd also like to get base-line blood work to rule out any metabolic problems.  I will get a valid weight on her then as well as the vet's opinion about her weight.  He knows I have body dysmorphia and anorexia, and he knows I feed Ritz raw (not thrilled about it, but didn't react in horror, either). 

I'll adjust the quantity at that time after consulting with AC (pm). 

 

[auntie crazy]

Question for you Carolina?

Can you verify that these are the two freeze-dried products you've tried for your cats?

Halo Liv-a-Littles Natural Treats for Dogs and Cats, Freeze-Dried Chicken Breast Protein and Stella and Chewy's Chick, Chick Chicken Freeze-Dried Dinner

The S&C Chicken Dinner is what gave Bugsy loose stools, and the Halo treat is what you are currently using as an enticement, correct?

Thanks!

AC

 

[carolina]

Question for you Carolina?

Can you verify that these are the two freeze-dried products you've tried for your cats?

Halo Liv-a-Littles Natural Treats for Dogs and Cats, Freeze-Dried Chicken Breast Protein
and Stella and Chewy's Chick, Chick Chicken Freeze-Dried Dinner

The S&C Chicken Dinner is what gave Bugsy loose stools, and the Halo treat is what you are currently using as an enticement, correct?

Thanks!

AC

Yes, and no.
The first one is correct.
Halo Liv-a-Littles Natural Treats I give to Lucky for Enticement, and they do not cause a reaction to Bugsy - he doesn't get it on a regular basis though.
The S&C that gave him diarrhea was the carnivore Kisses - the freeze dry treats, which in theory, would be the equivalent to Halo... 100% chicken, etc - not the dinners, seen here: Carnivore Kisses
The only one who ever tried the dinner was lucky, and she was not a fan.

 

[auntie crazy]

Thank you, that clears things up for me (it never occurred to me to look under dogs for the treats)!

AC

 

[carolina]

Day 18 Report​

Happy Friday the 13th Everyone ​

Well, Bugsy has not pooped yet, so he got another 1/4 tsp of Miralax, which I will keep him on 2x a day only until he poops, and 1/16 tsp of guar gum, which he will get per meal on a consistent basis from now on. Hope will get the same. It just can't hurt - it is the same dosage and fiber Dr. Pierson gives to her cats, so...... Should be fine fine.

I will keep you posted on when he poops :cross:

Today their meal was 100% lamb - So far they have been introduced to rabbit, Lamb and turkey.
They will eat lamb all day today, and tomorrow I will rotate lamb and Rabbit :bigthumb:

Lucky Lucky ate six treats today, and I had a 7th treat that was bare, not covered in halo - which, of course was left untouched. She is not dumb that one :lol3: I will keep making them though. :nod:
I am considering now increasing the treats 1 per meal - 7 the next meal, 8 the next... and so on.....
She is eating now without any reservations - go straight to them :nod: Or course they have lots of halo in them, but they are very chewy nonetheless.
She is also as of today on 100% EVO
Girl is getting meat and almost no carbs
She had a great meal, kept it all down, and is doing awesome

So Far so good!

I am now on a quest of of getting some food for Hope and Bugsy here - I am in some serious love with Rad Cat.... and have come to the conclusion that I do NOT want veggies in their meat. PERIOD.
So - I am left with very few choices when commercial foods goes - and commercial it is, as I am not ready, YET - yes, I am going the route of making my own food at some point..... but not now, not so soon. In a few months..........
My choices for now appear to be Rad Cat and Feline's Pride.
I only have 2 choices of protein on Rad Cat due to Bugsy not being able to eat Chicken, and I need more meats in my rotation. Feline's Pride has Duck and Rabbit as well. HUGE risk - Duck has given Bugsy a bad reaction in the past all the same, although I did not try as much as I have chicken, I have to say..... And the darn Rabbit is made with chicken organs Now...... why would they do that with a meat that could so well be used for cats with food intolerance is just beyond my comprehension
My fear is that is I place an order and he has a problem with it..... well.... it is not like I can return, you know? I am pretty much stuck with the meat and out of almost $100 - plus a cat with diarrhea. Sucks all around.
So...... I don't know what to do on this one. :scratch:

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Carolina
...
Lucky...
She is eating now without any reservations - go straight to them

Or course they have lots of halo in them, but they are very chewy nonetheless.
She is also as of today on 100% EVO

Girl is getting meat and almost no carbs

She had a great meal, kept it all down, and is doing awesome

So Far so good!

I am now on a quest of of getting some food for Hope and Bugsy here - I am in some serious love with Rad Cat.... and have come to the conclusion that I do NOT want veggies in their meat. PERIOD.
So - I am left with very few choices when commercial foods goes - and commercial it is, as I am not ready, YET - yes, I am going the route of making my own food at some point..... but not now, not so soon. In a few months..........
My choices for now appear to be Rad Cat and Feline's Pride.
I only have 2 choices of protein on Rad Cat due to Bugsy not being able to eat Chicken, and I need more meats in my rotation. Feline's Pride has Duck and Rabbit as well. HUGE risk - Duck has given Bugsy a bad reaction in the past all the same, although I did not try as much as I have chicken, I have to say..... And the darn Rabbit is made with chicken organs

Now...... why would they do that with a meat that could so well be used for cats with food intolerance is just beyond my comprehension

My fear is that is I place an order and he has a problem with it..... well.... it is not like I can return, you know? I am pretty much stuck with the meat and out of almost $100 - plus a cat with diarrhea. Sucks all around.
So...... I don't know what to do on this one.

You're in a pickle.

I've been there, when I made my first 50 pound ($150+) Hare-Today order (I decided to go for it and haven't looked back since).

Since the Halo chicken causes Bugsy no problems, it's unlikely that chicken itself is truly an issue for him. So you've got that. Plus, by now Bugsy's system should be getting stronger, so what bothered him before may not bother him now or in the future.

If you place the order, can you just feed the foods to Lucky and Hope if they don't happen to work for Bugsy?

BTW - AWESOME update on Lucky!!!!!!

AC

 

[carolina]

You're in a pickle. :nod: I've been there, when I made my first 50 pound ($150+) Hare-Today order (I decided to go for it and haven't looked back since).

Since the Halo chicken causes Bugsy no problems, it's unlikely that chicken itself is truly an issue for him. So you've got that. Plus, by now Bugsy's system should be getting stronger, so what bothered him before may not bother him now or in the future.

If you place the order, can you just feed the foods to Lucky and Hope if they don't happen to work for Bugsy?

BTW - AWESOME update on Lucky!!!!!! :bigthumb:

AC

Well..... Here is the thing AC - Halo is the ONLY chicken that hasn't given him an issue. And I am afraid of making that commitments generalizing that as all chicken, you see? Don't ask me why Halo doesn't give him an issue - I don't know. But everything thing else I tried, does - including the worst explosive diarrhea he has ever had in his life - with raw chicken. And that was not with a commercial chicken patty or anything - it was with a small piece of raw chicken....
Cooked chicken - bad. Canned chicken - bad. Kibbles with chicken - bad. Raw chicken - bad. Stella and Chewy - bad. Duck - bad.
Have I tried since the switch? To be fair, no - sure, I agree..... his system might be stronger...... but he might still have a big problem.....
Thing is, I don't have that much freezer space either..... And with Lucky not eating yet, that would go to Hope only.
It is so frustrating that even their turkey formula is mixed :wife: Can't people get it straight?
I guess I am going to place a small order and see what happens - I have been trying to contact them to see the percentage of those organs - aside from the heart, but nobody picks up the phone

 

[ldg]

Wow, I missed SO MUCH and I think it's been less than 24 hours since I was on!

on Lucky! Carolina, that is AWESOME!

I wonder if the poop problem is the heavy bone content in NV catching up with Bugsy? But WOW - what a difference a couple of weeks makes, hunh? To go from worry about runny poops and soft stools to... Bugsy being constipated?

the miralax and guar gum make him more comfortable and get him back on track!

And what about ordering the Primal Rabbit? Doesn't the Pet SUpplies Plus carry it? They make it with the whole rabbit! (Except the head and feet). I know it has that little bit of vegetables in there.... :dk: But it would be "whole prey" proportioned, as opposed to the NV. :nod:

 

[carolina]

Well.... So much for that - no way I am paying $45 shipping for 10lbs of food
PLUS - the price is advertised as $6.78 on the page, but then when you add t the cart it goes to $7.80
Not right in my book :rasp:

That would bring the cost for me to almost $15/lb....... nope I pass.
I will look for another solution for my kids - may the research continue! :nod:

 

[ldg]

Primal rabbit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!