Taking a step back …. Advice welcome

[rin68nyr]

So we have Lion, approximately 8 years old (give or take a couple of years)…who likes other cats. He was the newcomer a couple of years ago. Our resident cat at the time was not happy with him, but within 3 months, could tolerate him without supervision. That resident cat passed away almost a year ago, and we had been thinking about finding him a companion. Long story short…just before the weather got too cold this fall, we got permission from our neighbors to take in their less than a year old mother (we’ve named her Harri) with her kitten (we named him Venom), about 12 weeks. All of the cats like us humans, and will play, and seek out our laps. We kept them separated, and after 2 weeks, got Harri spayed. Kept them apart another 2 weeks… all the while switching their areas so they could smell each other. Then we started introducing them. Lion is eager to meet them…he and Venom get along just fine. Harri only wants to attack Lion. We always wait a couple of weeks between tries, and wait until after they’ve been fed. We get Harri playing and then let Lion approach as he’s ready. No fail, as soon as she detects Lion, she’s in attack mode. She hasn’t hurt him…she just chases until he runs for cover. we could try the feeding on opposite sides of the door thing, but we can’t give treats to Lion (that we know of) because he’s on a prescription diet to prevent bladder stones, My question is, could this be because she’s a protective mom? Even though the 2 boys get along fine…is she protective of food? The neighbors weren’t feeding them, and she was real thin when we took them in…kitten has always been plump and well fed. He still sometimes suckles. If need be, we have a good home waiting for him. Venom does get in front of Harri even when we feed them both at the same time, he keeps thinking the other bowl is better, shoving her out, and then she goes to the empty one..,and put it on repreat. Same if we give them both toys…mom’s is always better, and she defers to him. When he’s not with her, she loves playing uninterrupted. Any ideas?

thanks!

 

[Furballsmom]

If need be, we have a good home waiting for him.

Other than Venom being a piggy when it comes to moms food, I don't know why you'd need to rehome him. You're thinking about doing this in order to give her more freedom with food and playtime?

However, that won't help Lion. Since his physical health is somewhat compromised, that also means he needs to be able to live in an environment that has less stress. She could be behaving that way because of her kitten, or because she's female and feels she needs to protect her territory, but it doesn't really matter.

Rather than rehoming Venom, I personally would suggest rehoming her, not because she's doing anything wrong. That's just the point, I believe she is what she is, and would likely be better as an only cat particularly when it comes to food. You need to separate them during feeding times so she can eat her fill in peace.

In the meanwhile, try some calming products for Lion - he's under too much stress.

Also, these might be useful even if the one is written for kidney kitties - if he isn't getting it already, I'd suggest the canned version if there is one for his prescription.

Tips To Increase Your Cat’s Water Intake – TheCatSite Articles

This is from todaysveterinarynurse .com the ins and outs of managing feline chronic kidney disease
Water intake is of utmost importance in all kidney patients. Feeding canned diets that are high in moisture (>75% as-fed basis), adding water to the existing canned or dry diet, and making sure all water bowls are cleaned daily may encourage water consumption. Circulating water fountains can be provided for cats that like to drink running or dripping water, and multiple water bowls should be offered throughout the home. Also, the size and depth of water bowls may need to be considered, and different types of water (e.g., distilled, warm, cold) may need to be tried. Canned diets are preferred because of their water content. If further diluting diets to increase water consumption, it must be taken into consideration that the calorie:volume ratio is also being diluted, and pets may need to consume a greater volume of food to maintain body weight.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I would guess there may be some 'mom' protection stuff going on still. Venom is still pretty young. I would give that aspect more time, especially since Venom still suckles on Harri. Don't push the introductions between Lion and Harri just yet. But, let Lion have time with Venom, and Harri time with Venom too, just not all three together.

I don't think a few treats for Lion is going to make that big of a difference with him being on prescription food for bladder stones. There are even treats out there for that purpose, if you feel inclined to go that route.

Don't know what introduction process you are using, but here is TCS's version in case there is any help in it. I think as Venom gets older, your current concerns will dissipate.
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – TheCatSite Articles

 

[rin68nyr]

Thanks. Lion does have canned food that I always add water to, and a few options for water around the house. The reason I’m considering rehoming Venom is because he is more flexible with other cats (the other home also has a cat), and because she’s harder to find a home for since she’s now a year old, and harder to get along with other cats. You may be right about her needing to. be an only cat, but I’d like to give her a chance.

 

[Furballsmom]

She's only going to get older. With that said, keep Venom away from mum's food so she can recuperate her body condition, give Lion space and time away from her along with some calming products and Cat Music (I can't emphasize enough that you need to handle the stress factor for him).

I realize that there's a possibility Lion and she may get along after a while, but females are notorious for being territorial, and until such time he needs special treatment. Hopefully she starts leaving him alone soon.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I think that using the lickable treats would be ok, in moderation. It would actually be adding more liquid to Lion's diet.

 

[Alldara]

Feed Harri for awhile with a closed door and no other cats. This is a great time for the boys to play together.

The agression can be food related, as you said she went hungry a lot. She's not going to hurt her baby, but to add another cat to her (Lion) when she's already food-insecure, then it's no wonder she would attack! There's not enough food here she thinks. She's thinking, "I can't feed myself and my baby with this other cat around!"

Harri will also need to be spayed, and I would wait until after spay to introduce her. But you can take a towel and rub Lion's smell on it and set her food dish on it. She will associate Lion with getting food.

Cat calming music will help Lion, and perhaps some Feliway.

 

[rin68nyr]

I forgot about cat music…I’ll do that! Harri is already spayed, we brought her in shortly after we got her. My son had Lion sleeping in his room, and Harri came in and laid down on the other side of his room for a bit. Don’t know if she realized he was there, but we’re calling it a win.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Oh, she knew. They always know. However, not seeing Lion gave her confidence. Of such small steps, long journeys are made.

 

[Alldara]

I forgot about cat music…I’ll do that! Harri is already spayed, we brought her in shortly after we got her. My son had Lion sleeping in his room, and Harri came in and laid down on the other side of his room for a bit. Don’t know if she realized he was there, but we’re calling it a win.

That's wonderful! Really a beautiful step. She could smell and hear him there and like the above poster said, not seeing him gave her confidence.

Keep building her food security and her confidence through play. She will keep smelling Lion on her baby too and seeing her kitten come back happy and healthy from playtime will teach her that Lion is safe.

That was a huge sign that this can go very well with some patience, time and learning.

 

[Alldara]

Oh! And soon you'll be watching for signs between playing and fighting

 

[Mamanyt1953]

And don't, when the time comes, be discouraged if there are times of some hissing, and even swatting. That's perfectly normal, even with bonded cats. It isn't a fight, it's a heated discussion, and sometimes a cat's gotta say what a cat's gotta say!

 

[rin68nyr]

LOL we have 2 rooms the cats can be placed in that have water, litter pans etc. The rest of the house is open concept, so if there’s a cat out, one of those doors needs to be open for litter access. My husband got up and fed the cats this morning, letting me sleep in, and then went to play golf (in January!). I woke up and both doors were shut, so I opened one, and started doing stuff around the house. Lion came to say hello, and then Venom, and I continued doing stuff for 10 minutes, and all was quiet. Then went into the kitchen, where both of those doors are, and I see Bandit loafing under the table. Apparently, Lion was already out, and my husband forgot to open the other door for Lion. I had put a cooler bag on the floor, and Lion was loafing on the other side…they couldn’t see each other’s faces. I pet both of them, and left them there while I did some work nearby. After a few minutes, Bandit slowly made her way toward Lion and when they came face to face, she started sniffing him. At that point, Lion felt threatened, and started meowing, in that upset tone. I went over and pet them both, then picked up Bandit, gave her some loving, and then put her in one of the rooms. Accidental success!

 

[Furballsmom]

Love this!!

 

[rin68nyr]

By the way…Bandit=Harri…there’s debate about her name, and at the moment, they’re interchangeable…

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Yeah, a LOT of that goes on when naming cats!

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. I don’t want to rain on the parade here, but if Lion is vocalizing, he is very stressed, which isn’t good for him or the living situation. You got really lucky that situation didn’t end up with someone getting hurt.

The female cat is acting the way she is because she has learned that behavior. It is her reaction to Lion now and vice versa.

I strongly recommend you go back to square one, with no visual and scent swapping for a couple of weeks, then feeding on opposite sides of the door etc. introductions with adult cats can take a year. Every negative encounter sets you way back because you have to undo their responses that they learn so quickly.

It’s important to remember that cats live in the present only. Reactions are learned behaviors and instinctive. They aren’t thinking about what they do before they do it. They just do it.

I think you could easily keep all three, just go slow with it all.

I think it is great you took these two cats in. I agree it is much harder to find a good home for an adult cat. I personally would hate to see her bounced around again.

Make sure you have feliway diffusers going especially where the other cats are.

Hang in there, it will work out if you take the time.

It took about 6 months before I could let my introduced new adult male around my elderly female.

 

[silent meowlook]

Cat Introductions Part 2: Welcome Home!

A note about this series: Introducing cats to other animals can be a tricky affair. That said, it can also be smooth sailing, with very little potential conflict. And, it could fall somewhere between the two. Every animal is an individual, as is every human and every household. That’s exactly...

www.jacksongalaxy.com

 

[Alldara]

LOL we have 2 rooms the cats can be placed in that have water, litter pans etc. The rest of the house is open concept, so if there’s a cat out, one of those doors needs to be open for litter access. My husband got up and fed the cats this morning, letting me sleep in, and then went to play golf (in January!). I woke up and both doors were shut, so I opened one, and started doing stuff around the house. Lion came to say hello, and then Venom, and I continued doing stuff for 10 minutes, and all was quiet. Then went into the kitchen, where both of those doors are, and I see Bandit loafing under the table. Apparently, Lion was already out, and my husband forgot to open the other door for Lion. I had put a cooler bag on the floor, and Lion was loafing on the other side…they couldn’t see each other’s faces. I pet both of them, and left them there while I did some work nearby. After a few minutes, Bandit slowly made her way toward Lion and when they came face to face, she started sniffing him. At that point, Lion felt threatened, and started meowing, in that upset tone. I went over and pet them both, then picked up Bandit, gave her some loving, and then put her in one of the rooms. Accidental success!

That's excellent! They made good progress, Lion let you know when he was finished and you supported them in finishing the interaction positively.

Bandit/Harri began learning if he makes that sound to back off (because you removed her) and both learned they could have a an issue and walk away from it.

Cats are smart creatures. They have memories, even mice and rats have memories! How Long Can A Cat Remember A Person? - My British Shorthair.

They're also very great at learning (when they want to!). It only took once or twice of a hand on our young cats' chests to stop them peaking into the litter at one another.

 

[rin68nyr]

Hi again! We’ve been site swapping and face rubbing, and interchanging Venom between Bandit and Lion. Everyone seems fairly relaxed. I’m waiting on a folding wall we ordered before we start close feeding. We’ve done some on opposite sides of a closed wooden door, and a closed door that has a glass panel (to our all season porch). Not too close yet. They seem ok with that. Bandit does sometimes peek under the door if Lion is in a room, and maybe paw under it, but most hissing and upset meowing has stopped. We’re content to take it slow, and still working on letting Bandit realize she doesn’t have to worry about food anymore. Her fur was short and kind of stiff/wiry, but is becoming much softer now, and she’s filling out a bit. She is such a good mom, and kept Venom healthy and robust the whole time she was living outside!. He’s growing fast!

I brought Lion in for his checkup, and the other 2 were out when we got back. Bandit wanted to look in the carrier, and chased us trying to look in, but I took him straight to my son’s room so he could chill with him after that trauma (not really, but Lion sees it that way). I have no idea what she was going to do, and didn’t want to take chances. But she’s getting more comfortable, starting to curl up on our laps.

Baby steps!