Swollen lip / Crusty is FIV+ and has a few infections. Needs antibiotics, but skeptical of dosing.

[savethekitty]

I have noticed that Crusty has a swollen upper lip.

Not sure if there are cats that may have their lip protruding a bit or if this is inflammation. 

He does not want to go into the trap I set for him. I also grabbed him and tried to put him in a big dog carrier, but he is a professional escapist and would spread his legs and would not let me push him inside. 

So, until I catch him and am able to get a vet look at him for his possible ringworm and this lip, I am asking you guys what you think. 

IMG_20160806_104908.jpg

• savethekitty
• Aug 6, 2016

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• savethekitty
• Aug 6, 2016

IMG_20160806_110137.jpg

• savethekitty
• Aug 6, 2016

 

[yummy520]

TUNAFISH, the whole can! It works! He's a cutey!

 

[savethekitty]

TUNAFISH, the whole can! It works! He's a cutey!

I had tuna inside. He is suspicious of it since he was already caught by some good samaritan and was TNRed. 

He also has pus coming out of his left ear (it stinks). He must be in pain too from the infection. Gotta act fast. 

 

[msaimee]

If he won't go back into a humane trap or enter a pet carrier, you could try to throw a small towel or blanket over him, scoop him up,  and then drop him into a pet carrier that is standing upright and vertical nearby with the door open. Is there someone else who the cat feels comfortable around who can assist you? It works better with two people--one to throw the blanket over the cat and the other to quickly close the door on the carrier.

If you're unable to get him to a vet, you can order Fishmox, which is Amoxicillin, online and mix the antibiotic into tuna fish. I can PM you the link and also give you dosing information. 

Is he still eating normally? The danger of any kind of infection around the mouth area would be if it interfered with his ability to eat. Good luck.

 

[savethekitty]

 
If he won't go back into a humane trap or enter a pet carrier, you could try to throw a small towel or blanket over him, scoop him up,  and then drop him into a pet carrier that is standing upright and vertical nearby with the door open. Is there someone else who the cat feels comfortable around who can assist you? It works better with two people--one to throw the blanket over the cat and the other to quickly close the door on the carrier.

If you're unable to get him to a vet, you can order Fishmox, which is Amoxicillin, online and mix the antibiotic into tuna fish. I can PM you the link and also give you dosing information. 

Is he still eating normally? The danger of any kind of infection around the mouth area would be if it interfered with his ability to eat. Good luck.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I messaged you for the info on Fishmox. Thanks a lot!

 

[piano cat]

My own cat had a spot like that, it was cancer.  Vet said more common in black cats, which she was, due to increased melanoma in them..

 

[savethekitty]

UPDATE: He is FIV+ and has a couple of infections  

 

[msaimee]

I am very sorry to hear this. If he has several infections, then he is already advanced in the disease feline AIDS. The most merciful course of action you can take may be to euthanize him. He will have nothing but suffering ahead of him, and unless you would be able to take him into your house and keep him isolated from other cats, he could infect them. He will get other mouth infections and you will not be able to properly care for him if you cant handle him to give him antibiotics. I lost my beloved feral cat in March to AIDS. He had such a bad infection in his mouth that he was unable to eat and I was unable to give him antibiotics in his food. I got him to the vet and he was in extreme pain, and the vet recommended euthanization. It was hard to do, but the right thing to do. I pray for peace and guidance for you during this time and also for your kitty.

 

[savethekitty]

Update:

Today I finally was able to catch Crusty and get him into the carrier. 

The vet did the Leukimia/FIV test and came back negative for leukimia and postive for FIV.

He was vaccinated for leukimia at least and needs a booster in 3 weeks (if I can manage to get him into the carrier again)

I am not giving up on him despite this diagnostic and his current state of infections. 

He has an ear infection, mouth infection with inflammation and a skin infection. 

For the ear, they flushed them clean and administered a first dose of EnteDerm which is a combined anti inflammatory, antibiotic, etc.. 

He had pus coming out of one ear, so it must be somewhat severe infection right? anyways, the vet said I could put this cream into his ears every other day until the 15ml tube is gone. 

The manufacturer (Vetone) suggest for mild inflammation to give once daily or once a week. (all over the place) . Then for severe conditions it may be applied as often as 2 or 3 times daily. 

So what should I do? 

Next. They prescribed Cephalexin 250mg for the skin condition (which they just looked at and didn't do any test to see whether it was ringworm or scabbies) 

The vet said it was possibly irritation cause by scratching and fighting, but how can he scratch the back of his head between his shoulder blades where he has more skin exposed? Not trusting this vet at all so far. 

She said this antibiotic should help with the skin and the mouth infection and that I need to give 1 pill (250mg) once daily for 15 days. This is, as I looked it up, way too much. The recommended dose for this antibiotic is 10mg to 15mg per pound and this cat is around 10lbs every 8 or 12 hours. So not sure about giving him such a high dose of 250mg at once every day. Suggestions on dosing this?

These are my immediate concerns. Dosing.

Thanks for any input! 

 

[msaimee]

If you have questions about the dosing, call the vet in the AM and clarify. Different types of antibiotics are dosed differently.

I forgot--is Crusty neutered? If he hasn't been neutered, then he will likely fight other males for mates. Does he roam? If he fights and bites, he can infect them with HIV, and they will also eventually get Feline AIDS. Most vets recommend that if a caregiver is going to keep an HIV cat, that the caretaker bring the cat indoors and keep it isolated from other cats. Did your vet discuss this with you? If Crusty wanders off, he may get new infections (they become more frequent and severe as the disease progresses) and if you're not there to care for him, he will have a difficult time. I hope you're able to get him inside somewhere soon and that whatever time he has left will be good.

 

[savethekitty]

He was TNRed, not by me, but someone caught him and returned him to the community here. 

He is not an aggressive cat at all. In fact he is shy and non confrontational. This is from the interaction I have seen with the other 3 males that come to feed here and he mainly lives outside my door. 

You open the door and he is looking at you with those sad eyes. He wants to be loved desperately. I am torn. 

My rescue is very aggressive and can't tolerate other males. He will attack him if I let him inside. 

I would adopt him If I could avoid fighting, but in such a tiny condo with an aggressive cat a fight is just a matter of time. It would not be fair for my rescue to bring an FIV+ cat if there is a high chance they will be fighting. 

I truly want to adopt him myself and love him until his last day on earth. I am devastated. 

 

[msaimee]

Have you tried contacting the Humane Society or other animal rescue groups in your area to see if they have any foster or adoption programs available for FIV positive cats? I know there are caregivers for FIV positive cats in the cat loving cmmunity, and some have posted on this forum. I hope someone can give you some direction and ideas. You are in such a difficult situation, my heart goes out to you. It's clear you love this cat very much and want what is best for him. I hope you are able to find someone to care for Crusty. Since he is neutered and gentle he has a better chance than most cats in his situation to find a home. Thanks for taking such good care of him.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I am so very sorry that Crusty has tested + for FIV.  The hardest part is that he is still living outside where he can infect other cats.  I understand you not wanting to bring him into your home as you would need to keep him separated from your other cat.  This would be very hard.  I am uncertain if there is a way to tell at what stage of the disease he is currently in.  He may be able to fight off infections with the help of medication for quite awhile.  Yet there will come a time when the disease will take hold. 

This is a very difficult situation.  I would try very hard to find a rescue that might specialize in FIV + cats.  They might be able to assist you.

Another thought is to build him an enclosure where he cannot go out and wander.  This would be for his safety.  He would have some space to walk about and he would need shelter from the elements.  I would think it would be very important for him to not be wandering around.  There are some internet sites available where you can make your own enclosure or purchase pre made shelters.

These would not be cheap.  You would then need a place for him to get out of the elements and if you have cold winters, he would need a place for warmth. 

Thank goodness he has you to help him.  Knowing what to do is very hard. 

 

[msaimee]

ShadowsRescue has a great idea that didn't even occur to me. If you put together some kind of outdoor enclosure on your deck, porch, or yard, and provided a pet house with either a heating pad inside or a heat-reflecting thermal pad that doesn't require electricity with straw for the cold weather, he could have a safe life. Since he's a stray and not a feral, I think he would adjust to the enclosure. That's a great option to consider if it would be feasible for you. How is he doing? Did the vet clarify the antibiotic dose for you? Prayers to you and Crusty.   

 

[catwoman707]

Thank you for caring for and about this poor guy!!

I am literally shocked to hear a suggestion that euthanization may be the best solution, I absolutely disagree.

FIV is NOT spread by anything other than a deep blood drawing bite, the only ones who fight like this are unneutered male cats, who intend to do great harm.

Your cat nor others outside are in any danger what-so-ever of contracting this, the danger of a feral/homeless stray living outside with FIV is because they are unowned, it is for the cat's well being, not others, they are not at risk, the only chance they would be is if he were a very aggressive fighting cat despite being neutered, there are a few who are, but most will not have to fight again ever as long as it is not to defend themselves.

But an unowned, uncared for positive cat is at risk because of the lack of possibly needing medication if he did contract a virus, as in needing antibiotics to help him get well, as the weakened immune system may struggle to heal on it's own without the help of antibiotic.

I have helped integrate FIV pos and neg cats together several times. What FIV means is that he should be kept healthy with food and clean water daily, and not exposed to diseases/viruses if preventable, because after years of being positive, his immune system will weaken.

It literally does take a long time for the FIV to affect him though.

I would expect he has many years of good life ahead of him, and many live to be ripe old ages too! It is NOT a death sentence.

FELV on the other hand is a different story, but thankfully he is neg

Can I suggest using a pillowcase to take him to the vet?

Swoop fast and tie the top, done Even coaxing him to sit on it when it is gathered and the closed end is spread out, like a circle. Once on it swoop the sides up fast and he is in.

Vet should also know to keep visits to a minimum. Once he is established though the vet should trust you enough that you can call and request this or that if it's ever needed.

Without taking him in.

 

[savethekitty]

 
I am so very sorry that Crusty has tested + for FIV.  The hardest part is that he is still living outside where he can infect other cats.  I understand you not wanting to bring him into your home as you would need to keep him separated from your other cat.  This would be very hard.  I am uncertain if there is a way to tell at what stage of the disease he is currently in.  He may be able to fight off infections with the help of medication for quite awhile.  Yet there will come a time when the disease will take hold. 

This is a very difficult situation.  I would try very hard to find a rescue that might specialize in FIV + cats.  They might be able to assist you.

Another thought is to build him an enclosure where he cannot go out and wander.  This would be for his safety.  He would have some space to walk about and he would need shelter from the elements.  I would think it would be very important for him to not be wandering around.  There are some internet sites available where you can make your own enclosure or purchase pre made shelters.

These would not be cheap.  You would then need a place for him to get out of the elements and if you have cold winters, he would need a place for warmth. 

Thank goodness he has you to help him.  Knowing what to do is very hard. 

I have gathered a list of people who have networks of cat lovers and will be asking whether they know of such a place specializing in FIV cats in south florida. THanks for the suggestion.

As for the enclosure, I can't have anything on my balcony (where the outside door is). Not even a box that can be seen from outside. Rules from the invasive association. 

But I do keep the plates with food and my balcony has become Crusty's home. At least he is protected from people, cars, rain (when it is not raining sideways as it does sometimes here), etc. I sweep every day so he has a clean outside balcony. This is the best I can do for him for now. He is here at my door 24/7 and I can see that he is getting better looking. He is cleaner and it seems like the hair on his back is growing back filling in the empty patches he once had. It has been a few days of antibiotics and his lip is less swollen and his ear does not have any more pus coming out or smells. It looks clean, not 100% but 85% clean. 

He will make a full recovery for sure!!  

 
Thank you for caring for and about this poor guy!!

I am literally shocked to hear a suggestion that euthanization may be the best solution, I absolutely disagree.

FIV is NOT spread by anything other than a deep blood drawing bite, the only ones who fight like this are unneutered male cats, who intend to do great harm.

Your cat nor others outside are in any danger what-so-ever of contracting this, the danger of a feral/homeless stray living outside with FIV is because they are unowned, it is for the cat's well being, not others, they are not at risk, the only chance they would be is if he were a very aggressive fighting cat despite being neutered, there are a few who are, but most will not have to fight again ever as long as it is not to defend themselves.

But an unowned, uncared for positive cat is at risk because of the lack of possibly needing medication if he did contract a virus, as in needing antibiotics to help him get well, as the weakened immune system may struggle to heal on it's own without the help of antibiotic.

I have helped integrate FIV pos and neg cats together several times. What FIV means is that he should be kept healthy with food and clean water daily, and not exposed to diseases/viruses if preventable, because after years of being positive, his immune system will weaken.

It literally does take a long time for the FIV to affect him though.

I would expect he has many years of good life ahead of him, and many live to be ripe old ages too! It is NOT a death sentence.

FELV on the other hand is a different story, but thankfully he is neg

Can I suggest using a pillowcase to take him to the vet?

Swoop fast and tie the top, done Even coaxing him to sit on it when it is gathered and the closed end is spread out, like a circle. Once on it swoop the sides up fast and he is in.

Vet should also know to keep visits to a minimum. Once he is established though the vet should trust you enough that you can call and request this or that if it's ever needed.

Without taking him in.

Thanks for your posts on FIV. You have taught me a lot on the last 2 posts ( on the other thread too with the Russian Blue)

If you read post number 9, you'll see that I was able to get him to the vet! He has been on antibiotics

What I would love to hear is your advise on introducing him to my aggressive rescue cat (who is suspect is his brother). I have a thread about that and your advise could mean a home to this boy.

Thanks a lot everyone!!! 

 

[msaimee]

If you ever do take Crusty inside with your other cat, there is a vaccine available to protect your other cat from HIV. It's only 80% effective, so there is still some risk involved. The main down side is that once a cat is vaccinated, they will always test positive for FIV even if they don't have it. This is mostly a concern for owners of cats who are outdoors because if the cat is caught and taken to a shelter or vet it will test positive. I don't think this would be a concern for an indoor only cat. Not all vets give the vaccine, either. But this is an option to consider.

 

[savethekitty]

If you ever do take Crusty inside with your other cat, there is a vaccine available to protect your other cat from HIV. It's only 80% effective, so there is still some risk involved. The main down side is that once a cat is vaccinated, they will always test positive for FIV even if they don't have it. This is mostly a concern for owners of cats who are outdoors because if the cat is caught and taken to a shelter or vet it will test positive. I don't think this would be a concern for an indoor only cat. Not all vets give the vaccine, either. But this is an option to consider.

Thanks for pointing this out. I read that the vaccine is for 2 strains of the virus. I would have to test Crusty again and see if his strain of the virus is the one the vaccine has and then it could be a viable option? Otherwise, it would be pointless to vaccinate him. right?

 

[savethekitty]

UPDATE:

Crusty's swollen lip is back. 

This is the second time he has this upper lip inflammation, but now at least I think I know what it is. 

I was able to pet him to a position that allowed me to look at his lip and saw what looked like a canker sore. So I looked it up as canker sore on cats and from there it lead me to Eosinophilic Granuloma or Ulcer. 

The pictures I saw online match what he has on his upper lip and also the fact that it seems that this ulcers show up on cats with high sensitivity to flea or mosquito bites. 

Since Crusty has a flea allergy diagnosed by vet's 2nd opinion, it makes sense he has this Eosinophilic Ulcer. 

I have him again on Cephalexin 250mg and this time he is on Revolution for the fleas. So I hope he gets better just as quickly this time around. 

It seems that he will have a hard life living as an outside cat even with the care I give him, just because it is impossible to prevent fleas or mosquitoes from biting him. I was reading that just one bite could cause him severe symptoms depending on how sensitive he is and Revolution is not a repellent. 

Is there a repellent for mosquitoes and fleas that could prevent the opportunistic bite here and there?

 

[catwoman707]

I wish there was a repellent!

Actually, as long as Crusty continues to get dosed with revolution monthly, I think he will not have the reaction he has been, while technically it can take just a bite or two from fleas to cause his system to over-react, which is what this sensitivity actually is, an over-response from his immune system.

But this is very, very rare, a response like he gets on his lip is from having more than a couple bites, and even though he has been treated now, the sore popped out after treatment, this delayed reaction is because it takes the body time to show on the outside that his system is reacting to the bites.

He had plenty of fleas before treating right?.

I think you will see that he will not show this over-reaction again if he is regularly treated.