Supplementing with Lysine NOT recommended for Herpes Kitties

[marye]

This is an interesting article but there are definitely some holes. Looks like these studies were preformed on cats in shelter settings (check out the section that talks about clinical studies).

I am not veterinarian, but the herpes virus in cats tends to present in times of stress. If these animals were at a constant level of high stress (as many shelter cats are) this may be a reason why the lysine was not effective. It would be interesting to do a study with cats in their homes....a non stressful environment. I have witnessed cats who make a big turn around after a few weeks of lysine and if it is helping keep it going...if not continue to work with your vet to make sure you are making the cat as comfortable as you can.

These comments are not meant to be in anyway negative to the shelters! We all know cats are fragile creatures and some do not do well in a shelter or confined environment. A big thank you to any shelter staff and foster mom's and dads!

 

[stephenq]

This is an interesting article but there are definitely some holes. Looks like these studies were preformed on cats in shelter settings (check out the section that talks about clinical studies).

I am not veterinarian, but the herpes virus in cats tends to present in times of stress. If these animals were at a constant level of high stress (as many shelter cats are) this may be a reason why the lysine was not effective. It would be interesting to do a study with cats in their homes....a non stressful environment. I have witnessed cats who make a big turn around after a few weeks of lysine and if it is helping keep it going...if not continue to work with your vet to make sure you are making the cat as comfortable as you can.

These comments are not meant to be in anyway negative to the shelters! We all know cats are fragile creatures and some do not do well in a shelter or confined environment. A big thank you to any shelter staff and foster mom's and dads!

Interesting POV!

 

[donutte]

These comments are not meant to be in anyway negative to the shelters! We all know cats are fragile creatures and some do not do well in a shelter or confined environment. A big thank you to any shelter staff and foster mom's and dads!

Indeed, the newest member of the family (Penelopy) was suffering from a recurring cold while at the shelter. That is the main reason they let me adopt her after she finished her last course of antibiotics and got the all clear, before she had a chance to get sick again. She isn't even spayed yet and still needs two of her shots (latter of which I'm going to get done next week when she needs her distemper booster). This was a case where they felt it would be better for her to get out of the shelter even if it was against normal protocol (they can do that at their discretion, it's just not the norm). 

So, I completely understand what you are saying. And you definitely do have an interesting take on it. I think this study is a great stepping stone, but definitely more research needs to be done. 

 

[lonelocust]

This is an interesting article but there are definitely some holes. Looks like these studies were preformed on cats in shelter settings (check out the section that talks about clinical studies).

I am not veterinarian, but the herpes virus in cats tends to present in times of stress. If these animals were at a constant level of high stress (as many shelter cats are) this may be a reason why the lysine was not effective. It would be interesting to do a study with cats in their homes....a non stressful environment. I have witnessed cats who make a big turn around after a few weeks of lysine and if it is helping keep it going...if not continue to work with your vet to make sure you are making the cat as comfortable as you can.

These comments are not meant to be in anyway negative to the shelters! We all know cats are fragile creatures and some do not do well in a shelter or confined environment. A big thank you to any shelter staff and foster mom's and dads!

That seems rather like you're agreeing with the results of the meta-analysis. If cats being stressed causes outbreaks, and the outbreaks will be just as likely to happen if they are stressed with or without lysine, then the lysine doesn't help, but removing stress does help. 

As to the people asking how this could possibly be true when they have personally observed it helping their personal pets, I would point to the fact that up to 70% of pet owners and even 50% of vets will report improvement in animals even when the animals are receiving a placebo. Whether or not the pet can experience a true placebo effect, people can be prone to thinking there is an improvement if they expect an improvement. Considering individual outbreaks of conjunctivitis that doesn't damage the cornea will go away on its own, your cat has a very high chance of getting better from any individual outbreak. If you're not observing many cats controlled for other things - particularly stress - with the people reporting on whether or not they're improving unaware of whether the cats are receiving treatment or not, there are many conflating factors. 

Doing a large placebo-controlled study with home cats with histories of outbreaks, based on the perceptions of the cats' caretakers, could still be interesting, but the point of the meta-study is that at this time there is no evidence that it works. 

 

[samus]

I have an immunologist friend that told me about an interesting theory about herpes (in cats and humans). The theory goes, most of the time, otherwise healthy cats or people with herpes have no symptoms. The symptoms it does cause are really mild, just kind of locally irritating rather than systemic (so no fever, etc). This indicates a really well co-evolved symbiosis. (A less co-evolved symbiosis would be a virus that kills the host relatively quickly, for example how ebola when it jumps to humans is pretty deadly.)

Once they get stressed, their immune system drops. This allows the herpes virus to get active again, but since the cat is already infected (the virus is already there and ready), this happens before the cat has a chance to catch another disease (cold, flu, whatever) and the herpes flare up kicks the immune system into alert mode. Then since the immune system's already active and elevated from fighting the herpes, any other potential bug that tries to get in (during what without the herpes would be a low immune system time) is also fought off, before it has a chance to take hold. So basically, maybe herpes is a) a warning sign of a lowered immune system and b) protective against further infections.

But not having herpes or a cat with herpes myself, I have no anecdotal evidence to confirm/deny the theory.

 

[Anne]

 
I have an immunologist friend that told me about an interesting theory about herpes (in cats and humans). The theory goes, most of the time, otherwise healthy cats or people with herpes have no symptoms. The symptoms it does cause are really mild, just kind of locally irritating rather than systemic (so no fever, etc). This indicates a really well co-evolved symbiosis. (A less co-evolved symbiosis would be a virus that kills the host relatively quickly, for example how ebola when it jumps to humans is pretty deadly.)

Once they get stressed, their immune system drops. This allows the herpes virus to get active again, but since the cat is already infected (the virus is already there and ready), this happens before the cat has a chance to catch another disease (cold, flu, whatever) and the herpes flare up kicks the immune system into alert mode. Then since the immune system's already active and elevated from fighting the herpes, any other potential bug that tries to get in (during what without the herpes would be a low immune system time) is also fought off, before it has a chance to take hold. So basically, maybe herpes is a) a warning sign of a lowered immune system and b) protective against further infections.

But not having herpes or a cat with herpes myself, I have no anecdotal evidence to confirm/deny the theory.

Interesting theory! Shouldn't be too difficult to prove though, by comparing people with herpes to people without herpes and seeing who gets sick more with other diseases? I wonder if such a study will take place at some point.

 

[stephenq]

 
That seems rather like you're agreeing with the results of the meta-analysis. If cats being stressed causes outbreaks, and the outbreaks will be just as likely to happen if they are stressed with or without lysine, then the lysine doesn't help, but removing stress does help. 

As to the people asking how this could possibly be true when they have personally observed it helping their personal pets, I would point to the fact that up to 70% of pet owners and even 50% of vets will report improvement in animals even when the animals are receiving a placebo. Whether or not the pet can experience a true placebo effect, people can be prone to thinking there is an improvement if they expect an improvement. Considering individual outbreaks of conjunctivitis that doesn't damage the cornea will go away on its own, your cat has a very high chance of getting better from any individual outbreak. If you're not observing many cats controlled for other things - particularly stress - with the people reporting on whether or not they're improving unaware of whether the cats are receiving treatment or not, there are many conflating factors. 

Doing a large placebo-controlled study with home cats with histories of outbreaks, based on the perceptions of the cats' caretakers, could still be interesting, but the point of the meta-study is that at this time there is no evidence that it works. 

One of the purposes of double blind studies is to prevent exactly what you state, the observer (like the doctor) believing that the patient getting the placebo is getting better even when they aren't.

 

[catmomma7]

Mine too.  I was so happy because I had a path for my kitties.  Now I am not so sure.

 

[mrskm]

Thank you so much for sharing this! Great information. 

 

[lisamarie12]

There's going to be a difference of opinion, even among vets, on this study. I just returned from spending one hour with Mikey's new vet (5 year old kitty). Mikey is FHV and was diagnosed as having an eosinophilic granuloma on his neck.

He asked if I was using lysine for Mikey's eyes, which have greatly improved since making a diet change the last two years, but he occasionally get the black discharge / goopy eyes.

I told him I stopped using lysine after reading this study to which he responded that he is not putting a lot of credibility in this study for various reasons. He said he has years of experience working with "only cats", that he's had any number of FHV cats and recommended lysine over the years and that lysine " works for cats as it does for humans with herpes".

Anyway. I learned a lot today from this vet, between Molly's vet (same vet practice) and Mikey's new vet - who is very much into nutrition, supports raw, loves Weruva and Tiki Cat, Instinct, no dry - he does every thing possible not to recommend the prescription diets, I feel like I hit the jackpot.

He gave Mikey a steroid and antibiotic, although a temporary fix, he gave us any number of alternatives how to proceed.

Anyway, just thought I would share my experience. I personally noticed a difference in the improvement of Mikey's eyes with lysine.

 

[foxxycat]

Not sure how I feel about this study. I will need to take the time to read it all but I will say that my elderly cat gets eye goops if I dont give lysine but I also only give a pinch otherwise she wont eat the food..so now I have another cat who just got ulcers in her eyes and my vet recommend upping the lysine. I did, and cat wont eat it. so I am going to try to mix it into babyfood and swipe it on the roof of her mouth. I think its helped. I always have done a pinch here and there when I remember but never the full dose..will see my vet next week and I will ask her what she thinks about this...

 

[red top rescue]

However, LACTOFERRIN was proven active against the herpes simplex virus especially when combined with acyclovir and that has not changed.

J.H. Andersen, H. Jenssen, T.J. Gutteberg

Lactoferrin and lactoferricin inhibit Herpes simplex 1 and 2 infection and exhibit synergy when combined with acyclovir

1. 
   Antivir. Res., 58 (2003), pp. 209–215
   •  

   • Abstract

     
     Lactoferrin (LF) is a multifunctional glycoprotein, which plays an important role in immune regulation and defense mechanisms against bacteria, fungi, and viruses. Upon peptic digestion of LF, a peptide called lactoferricin (Lfcin) is generated. Lfcin corresponds to the N-terminal part of the protein. In this study we investigated the antiviral activity of bovine and human Lfcin against Herpes simplex virus (HSV)-1 and HSV-2. The 50% effective concentrations (EC50) for LF and Lfcin against several clinical isolates of HSV-1 and HSV-2, including acyclovir (ACV)-resistant strains, were determined. We further evaluated the effect of the combination of either LF or Lfcin with ACV against HSV-1 and HSV-2. Synergy was observed between both LF or Lfcin in combination with ACV against the HSV laboratory strains. The 50% effective concentration (EC50) for ACV and LF or Lfcin, when combined with ACV, could be reduced by two- to sevenfold compared to the EC50 when the drugs were used alone.

 

[stephanietx]

I tried lactoferrin with my herpes girl for 3 months.  It didn't help her one bit.  Went back to the lysine and she was better.  I really think it depends on the cat. 

 

[red top rescue]

Interesting, in light of the writers of the article who tell us it can't work.  Vets around here dont buy the article that says it doesnt work because they have seen the lysine work, even if nobody understands why now (since it doesnt reduce arginine in cats like it des in people.)  It works find on MY fever blisters, but I'm not a cat.  I also can take the acyclovir when it gets worse, i.e. when lysine isn't quite enough, but thats rare.  Stress definitely brings it on.