Spiteful Kitten?

[jayme argall]

My boyfriend and I rescued a little kitten off the streets of Costa Rica about a month ago. He was is really bad condition when we found him, but now he is a healthy boy. However, he is far crazier than any other kitten that I've ever had. He gets a really evil look in his eyes sometimes and constantly attacks us with his sharp little teeth and claws. He's destroyed many things in our house already and it's only been a month. The worst part of all is that he loves to poop on the tile floor and dance in it. He jumps in it and smears it all over until there is poop ALL over the bathroom. Literally poop everywhere. He does it everyday and needs to be bathed everyday. It's getting exhausting and we are thinking about giving him away. We can't take it anymore. What is wrong with him????? Help please!!

 

[otto]

Kittens aren't spiteful. His behavior with biting and scratching is normal for a kitten who was not raised with his mother and siblings. You will need a lot of patience, and you can teach him that biting and scratching are not appropriate behavior. We can help you with that.

To start with, you will need to play with him a LOT, and use toys, always, never use your hands or feet to play with him, always have something in your hand. I can offer more details on how to train him if you want.

For the pooping on the floor:

First, he probably has worms. Take him to the vet and your vet will evaluate his health and prescribe a deworming medicine.

Second, how many litter boxes do you have? Some cats prefer to have two, one for pee and one for poop. Be sure to keep both boxes very clean.

Welcome to the forum, congratulations on your new family member, and hurray for you for rescuing the homeless baby.

 

[sugarcatmom]

How old is he? Sounds mostly like normal hyper kitten behaviour to me, except that he needs a more acceptable outlet for all that pent up energy. Do you play with him regularly with wand or fishing-rod style toys, or throw him fake mice for him to chase? Some kind of "cat gym" (aka cat condo or cat tree, with various interactive elements) would also help him expend some of his "crazies". 

As for poopin on the tile, how many litter boxes do you have and where are they located? How often are they scooped, and what type of litter do you use? He may need more than one box, as many cats prefer to pee and poop in different boxes. They should also be scooped out at least daily, if not more often. 

What does your kitten eat? It sounds like he has soft stool if he's smearing it everywhere and needs a bath everyday. Healthy cat poops should be quite firm, without being overly hard and dry. Perhaps he has some digestive issues that are contributing to his extra-curricular litter box activities. 

 

[Willowy]

He probably was separated from his mother and littermates too young. When that happens, they don't learn their proper cat lessons, including how not to bite or scratch too hard. So you'll need to teach him. When he bites or scratches too hard, make a loud high-pitch noise (the kind of noise a kitten would make if his brother bit him too hard) and stop playing with him. If he keeps jumping on you, put him in "time-out" in a bathroom or other small, safe area. Just for a couple of minutes. But you have to do this EVERY TIME he bites too hard, or at all (you have to decide if you'll allow soft bites or no biting at all. But be consistent!).

But he does need to play rough. So get one of those big stuffed toys (or stuff a big tube sock) to make a kicking/biting toy for him to wrestle with. Whenever he wants to wrestle, give him that so he won't get too excited and attack you. Also get/make a fishing pole type toy, with feathers as "bait". He's just a young boy and needs lots of exercise! If you wear him out, he'll be too tired to attack you.

As for the poop, he probably didn't learn proper potty manners, either. Is his poop runny? If so, you'll need to talk to the vet. He should have already been de-wormed and gotten at least one shot by now. If not, he definitely needs a full round of de-worming. Once his poop is firm, it should be less messy. What kind of litter do you have? How deep is it? What kind of litterbox?

 

[jayme argall]

He is 4 months old. We feed him Purina kitten chow and he eats about 1 1/2 cups of that a day. We keep the litter box clean. He poops and pees in it, but every once in a while he just decides to do it somewhere else. It doesn't matter is we just cleaned the box or if it is a little dirty. We use a generic brand of litter because that's all that's available around here. (We are in Costa Rica) We only have one litter box, but our apartment is pretty small. If we have another litter box we will be surrounded by kitty litter. 

I work from home, so I'm CONSTANTLY playing with him. We have this soft little monkey that we try to get him to play with, but he seems to only focus on our hands. We have toys for him all over the house.

Someone told us to put food in the place where he likes to poo, but he still poops there anyway. I've never seen a cat behave like this before.

Also, he had giardia when we got him, but we gave him medicine for 3 days and the vet said that would cure him. His poop does seem a little soft though. You're right..he shouldn't be able to smear it like that. We do have to give him a bath everyday and someone told me that could cause anxiety that causes him to smear his poop around to act out. But we HAVE to give him a bath. 

Does having worms cause a cat to play in his own poop? I guess I was under the impression that it was behavioral. Should I be taking him to the vet?

 

[jayme argall]

Actually, we just caught him dancing around in his own poo. It's SO horrible. You can't even imagine. We feel desperate!!! My boyfriend is gaging all over the place.

 

[Willowy]

I guess I don't know what you mean by "dancing" in it. I've seen puppies do it (oh, all the time! Puppies are fun!), but kittens don't move quite the same way as puppies. Is he playing with it? Trying to bat it around? Sort of "skating" in it? It's hard for me to imagine a cat doing the stiff-legged prancing move that dogs do, that I would consider dancing.

Does it look like he's doing it on purpose or like he can't help it?

 

[cinderflower]

Actually, we just caught him dancing around in his own poo. It's SO horrible. You can't even imagine. We feel desperate!!! My boyfriend is gaging all over the place.

omg lol.  i know it's horrible for you, but that makes me laugh because it reminds me of when i stayed at my sister's and when she had a baby.  robert was about 9 months old and he would wake up at 6AM, dig in his diaper and smear it all over the walls.  when you went into his room, you would be greeted by a smiling poo-besotted baby who didn't have a clue it was disgusting.

can you get any other kind of food?  any kind of canned would be better than dry.  with giardia and worms, you're going to have to follow up on that because a lot of times they need it more than once.

also, if you could get pine wood pellets for litter, you could have more than one box and it's even a lot cheaper.  i don't know if you can get it there, but they're $4.50 for 40 lbs. one bag lasts about six weeks for me and i have three cats.  but if you can get him on canned the poo should firm up and it also won't smell horrible.  he isn't doing it on purpose, he was just under or improperly socialized.

what everyone else said about not playing with your hands is right.  or even just say "OW" really loud and stop playing with him when he does it.  he'll get the clue.  i've had two psycho kittens lol.  they grew up.  never had the poo problem though--one peed in my bed for about two years before i figured out what he wanted so i know how you feel: DESPERATE and like crying and screaming.

is he just getting it on him and then slipping and sliding around in it?  like trying to get it off and just making it worse/

 

[carolina]

So sorry! I reaaaally need to go to bed lol, but something caught my attention.... Giardia is not killed in 3 days At least I never heard of this before...
The usual treatment is 10 days of metronidazole.... Then you still have a chance to not have killed it, so you have to test it again. I am sorry to say, but I suspect your kitty still has giardia..... Good luck!

 

[catnamedpanda]

So sorry! I reaaaally need to go to bed lol, but something caught my attention.... Giardia is not killed in 3 days

At least I never heard of this before...
The usual treatment is 10 days of metronidazole.... Then you still have a chance to not have killed it, so you have to test it again. I am sorry to say, but I suspect your kitty still has giardia..... Good luck!

I am usually given Panacure and that too is at least a 10 day course.

 

[jayme argall]

Really? Well, I'll get him back to the vet then to get him re-tested for giardia. The vets here are unfortunately very untrustworthy and expensive, so it's hard to know if they are telling the truth or not. They just want money. I found out mine lied to me about the price of an appointment to charge me more. Thank you for letting me know that. 

He is definitely doing it on purpose. It's not an accident. He stands up on his hind legs and then smashes his front paws into the poo over and over again. What I'm worried about is that maybe his poop is soft from the giardia, but would giardia cause that type of behavior? I feel like he is going to do this whether he has giardia or not.

I'm going to try out a new vet today and I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you for your advice! 

 

[detmut]

Really? Well, I'll get him back to the vet then to get him re-tested for giardia. The vets here are unfortunately very untrustworthy and expensive, so it's hard to know if they are telling the truth or not. They just want money. I found out mine lied to me about the price of an appointment to charge me more. Thank you for letting me know that. 

He is definitely doing it on purpose. It's not an accident. He stands up on his hind legs and then smashes his front paws into the poo over and over again. What I'm worried about is that maybe his poop is soft from the giardia, but would giardia cause that type of behavior? I feel like he is going to do this whether he has giardia or not.

I'm going to try out a new vet today and I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you for your advice! 

for Giardia in Cats, Flagyl (metronidazole) 5-11 mg/lb orally 1-2 times a day for 5-10 days

 

[p3 and the king]

You say you can't trust the vets in your area... It is so important if you are going to have a pet that you trust their vet.  I would suggest research and asking people who they use and if their vet is trustworthy and fair.  Really ask questions and don't be shy.  Pet people are almost always willing to help another.  And if you call these people and ask how much the see fee is ask for their name and write it down and tell them if they wouldn't mind, if their is a problem, you'll give their name.  Usually if they say no, hang up.  A reputable vet office will be straight with you.  However, The fees can include medication and other works too.  The see fee is just that, it gets you in and checked out.  Xrays and other tests and medication will be more.  Before this is done ask.  Just tell them you're on a budget and you need to know how much it's going to costs for the extras. So you need to be aware of that.  Many vets have their own pharmacy so they go ahead and give you the meds right then and there at checkout.  Yes giardia needs to be treated for at least 10 days.  So he probably still has it. 

As for his rambunctious behavior, most of it seems normal for a kitten.  He was on the streets so he was probably semi feral.  They are usually more "wild" than house raised kittens.  Just don't make your hands prey objects... Don't dangle them with toys you're holding.  Hands and feet are very appealing to kittens.... Heck, my King Arthur is going to be 2 in a couple of weeks and I still have to watch him with my feet!!  Try interactive toys that keep your hands at a safe distance.  Like Da Bird.  Or laser toys.  If he gets too rough just say a firm "NO" put him down or get up yourself and walk away.  He'll get the hint eventually.  Kitties are a lot easier to train than dogs.  It's people who make it hard. 

Kittens can be destructive.  It's just how they are.  Like babies, they learn.  Just try not to get too upset.  A firm "NO" when you catch him doing something you don't want him to do is all it takes.  But only when you catch him in the act.  If you get upset later, he won't know what it's for and he will associate your behavior with that moment and what's going on.  My King Arthur loves to knock things (my "pretties") off of the bookshelf still to this day.  He knows its a no no but he knocks off the things he knows won't break.  I have learned over the years to keep things that are fragile out of their reach.  You will too.  Remember he is just a baby still.  He is not used to be indoors yet.  He doesn't know.  He'll eventually learn.  It's how you handle it that is most crucial.  Cats very much take in our behavior and body language.

As for his playing with poo... It's probably out of boredom.  Something about it feels good to him.  Is he locked up in the room at the times he does this?  Does he not use the litterbox at all?  You should try different types of litter.  Many have success with cat attract litter.  Or try potting soil since he was outside, the litter might not feel right or smell right to him... So that can help... Mix a little cat attract in the potting soil and see what that does.

 

[p3 and the king]

Also, I forgot to mention if you only have 1 litter box, maybe get 2.  A lot of cats are picky and they like to pee in one and poo in another.... It could help a lot, too.

 

[whollycat]

Or try potting soil since he was outside, the litter might not feel right or smell right to him... So that can help... Mix a little cat attract in the potting soil and see what that does.

I wouldn't use potting soil unless it is free of fertilizers and pesticides (most are not), but I feel you are going to end up with a big mess if you do use potting soil. If you don't have many options for kitty litter in Costa Rica, you can also purchase it online. Some don't mind scented, others will not use a litter that is scented--you could try different ones to see which he prefers, including different textures. Cat Attract, which can be sprinkled in/on the litter is a great idea.

If adding another litter box is not an option, perhaps a jumbo-sized one would work.

It could be his "playing" with his poo is a natural behavior because he still has Giardia, but hasn't learned by instinct that burying it, instead of spreading it about, is what he should do. In the wild kitties that are sick bury their pee and poo so other animals don't "recognize" them and try to attack and kill them. Kind of "survival of the fittest" response when they are sick.

Your little guy sounds like such a cutie!

 

[p3 and the king]

I wouldn't use potting soil unless it is free of fertilizers and pesticides (most are not), but I feel you are going to end up with a big mess if you do use potting soil. If you don't have many options for kitty litter in Costa Rica, you can also purchase it online. Some don't mind scented, others will not use a litter that is scented--you could try different ones to see which he prefers, including different textures. Cat Attract, which can be sprinkled in/on the litter is a great idea.

If adding another litter box is not an option, perhaps a jumbo-sized one would work.

It could be his "playing" with his poo is a natural behavior because he still has Giardia, but hasn't learned by instinct that burying it, instead of spreading it about, is what he should do. In the wild kitties that are sick bury their pee and poo so other animals don't "recognize" them and try to attack and kill them. Kind of "survival of the fittest" response when they are sick.

Your little guy sounds like such a cutie!

It is not a long term solution and it's no more messy than litter... But it does help with ferals and semi ferals that are not used to being indoors and haven't been "exposed" to a litterbox before and it's cleaner and safter than dirt.  I've known many people that have done this and their cats haven't gotten sick.  They only use it a couple of days, just long enough for things to "click" with the cat.  Geesh.  I am sure the OP knows that I meant that.

And a jumbo sized one still isn't a great idea because the cat will still see one box and still use it for that one purpose and not both.  It's better to get 2. 

 

[jayme argall]

Well, we took Gordo to a different veterinarian today. We decided to go the the University veterinarian because some Costa Rican locals told us they are the only ones that won't lie to me or do a half *** job. The university student who took care of Gordo was being supervised by her professor and she was excellent! She was so caring and loving with my kitty, not like the horrible other veterinarian that would hide in his office every time he saw me walk into the building. 

So here is what we learned...the veterinarian definitely ripped us off with the giardia medicine. Also, the vet had told us that Gordo didn't have worms, but just this giardia parasite. Well, he was wrong. Poor little Gordo has a tummy full of fully developed adult worms PLUS the giardia that never got taken out of his system due the misguidance from the vet. The vet said that kitten will poop in strange places because they can't make it in time to the litter box and playing in their poop could be caused by two different things: the kitty is embarrassed that he couldn't make it to his box so he tries to hide it OR he is acting out to get our attention that he is not feeling well. The vet is very confident that this behavior will stop once we get rid of his worms. 

The vet gave him medicine for the worms and gave us metronidazol to give him for 10 days. We have another appointment in 15 days to continue with his worm medication. 

We told the university veterinarian/professor about our situation and he told us how to complete an official complaint against this vet through the Association of Veterinary Medicine. He said that reprimand is hard to come by in Costa Rica, but it's worth a try. That's what we will be doing tonight.

 

[carolina]

Oh, that poor baby and poor momma! And Goodness Gracious, what a bad vet you got before :wife: - glad he is on your and your kitty's past!
Good for you for taking him back to another one that he gets all better in no time!

 

[otto]

So happy to see your update on Gordo! And now you have a decent place to take your kitten to for his health needs all his long long life!

Soon he will feel better and you can all get down to the business of learning about one another, bonding and having fun.

Gordo :heart3:

 

[wubbiebear]

Aww, poor baby. I'm glad you found a vet that knows what she's doing. Give him some love for me.