Spaying Feral Cat

[catajade]

I have the feral cat with a left clipped ear who I thought was spayed. After feeding her for 2 weeks she moved her four kittens to my yard. A rescue group said they would help me with vetting them and home placement if I foster the kittens and spay the mother. I'm wondering if a vet can tell if she's already been spayed and was just fostering these kittens(as one of you suggested) and whether I should wait until the kittens are completely weaned to spay her. Right now her nipples look really swollen. I can't determine the kittens exact age either. They won't let me anywhere near them.. They are tumbling with each other and climbing up a garden screen that I have in front of my mesh screen to the sun room. I'm guessing 5 or 6 weeks

The volunteer I spoke with at the spay and neuter clinic told me if the mother had kittens she wasn't already spayed and the clipped ear could be from something else. The ear looks surgical in my opinion though. She also said to wait until the kittens are completely weaned; however I went to their website and found conflicting information from what the volunteer said about the spaying of a nursing mother. Does anyone know anything about what to do about spaying her. The rescue group won't help me until I get the mom spayed. I don't want them to cut on her only to find she's already infertile. Can a vet tell? Can a nursing mom be spayed? How to trap them all. I'm just going bonkers trying to figure out what to do lol  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ondine]

A vet could usually tell from the scar on her belly.  She may have undergone spay surgery that for some reason did not take.  Only a vet could tell you that.  Will the rescue group refer you to their vet?  If so, get mom to the vet first.  Once her situation is determined, you can figure out your next step.

Do you already have them confined on the porch?  That's a start.  If they aren't, is there a room in your home you can put them all in? It will be their "safe" room and the place where you can begin to socialize.  They are actually at the right age to begin.  Spend some time with them every day.  Use wand toys or string toys to lure the kittens into play.

Thank you for helping her.  Her ear may be an injury, so it sounds like she really needed you!

 

[catajade]

Thanks so very much for all the great advice!  I hope the vet can tell. The rescue group wants me to bring them to their building where they will weigh and deworm them. They said that depending on their age, they will schedule their first vet visit. They want me to take care of the mother.  The spay and neuter clinic is open part time for spay surgeries and vaccines.  I can tell by looking at her she has bad ear mites. Should I wait a few weeks to get mom spayed? I"m going to have to trap her for all this, and I will probably only get one chance for that.

I don't have the kittens inside yet. I don't know how to catch them , I have a three level deck with lots of greenery, weeds and vines etc. There are lots of places for them to hide.  They run away when I open the door. They go inside my sun room in the mornings through a crack in the door, but then again they run out as soon as I get close. I was thinking maybe I could install a cat door with a two way lock system. I'm not sure how well it works. I've read cats can bust through it.

I absolutely love the wand toys esp the skineez squirrel, duck, and bunny on a stick. One of the kittens found my cats wand toy in the sun room and dragged it under to the deck lol,  I would love to play chase the duck indoors with them. We are going today to look at an a/c for our sun room. That would make a perfect safe room. It's very cat friendly,, just way too hot. I hope we can get all this to flow

Again thank you for your advice! 

 

[ondine]

You can borrow or rent a trap to catch them and mom.  I have a feeling you'll need the trap for mom.  You might also consider getting a large crate for inside the sun room, so when mom is trapped, she has a "room" of her own.  She'll need to be inside for two or three days after spaying - so her incision heals well before you let her go.  Are you planning to have her as an inside only, outside only or inside/outside cat?

You can also try to catch the kittens in a carrier or crate.  Tie a length of twine to the top of the door, then loop it through the top of the carrier, leaving the door open.  Walk away with the other end to a place where you can sit (bringing it through a window is good, then sit inside the sun room.

Put a plate of stinky wet food inside the carrier, at the back.  Take up your position in the sun room and wait for the kittens to find the food.  When they are inside, pull the twine and slowly close the door.  You may need a partner who can move quickly to secure the door.

I would trap mom first.  Without her, the kittens will be more likely to go for any food you put down for them.  You can get them used to eating in the crate or carrier for a few days before you trap them, depending on the situation with mom.

The rescue sounds like it is going to be very supportive.  Many leave you all on your own.

 

[catajade]

Oh wow that's a great plan. I will try that for sure.  I don't know if mom will adapt to being an indoor cat. I can only try. I hope she does. My cats aren't allowed outside.  In the past we let the boys go in and out, but when they started getting attacked by other animals we stopped letting them go out.  We've been to the vet on a couple occasions for puncture bites on the hiney.

I think you're right about letting the kittens get more food. Every time I mix their Purina One Healthy kitten with a can of wet food, the mom eats most of it. I give her a couple of cans of food a day as well as dry food. The poor little thing was half starved. She's maybe 5 lbs herself. She may be little, but she's tough as nails. My poodle had a dose of mama last night when we let him out to potty. He didn't realize it was her and he tried to chase her. She put a whipping on my poor dog. She was protecting those babies. My dog wouldn't hurt them, but she doesn't know that. 

Yes, I am very lucky to have this rescue. They normally only help animals get out of shelters, but since I'm going to foster  them and already have 5 indoor fixed cats they agreed to help me. They are so wonderful.  You are so wonderful too for giving me such excellent advice. THANK YOU

 

[kittychick]

I agree with @Ondine  - what a great and compassionate rescue you're working with! As someone who's worked the intake desk at several rescues, I'm sure it does you're obviously a compassionate, caring person who isn't flying in there screaming "someone take this cat and kittens NOW!" They see you want to help and are willing to do whatever you need to. 

Definitely keep coming to this forum - the emotional support and amount of amazing advice - in very quick turnaround time - is wonderful here. I'm an extremely experienced "animal person" and it's gotten me through many issues (weaning, death, litterbox, kidney, you name it) and provided real life information that's just invaluable. No one will ever make fun of you for asking "too many" or "the wrong" questions! 

It is odd that it's her left ear - could you get a picture of it for us? It's beyond extremely unlikely that she underwent a spay surgery and still had kittens. However it is possible that someone did a spay on her after she had the kittens, since cats can still nurse post-spay. Or that she was spayed after another litter was just weaned and then she "adopted" another mother's kittens (kind of like a wet nurse). Highly unlikely on that last one -but stranger things have happened. My bet is it's the first option - but I wouldn't take a chance on it. A vet will need to make the final determination. And it sounds like she's miserable with the mites/infection - - so even if they don't need to do a spay surgery, her life would be made much more pleasant even if all that happens at the vet is helping out the ears! It certainly is possible it's an injury to her ear - I've definitely seen multiple cats literally rip their ears off trying to stop the awful itching from mites and infection. I personally had a cat that we adopted from my grandparent's farm when they lost their farm to foreclosure. It was, needless to say, horrible - every animal had to be placed since the people who bought the farm basically wanted a "country show place" versus a working farm, so everything - cows, pigs, dogs, sheep, horses, and lots and lots of kitties - had to be placed somewhere. This was 35 years ago - before the spay/neuter/overpopulation issue came more to the forefront (plus this was a farm - and my grandparents, while very compassionate about animals, were definitely of the old world/farm mindset where cats just bred and bred and bred - because so many kittens didn't survive, and mice were kept in control by the ones that did). Anyway - I took home the "farm tom" (his name was KK) that had been there for years, and our vet actually advised us to put him to sleep immediately. His teeth were rotting out of his head, he was horribly anemic from fleas and tics, he was riddled with worms, his eyes were both infected, he had a heart murmur, and his ears were so horribly mite-infected that he'd not only scratched them both raw, but had developed horrible hematomas in both from shaking his head so hard that the blood vessels in his ears burst. But I took a chance and scraped together the money (and I was a newly graduated unemployed college student - so it wasn't easy - so poor I couldn't afford a leash for him, so I walked him around our neighborhood tied to the end of several shoelaces!!) for all the vet work that had to be done (starting with neutering and removing all his teeth!) - but his ears were the things that took the most work. For the first few months he kept re-opening the hematomas by scratching and shaking his head - his ears looked like prize-fighter's cauliflower ears - just awful. On more than one occasion I came  home to an apartment that looked like a scene from Law and Order - blood everywhere from him digging at them. So that long story lead to me saying that one day he actually ripped the edge of his ear off - and it ended up looking like what now would be considered an ear tip. So if she's miserable  - it is possible she actually ripped it off trying to make her ears stop making her miserable. And happy ending to KK's story - of all the cats I've had over the years (and I've had many - and fostered hundreds more) - - KK was one of the most amazing, loving, wonderful cats I've ever met. He ended up living very happily until he was over 20!!!

So back to your situations (sorry - I'm a rambler!) ---- if she isn't actually spayed, it's going to become critical soon that she is. It's a myth that cats can't get pregnant while they're nursing. She can get pregnant by around 7-8 weeks after giving birth - and it sounds like you're closing in on that fast. Make sure the clinic is aware of your concern that she's ear tipped (don't assume they'll notice it - typical spay neuter clinics are moving so quickly with surgeries that it's easy to miss things like that). They'll check as closely as they can - although even a surgical scar doesn't tell them for sure she's spayed - since a C-section scar can look similar and they won't take the chance that that's what it could be. Some clinics not only ear tip but also do a little tattoo - so they'll check for that too. But they may end up having to do surgery to check. But far better safe than sorry. If they are 5-6 weeks old (alleycatallies.org has some great visuals for aging kittens), they can definitely start to be weaned (sounds like they're already enjoying cat food!) so you can definitely very comfortably start the process of trapping her and getting her fixed. 

And it sounds like the sun porch (if it can be kept cool) is a great place to put them. Since you have other cats - even if you don't plan on keeping her or any of the babies - the ability to keep her and them separate from your guys is pretty important. Especially since you've seen she's not exactly intimidated by even the dog! And this is the perfect age to start socializing the babies - you're already seeing signs that they're already learning to be frightened by humans. Mama's teaching them well to stay safe! But 5-6 weeks is still within the pretty darn easy to socialize. This site has some great threads on socializing. I'd get a trap asap and start feeding momma in it so that you can trap her shortly!

Keep us posted - and never be afraid to ask anything! 

 

[catajade]

Thanks for sharing your story. I really enjoyed reading it. I am sad to hear about the animals.   I'm glad you saved the tomcat!  He sounds like he was an amazing cat.  Don't worry if you ramble. I ramble too.

Yes I am definitely going to get the ear mites under control when I take mommy to the clinic. One of my cats actually caught ear mites from an exam table. I could tell it wasn't clean. If they were still on revolution that wouldn't have happened, but my vet convinced me the seresto collars were the best flea protection. Anyway, last week I took Midnight in for her annual, and I brought lysol wipes with me lol 

So last night I was able to get one kitten inside the house. He stayed in a carrier last night. He's in my son's room now. I'm worried because he didn't eat his food. I let him out of the carrier this morning and he used the liter box. I'm worried about him being away from his mother and siblings. He's sacred to death too. I nearly took my hand off last night. I haven't seen the mother and other cats since this morning either. I'm worried she took off to find him. They might be under the deck though. She usually comes out every time I open the door, and she hasn't since this morning. What if the kitten isn't old enough to be away from her for long. My idea was to trap a few more kittens today in the carrier that I rigged, then take them into the sun room. She would of course follow me, then I could shut the door. I actually had two cats inside the carrier-trap today. The mom shut the door on them while they were eating. I woke my son up and asked him to hold the string. He was half asleep and dropped the string, They darted off before I could make my attempt to capture them. It would have been perfect. We also have the a/c installed in the sun room, so it's comfortable.

What should I do about the kitten. I almost want to let him back out because he's crying. If he's not old enough to be separated, I don't want to do the wrong thing. I'm getting a better trap tonight from the rescue. I was supposed to get it yesterday, but apparently someone else borrowed it.   She called me and said the trap would be returned today. I am really happy they are going to help me. I'd feel so much better if they were all safely tucked away indoors.

I appreciate all of your advice.

 

[ondine]

Can you get a crate for him?  Big enough for a litter box and carrier or place for a bed.  He needs some safe space.  You can cover the crate to help keep him calm.

If this is going to be part of your life, buying supplies now is a good idea.  The other kittens can also be placed in the crate - I would get a 48" one, to have plenty of room.  I saw one at Ross the other day for less than$50 and you can get them on Amazon for about that, too.

At five weeks, he is a little young to be away from mom but if he's eating slid food, you will be able to socialize him easily.  Mix the wet food with with kitten milk or water to make a slurry so it will be easier for him to eat.  Messy but cleaning him with a warm washcloth will help with socializing.  Spend time in the room with him, talking softly and moving slowly.

If you can't do this now, is the rescue able to take him?  He's actually at a good age to be socialized, even though he's a little young.  You have a lot of work ahead of you, so if the rescue can take him, it would relieve some of your burden.

Your indoor cats are another good reason to give mom and the kits the sun porch for their very own.  Everyone will have privacy and there won't be territorial issues.

I had a thought about mom - I once volunteered at a very busy spay/neuter clinic and one time, a cat got through without the surgery, although she was eartipped.  But through a series of very unfortunate events, she did not get spayed.  (I think she had an infection and the vet wanted to wait).  But the info that she didn't get spayed did not get to her owner, who let her back out.

When she showed up pregnant, there was much checking of records until they finally figured things out.  Her kittens were taken in by staff of the clinic, who found homes for them all.  And mom was definitely spayed then.  But it was not a nice experience for all concerned.

In any case, hopefully the rescue will be able to determine if she is, indeed, spayed and help figure things out with you.

 

[catajade]

Yes thank you I will pick up a crate tonight. The rescue has a bunch of them in storage. Good idea! I saw a bunch of other supplies too. I'll make a list.

That's really interesting about the spay clinic. I could see how that might happen. Her ear looks surgically clipped.

Ok here's what's bothering me. I have one kitten in custody, now the mom cat is nowhere to be found. She always comes out to talk to me every time I open the door. I know she's probably looking for her kitten. Do you think she will ever come back?I haven't seen her or the others since this morning, This baby hasn't eaten either. I sent my sister out for a bottle. What if she doesn't come back. What if she doesn't trust me anymore. I don't think she even knows I cat napped him. She wasn't in sight when I closed the door to the sun room. Normally the kittens all scatter when I open the door, but this one didn't so I just closed the door and got him into a carrier. The kitten slept in my sons room last night, but I moved him back to the sun room. I have the window cracked just a little so she can hear him cry if and when she comes back. Do you think I messed up royally? I feel so terrible right now for all of them.I hope she comes back. 

 

[ondine]

She may very well have another person feeding her - or she moved the kittens - or - she's looking for him.  Whatever it is, you did the right thing.

At some point, she's going to need to be caught and spayed and so will the kittens.  This will be traumatic but it has to be done.  She will trust you again - I promise.

Getting a bottle is a good idea.  He may still be slightly too young for solid food and that will help him make the transition.

Also, you may want to use a little trick with him.  Get a nice fluffy towel and wrap him in it, so just his head shows.  Have him positioned on his tummy, so when he nurses, he's in the same position as if he's with mom.  Talk calmly and quietly to him.  Once he's done nursing, clean him up with a warm damp washcloth.

You may also need to stimulate him to poop and pee (if he hasn't used the box, yet.)  A warm damp washcloth will do the trick.  (It feels like mom's tongue).

Ask the rescue for any other ideas, too.  They have the experience and should be supporting you.

 

[catajade]

OK I see what you're saying. Thank you again for the wonderful advice. The good news is all the kittens use the litter box. I've been cleaning up tiny rat size pellets! I've seen the kittens enter the sun room exclusively to potty..

We tried to bottle feed him, but he wouldn't take it. He chewed on it a little, and it's been confirmed he is a him for sure. I saw a little bitty baby part down there. I named him Stanley.We did the wet wash cloth thing though

About 30 minutes ago the mother returned, I hope she didn't move the kittens because I want to trap them this evening. That's when they normally come out is mornings and evenings. I have the mom in the sun room with Stanley. She only let him nurse for a few minutes; however her nipples look really sore. Stanley ate his cat food since the return of his mother. I guess he's a lot happier now. I'm wondering if the kittens don't come out to play on the deck as usual, should I let the mother out to find them and bring them back? I want to get them all in one location, the mama spayed, and all of them vetted.Thanks again.

 

[ondine]

I'd play it by ear.  If mom brings them and you can get them all confined on the porch, do so.

I would concentrate on getting the kittens corralled first.  You can trap mom in the yard but without her, the kittens wouldn't be safe.

 

[catajade]

That's how I feel too. They won't be safe without her. I'm trying to get her to go back outside, but she won't and I don't want to let baby kitten out. Mom cat actually ran inside my house this evening, and I had a time getting her out. I don't know whether or not she has FIV, so I don't want her anywhere near my cats. OMG she swiped at my dog. We were trying to install a locking cat door, so I put the kitten in the carrier so he wouldn't get loose. I think she thought I brought him inside and was trying to find him. I had to take kitten out of carrier to show her I had him before she would vacate the premises. Going back to the cat door. The area we wanted to put it in is going to need serious modification, so until my husband gets extra time that's not going to happen. I hope to at least catch one more kitten this evening so that Stanley will have someone with him tonight. He is sad without his mother, but a sibling would help. He slept on my chest earlier. I'm not sure I can put him up for adoption. He was the first kitten to come inside. He didn't leave last night when his siblings and mother did. That's how I caught him.

 

[catajade]

Yay I caught another one! WOOOT!

 

[catajade]

I used the string and carrier technique so thanks for the tip!

 

[ondine]

Cool beans!  Glad Stanley will have company now.

How may kittens are there altogether?  I forgot if you mentioned it already...

 

[catajade]

There are 4 kittens. I now have three in custody. The shyest is out alone right now.  My son almost got number 4 around 5pm.  Apparently he hasn't mastered the trick and kitty got away. I went by a tractor supply store and got a real trap , I baited it with a different food. I think kitty might associate the other food with a trick, She didn't eat any of her kibble today or drink her formula. I know she's probably having separation anxiety and hunger. I can't get the mother cat out. Two of the kitties were out all night alone last night. I trapped one of them around 3 am. I had to work a 12 hour shift today. so I wasn't able to be here to work on this. When I got home from work, Mama kitty was on top of my china cabinet, which is really tall. I couldn't get her down, She is very feral in the aspect of hissing, biting, growling, She reminds me of the cat Church from the Pet Cemetery movie. Oddly enough the kitten I'm trying to trap and bring in looks like the cat Church. I'm praying I can get this little baby inside to safety. My husband is trying to scare away the raccoons right now, I like raccoons, but not when I have a kitten at stake.

 

[ondine]

Mom sounds determined, in any case.  You've got your hands full.

One thing I like about cat rescue is that you are never bored.

Fingers crossed, vibes being sent, prayers being said that Number Four is in the house tonight!

 

[catajade]

Thanks for all of your support. I really mean that. Your prayers have been heard. Today the cat family is all together. Baby didn't fall for the trap. She meowed all night at the window to her mom and siblings and ignored the trap entirely,. Finally, today my husband comes home early from work and he starts to work on a locking car door, but he didn't have a circular saw. He worked 4 hrs no luck. He must have a gift because he told Mama cat 3 times to go out and check on her kitten. She finally listened and reunited with her. She did this leaving the other babies in our care. I got home from work and the trap I set for baby had mama in it. She was livid. I let her out and fed her and baby kitten.  I took her three kittens and placed them into a large carrier. I got bit in the process by the calico lol. I then placed kitten formula in their carrier thinking it might be a few hours before any progress was made. I cracked the sun room door open. Mama came in with kitten number 4. My son snuck around the side of the house in bare feet.. He then managed to close the door. We then thanked the higher powers that be and let the kittens out of the carrier. They are all happy and reunited. The rescue couldn't provide a trap fast enough, someone else had it, so  I purchased one. It turns out I didn't even need it. They are going to let me use a large kennel. I hope to get mama cat spayed Monday, and she will need some time away from them trying to bite her teat. I can attest these kittens have some strong teeth. I was bleeding profusely when baby girl calico got me. She just saw  me as a massive  giant. I can't say I blame her, and I admire her spirit. 

I honestly don't know what I would have done without the support of you and this site. My friends think I'm ridiculous.They don't value felines as much as I do. I'm so relieved though. I haven't been able to enjoy my own cats because I've been so worried about the other ones. Now I can finally breathe. Everyone is safe and happy. Eventually the kittens will get a great home. I'm sure I'm going to adopt one myself lol thank you so much!

 

[msaimee]

What a wonderful story. Great job! It's true that a lot of people don't get those of us who rescue cats, but I figure God must love cats a lot to send us to help them.