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You might think that, but it isn't true. We don't have an official language, at all. Here's the website of a large lobby trying to make English be the official language: http://www.us-english.org/inc/
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Spanish
- Thread starter arie85
- Start Date
My wife teaches Persian in college. I see the textbooks on her desk right now. They say Persian although the language is also known as Farsi. Iran, like Canada and the U.S. has more than one language. Iran used to be known as Persia. There are many cultures in Iran, my wife is of the old Persian culture. Besides, I like saying that I live with two Persians!
I really agree with these examples of Canada and sign language. CarolPetunia, that is well worded! It is good to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
To the people who have gone to a different country with military or just with life in general, you will always tend to gravitate towards the English speaking places and groups if that is all you know. That does not help the language issue, but it does help your cultural shock. If you have never lived in another country or attempted to get around it for any period of time, you will not understand the need for kindness and patience when you don't speak the language or don't want to learn for whatever reason (vacation, temp move, too overwhelming, etc.). Kindness is a universal language.
Americans travel around and have communities in other countries, just like what happens here. But many Ameicans never experience the flip side of things.
Well said and I agree with you totally.
What an excellent analogy! And while I'm posting yet again... y'know, I love it when signs, instructions, etc., are in multiple languages, because it's an easy way to pick up a little of another language. And if you're into etymology, it's also lots of fun to see how the words do or do not relate in different languages...
I really like this thread. It is interesting that people I don't usually see in IMO have chimed in
Why should English be the official language? Why not Lakota or Chinese or Swahili? Some would argue because English is the dominant language. Following that argument, Spanish will soon be spoken by just as many people. Should we make Spanish the official language then?
I think we native English speakers to get off our high-horse and accept other ways. Even Dr. Phil realizes that a healthy relationship cannot include a "my way or the highway" mentality. We are in a relationship here. Time to start playing fair with immigrants and the rest of the planet.
Why should English be the official language? Why not Lakota or Chinese or Swahili? Some would argue because English is the dominant language. Following that argument, Spanish will soon be spoken by just as many people. Should we make Spanish the official language then?
I think we native English speakers to get off our high-horse and accept other ways. Even Dr. Phil realizes that a healthy relationship cannot include a "my way or the highway" mentality. We are in a relationship here. Time to start playing fair with immigrants and the rest of the planet.
Beautifully said.
Wow, I didn't know the US didn't have an official language! I had always just assumed it was English, and that all countries had an "official" language (or languages, as the case may be ...). Interesting!
Well said!
It's easy for me to say I wouldn't have a problem with Spanish being included as an official language in the States -- I'm just used to hearing and seeing multiple languages, and I like that exposure. A while back, I belonged to a fan forum for the TV show La Femme Nikita (or just plain Nikita in the US), and the one really hot guy on the show was played by a French-Canadian actor. A lot of his interviews were given in French only, with no translations (because they were for the French-language media). I ended up translating those interviews for my American friends on the forums, and I really had a blast doing it. I'd love to learn more languages (and to improve my French ... dramatically) -- here in Canada, at least, being multilingual really improves your employment opportunities.
That's where I got confused. I knew that Iranians spoke Farsi but didn't know the language was also referred to as Persian. I knew that Iran used to be called Persia, just as Thailand used to be Siam. (I don't think I could ever get used to a Thailandese kitty.
I wanted to ask - why so some folks refer to themselves as Iranian and others prefer Persian. Has it anything to do with how they are perceived worldwide?
Here is a link that best answers your question:Originally Posted by Yosemite
That's where I got confused. I knew that Iranians spoke Farsi but didn't know the language was also referred to as Persian. I knew that Iran used to be called Persia, just as Thailand used to be Siam. (I don't think I could ever get used to a Thailandese kitty.)
I wanted to ask - why so some folks refer to themselves as Iranian and others prefer Persian. Has it anything to do with how they are perceived worldwide?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people
Regarding your last question, since the infamous "Axis of Evil" statement, Persians in this country would prefer to be called Persian, even more so than in the past. The main thing though is it identifies a group of people rather than a country whose borders have changed so much throughout history that Iran no longer identifies a group of people.
I think us spoiled Amercians need to just accept it.....Sorry guys!!!!!
I don't think there is a country out there that only speaks one language. It sucks for those of us that grew up without a second language, but change is good. I sometimes wish I was from another country where you learn 4-5 different languages! My granny is from Italy and she speaks Italian, German, French, and since those are close to spanish she can comunicate easily with the spanish language. Oh yeah, of course she can speak english!!! So that makes 5 right?!
Bien Dicho!
And I would love to add like always I say, "this is what you can breath here on TCS!" all Kindness!
Here's what gets me...
I am either 2nd or 3rd generation american - depending on which side of the family you want to trace. Back when she arrived here, my grandmother, who spoke english, was shamed and bullied into speaking only english by anyone outside the family who ever heard her speak Polish. As kids, my sister and I would beg her to speak it because it just sounded so cool to us... it was different and new which made it exciting. She wouldn't. She was scared... as if the FBI were going to swoop down out of the skies and arrest her at the first hint of a "Dzien dobry". She also made my grandfather change his first and last name so it didn't sound Polish, because she was deathly afraid he'd never get a job.
The plain fact is, no one should have to go through that. It's incredibly demeaning. And my mother, my uncle, my sister and I all lost out on a valuable learning experience because of it. I could be fluent in Polish by now. Instead, I know only enough to get my face slapped if I were to say it in public.
In my lifetime, I have studied three different languages - french, spanish and italian. I have been to Quebec... I have also been all over Italy. Surely they speak english in their major cities, but they also have signs in french, italian, german, etc. There's no anarchy afoot because they were helping others. If nothing else, I got a bit of a giggle out of some of their english translastions (in the airport they had an exit labeled as "way out". Sure I knew what it meant, but that didn't stop our group from walking around the airport going "way out man... far out dude". Eh, we were a little slaphappy after that long plane ride
) But the plain fact was, they tried. They were accepting. And the plain fact that they were willing to help me made me more interested in learning about them... their language... their culture.
I learned a very valuable lesson in their acceptance when I found myself in a small mom 'n pop shop in Assissi and realized rather quickly that I didn't know the Italian word for "traveler's check". It took almost an hour, but the woman's willingness to put up with my broken Italian, and my willingness to put up with her broken English (ok, and a call to her local bank) made for not only a great experience, but a sale. I still have that container as a reminder.
There's also the time when I held a garage sale and was selling a used bike. There was a man who came to the sale and wanted to buy the bike, but as I found out very quickly, he spoke no english. With my broken spanish I found out that he has just moved to this country to make a life for himself and needed the bike to get to his ESL classes. So my few minutes of Spanish helped this man feel as if he had the chance to change his life. I can't see the harm in that.
A quick check of wikipedia shows that: "Approximately 337 languages are spoken or signed by the population, of which 176 are indigenous to the area. 52 languages formerly spoken in the country's territory are now extinct (Grimes 2000)." 337 languages! That is not only a wonderful thought, but an amazing asset to our country. If we could learn to embrace this, could you imagine how our dealings with other countries would improve?
I once witnessed a closing done completely in Vietnamese. This couple had just moved to the US and was buying their first house. While they knew English, it was almost impossible for them to decifer all the legal mumbo jumbo in their second language. A friend of the company was happy to act as translator and it was almost magical to watch. To see this couple going from struggling, but really trying, to understand to making an informed decision on legal documents in a matter of minutes... it was almost as if they were touched by the little bit of effort we took to help them along their journey. What an amazing thing to experiece.
While I fully admit I'm being long winded here... all I am saying is, really... truly... what does it hurt if someone speaks another language? Why deny someone of their culture or their past? Why shame someone into doing something only because you want them to. Especially with the dawn of the internet, we no longer live in a closed off society confined to our own little world of americanized life. We have this grand opportunity to share with the world and learn from each other, but all we want to do is shut that door because we won't take the time to put in a little effort. We want them to speak English because it is easy for us, but why should we be the only place in the world not to learn another language because it's too hard? Let them have signs in Spanish... and French and German and Swahili for that matter. The world is not just us... it's all of us.
I am either 2nd or 3rd generation american - depending on which side of the family you want to trace. Back when she arrived here, my grandmother, who spoke english, was shamed and bullied into speaking only english by anyone outside the family who ever heard her speak Polish. As kids, my sister and I would beg her to speak it because it just sounded so cool to us... it was different and new which made it exciting. She wouldn't. She was scared... as if the FBI were going to swoop down out of the skies and arrest her at the first hint of a "Dzien dobry". She also made my grandfather change his first and last name so it didn't sound Polish, because she was deathly afraid he'd never get a job.
The plain fact is, no one should have to go through that. It's incredibly demeaning. And my mother, my uncle, my sister and I all lost out on a valuable learning experience because of it. I could be fluent in Polish by now. Instead, I know only enough to get my face slapped if I were to say it in public.
In my lifetime, I have studied three different languages - french, spanish and italian. I have been to Quebec... I have also been all over Italy. Surely they speak english in their major cities, but they also have signs in french, italian, german, etc. There's no anarchy afoot because they were helping others. If nothing else, I got a bit of a giggle out of some of their english translastions (in the airport they had an exit labeled as "way out". Sure I knew what it meant, but that didn't stop our group from walking around the airport going "way out man... far out dude". Eh, we were a little slaphappy after that long plane ride
I learned a very valuable lesson in their acceptance when I found myself in a small mom 'n pop shop in Assissi and realized rather quickly that I didn't know the Italian word for "traveler's check". It took almost an hour, but the woman's willingness to put up with my broken Italian, and my willingness to put up with her broken English (ok, and a call to her local bank) made for not only a great experience, but a sale. I still have that container as a reminder.
There's also the time when I held a garage sale and was selling a used bike. There was a man who came to the sale and wanted to buy the bike, but as I found out very quickly, he spoke no english. With my broken spanish I found out that he has just moved to this country to make a life for himself and needed the bike to get to his ESL classes. So my few minutes of Spanish helped this man feel as if he had the chance to change his life. I can't see the harm in that.
A quick check of wikipedia shows that: "Approximately 337 languages are spoken or signed by the population, of which 176 are indigenous to the area. 52 languages formerly spoken in the country's territory are now extinct (Grimes 2000)." 337 languages! That is not only a wonderful thought, but an amazing asset to our country. If we could learn to embrace this, could you imagine how our dealings with other countries would improve?
I once witnessed a closing done completely in Vietnamese. This couple had just moved to the US and was buying their first house. While they knew English, it was almost impossible for them to decifer all the legal mumbo jumbo in their second language. A friend of the company was happy to act as translator and it was almost magical to watch. To see this couple going from struggling, but really trying, to understand to making an informed decision on legal documents in a matter of minutes... it was almost as if they were touched by the little bit of effort we took to help them along their journey. What an amazing thing to experiece.
While I fully admit I'm being long winded here... all I am saying is, really... truly... what does it hurt if someone speaks another language? Why deny someone of their culture or their past? Why shame someone into doing something only because you want them to. Especially with the dawn of the internet, we no longer live in a closed off society confined to our own little world of americanized life. We have this grand opportunity to share with the world and learn from each other, but all we want to do is shut that door because we won't take the time to put in a little effort. We want them to speak English because it is easy for us, but why should we be the only place in the world not to learn another language because it's too hard? Let them have signs in Spanish... and French and German and Swahili for that matter. The world is not just us... it's all of us.
Originally Posted by MuttigreeMom
Here's what gets me...
I am either 2nd or 3rd generation american - depending on which side of the family you want to trace. Back when she arrived here, my grandmother, who spoke english, was shamed and bullied into speaking only english by anyone outside the family who ever heard her speak Polish. As kids, my sister and I would beg her to speak it because it just sounded so cool to us... it was different and new which made it exciting. She wouldn't. She was scared... as if the FBI were going to swoop down out of the skies and arrest her at the first hint of a "Dzien dobry". She also made my grandfather change his first and last name so it didn't sound Polish, because she was deathly afraid he'd never get a job.
The plain fact is, no one should have to go through that. It's incredibly demeaning. And my mother, my uncle, my sister and I all lost out on a valuable learning experience because of it. I could be fluent in Polish by now. Instead, I know only enough to get my face slapped if I were to say it in public.
In my lifetime, I have studied three different languages - french, spanish and italian. I have been to Quebec... I have also been all over Italy. Surely they speak english in their major cities, but they also have signs in french, italian, german, etc. There's no anarchy afoot because they were helping others. If nothing else, I got a bit of a giggle out of some of their english translastions (in the airport they had an exit labeled as "way out". Sure I knew what it meant, but that didn't stop our group from walking around the airport going "way out man... far out dude". Eh, we were a little slaphappy after that long plane ride) But the plain fact was, they tried. They were accepting. And the plain fact that they were willing to help me made me more interested in learning about them... their language... their culture.
I learned a very valuable lesson in their acceptance when I found myself in a small mom 'n pop shop in Assissi and realized rather quickly that I didn't know the Italian word for "traveler's check". It took almost an hour, but the woman's willingness to put up with my broken Italian, and my willingness to put up with her broken English (ok, and a call to her local bank) made for not only a great experience, but a sale. I still have that container as a reminder.
There's also the time when I held a garage sale and was selling a used bike. There was a man who came to the sale and wanted to buy the bike, but as I found out very quickly, he spoke no english. With my broken spanish I found out that he has just moved to this country to make a life for himself and needed the bike to get to his ESL classes. So my few minutes of Spanish helped this man feel as if he had the chance to change his life. I can't see the harm in that.
A quick check of wikipedia shows that: "Approximately 337 languages are spoken or signed by the population, of which 176 are indigenous to the area. 52 languages formerly spoken in the country's territory are now extinct (Grimes 2000)." 337 languages! That is not only a wonderful thought, but an amazing asset to our country. If we could learn to embrace this, could you imagine how our dealings with other countries would improve?
I once witnessed a closing done completely in Vietnamese. This couple had just moved to the US and was buying their first house. While they knew English, it was almost impossible for them to decifer all the legal mumbo jumbo in their second language. A friend of the company was happy to act as translator and it was almost magical to watch. To see this couple going from struggling, but really trying, to understand to making an informed decision on legal documents in a matter of minutes... it was almost as if they were touched by the little bit of effort we took to help them along their journey. What an amazing thing to experiece.
While I fully admit I'm being long winded here... all I am saying is, really... truly... what does it hurt if someone speaks another language? Why deny someone of their culture or their past? Why shame someone into doing something only because you want them to. Especially with the dawn of the internet, we no longer live in a closed off society confined to our own little world of americanized life. We have this grand opportunity to share with the world and learn from each other, but all we want to do is shut that door because we won't take the time to put in a little effort. We want them to speak English because it is easy for us, but why should we be the only place in the world not to learn another language because it's too hard? Let them have signs in Spanish... and French and German and Swahili for that matter. The world is not just us... it's all of us.
Amen, sister! And your stories reminded me of something that happened when I was much younger...
I stopped at a garage sale in Austin one summer day, looked around, and picked up a beautiful old glass brick. I carried it to the table where a young man was handling the money, and I said, "Hi! What's the price on this one?"
The man smiled, nudged his friend beside him, who was reading a book, and gestured to him in sign language. The friend looked up, gestured back, and the first man wrote down a price for me on a tablet he had in front of him.
Well, that shamed me -- I was a writer, communication was my life, but I had no idea how to speak to deaf people! So I found the American Sign Language alphabet in a dictionary and started practicing the letters.
The following weekend, I was driving down that same street and the same two men were holding another garage sale, so I stopped. As I approached the table, the first man recognized me and nodded. In response, I fumbled through the hand gestures for H, E, L --
And the man leaped up, signing frantically at me and grinning like crazy! He thumped his friend to get his attention and they both started signing with such eagerness... it broke my heart to disappoint them, explaining that all I knew was 26 letters.
But the first man wrote something on his tablet and showed it to his friend, who nodded first at him, then at me. Then he tore off the page and gave it to me. It read, "You are a kind lady. May you be always blessed."
It's just such a fundamental thing, y'know? To want to be understood.
I stopped at a garage sale in Austin one summer day, looked around, and picked up a beautiful old glass brick. I carried it to the table where a young man was handling the money, and I said, "Hi! What's the price on this one?"
The man smiled, nudged his friend beside him, who was reading a book, and gestured to him in sign language. The friend looked up, gestured back, and the first man wrote down a price for me on a tablet he had in front of him.
Well, that shamed me -- I was a writer, communication was my life, but I had no idea how to speak to deaf people! So I found the American Sign Language alphabet in a dictionary and started practicing the letters.
The following weekend, I was driving down that same street and the same two men were holding another garage sale, so I stopped. As I approached the table, the first man recognized me and nodded. In response, I fumbled through the hand gestures for H, E, L --
And the man leaped up, signing frantically at me and grinning like crazy! He thumped his friend to get his attention and they both started signing with such eagerness... it broke my heart to disappoint them, explaining that all I knew was 26 letters.
But the first man wrote something on his tablet and showed it to his friend, who nodded first at him, then at me. Then he tore off the page and gave it to me. It read, "You are a kind lady. May you be always blessed."
It's just such a fundamental thing, y'know? To want to be understood.
Speaking of "official" languages, Spanish is the official language of Paraguay, but only 7% of the people speak it as their native language.
On the other hand, Guatemala has 23 "official" languages in addition to Spanish.
Wonderful story! Thank you!Originally Posted by CarolPetunia
Amen, sister! And your stories reminded me of something that happened when I was much younger...
I stopped at a garage sale in Austin one summer day, looked around, and picked up a beautiful old glass brick. I carried it to the table where a young man was handling the money, and I said, "Hi! What's the price on this one?"
The man smiled, nudged his friend beside him, who was reading a book, and gestured to him in sign language. The friend looked up, gestured back, and the first man wrote down a price for me on a tablet he had in front of him.
Well, that shamed me -- I was a writer, communication was my life, but I had no idea how to speak to deaf people! So I found the American Sign Language alphabet in a dictionary and started practicing the letters.
The following weekend, I was driving down that same street and the same two men were holding another garage sale, so I stopped. As I approached the table, the first man recognized me and nodded. In response, I fumbled through the hand gestures for H, E, L --
And the man leaped up, signing frantically at me and grinning like crazy! He thumped his friend to get his attention and they both started signing with such eagerness... it broke my heart to disappoint them, explaining that all I knew was 26 letters.
But the first man wrote something on his tablet and showed it to his friend, who nodded first at him, then at me. Then he tore off the page and gave it to me. It read, "You are a kind lady. May you be always blessed."
It's just such a fundamental thing, y'know? To want to be understood.
English is a really hard language to learn if you think about it. We use so many different words to mean many of the same things. I've taken spanish, french, and russian. The way my teachers explained it to me its no wonder why all these foreigners are having a hard time speaking english. But I still agree that if you are going to move to a foriegn country you should try to at least be able to hold a conversation and get your basic needs across in the native language. Some don't even try. It is really frustrating to go to get something and find yourself facing an employee who is supposed to be helping you and he can't even understand you or vice versa.
I'm also wondering: Has this been moved to the IMO forum? haha. It should if it hasn't.
I'm also wondering: Has this been moved to the IMO forum? haha. It should if it hasn't.
