Socializing my feral Panda Bear - advice and encouragement?

[segelkatt]

 
@segelkatt  Now THAT is a majestic looking cat! Wow, I just love him! 

His name is Arabic for a certain type of orange tree that grows in the Near East (like Valencia or Cara Cara oranges here). He now weighs 13 lbs, is 11 years old (I adopted him in November 2017)  and is like a live teddy bear, he loves to be cuddled and comes to sit next to me with his paws on my leg or on my lap, loudly purring away and also sleeps in my bed next to my head if he can get the Persian to leave that space for him (usually not) . Hopefully Panda Bear (I love that name)  will turn into a cuddle bear also. 

 

[patiently]

Back from my weekend away! Partner did good with the little imp, who was apparently decent while I was gone. Still vocal at night and during the day but maybe a little quieter than before. Continues to be frustrated he can't magically walk through the windows. The earplugs that were recommended have been a godsend.

His eye looks SO MUCH BETTER! He eats chicken from my hand, or at least near my hand, if I drop it - sometimes he's too shy to take it right from my fingers.

Lots of visits with Pangolin, who I let come into the room sometimes when he's especially curious. Much mutual trilling. Pangolin seems curious but wary. Panda Bear is hard to read... he trill-meows almost nonstop, which I think is friendly? Today Pangolin rolled on his back a few feet away from Panda. No hisses. 

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• patiently
• Mar 27, 2017

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• patiently
• Mar 27, 2017

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• patiently
• Mar 27, 2017

 

[patiently]

Silly boys relaxing together. This is the chillest I've ever seen them. Usually at least one of them is a bit wary.

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• patiently
• Mar 27, 2017

 

[segelkatt]

He's starting to look really good. By his behavior you can tell he was no feral, just a stray who had lost his home and is now adjusting to a new home and a new companion. Hopefully he will stop the night time noises too. You may want to play with him really hard just before bedtime so he will be too tired to roam around at night. With Pangolin and Panda Bear apparently getting along so well you may want to try  letting Panda Bear out to the rest of the place during the day, under supervision of course, and see how he acts.  

 

[patiently]

 
You may want to play with him really hard just before bedtime so he will be too tired to roam around at night. 

He doesn't seem to understand how to play, unfortunately... or else he isn't interested. I've tried a few different toys. He either ignore them (string, balls, catnip fuzzies) or acts scared and hisses (bird on a string/fishing rod toy). There are also some stationary toys... a little ball in a track and a bobble hanging from his cat tree. Haven't seen him use them either, though. I've been trying to get his attention and talk to him more during the day so he'll sleep more at night, but I also don't want to bother him too much when he'd rather be cat-napping.

Yeah, we may try to let him explore more of the apartment soon. He is only now just getting more comfortable hanging out in places that aren't the corners in the bedroom, so I think I'll wait until he seems to really feel at home in here. The rest of my apartment is an open concept living room and kitchen, so it'll be a lot to expose him to at once. 

 

[tabbytom]

Silly boys relaxing together. This is the chillest I've ever seen them. Usually at least one of them is a bit wary.

This is wonderful!

Intergrating him to the household is foremost important than toys. What you want is both kitties get along. As for toys, he might just be interested in some or none but it's no harm trying to get him interested in toys.

It could just be his character but looks like he's enjoying Pangolin's company.

Well done! Do post more photos of them

 

[segelkatt]

Some cats have never learned to play. The Persian I adopted at age 11 never did. The people who had her for 10 years said she never played with anything either but loved to be cuddled and groomed. The people who had her for the first year of her life probably did not have any idea about cats as they took out her claws and when they moved back to Japan they just put the cat outside, locked up the house and left, never asking if anyone would like to have the cat or taking her to a shelter. Can you imagine: a 1 year old cat with no claws, a huge amount of hair and just left to herself? Poor kitty was fed by the neighbors until one could catch her and took her in and kept her inside until that person passed away and I got her.  She watches other cats play but she never participates, although she does go crazy over catnip. Panda Bear may never have learned to play either. 

 

[patiently]

My approach and in particular my hands are still usually getting sour little hisses from PB, unless they come bearing pieces of chicken... Must have patience! I'm hoping he will change a little once his hormones die down at some point, but maybe that's a bit of a fantasy. I'll love his mean lil' face regardless.  

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

 
I'm hoping he will change a little once his hormones die down at some point, but maybe that's a bit of a fantasy.

No fantasy about it, he'll change, and grow sweeter as the weeks pass.  There's a cuddly cat hiding behind that "mean lil' face," just waiting to surprise himself and you.

.

 

[theyremine]

I've had one of my fosters (a feral trapped at 6 months) over a year.   She still sometimes becomes fearful and  hisses at me when I try to touch her.   To let her know she's in charge I move slowly.   If she hisses I move my hand back.   I wait a minute leaving my hand in her sight.   Then I try to touch her again using just one finger.   Sometimes it takes 3 tries, but she always gives in .     It helps if you are at  his level and not standing/bending over him.  Keep up the great work!

P.S.   And she is just starting to learn to play!

 

[segelkatt]

 
My approach and in particular my hands are still usually getting sour little hisses from PB, unless they come bearing pieces of chicken... Must have patience! I'm hoping he will change a little once his hormones die down at some point, but maybe that's a bit of a fantasy. I'll love his mean lil' face regardless.  

How can you say Panda Bear has a "mean little face'? I think he's sweet looking and not mean at all, especially now that his eye isn't all goopy anymore.

 

[patiently]

 
How can you say Panda Bear has a "mean little face'? I think he's sweet looking and not mean at all, especially now that his eye isn't all goopy anymore.

You haven't seen his hissy face! 

 Otherwise he looks deceptively angelic, I agree... 

 

[patiently]

 
I've had one of my fosters (a feral trapped at 6 months) over a year.   She still sometimes becomes fearful and  hisses at me when I try to touch her.   To let her know she's in charge I move slowly.   If she hisses I move my hand back.   I wait a minute leaving my hand in her sight.   Then I try to touch her again using just one finger.   Sometimes it takes 3 tries, but she always gives in .     It helps if you are at  his level and not standing/bending over him.  Keep up the great work!

P.S.   And she is just starting to learn to play!

Oh, hm, I'll try this... I usually back off when he hisses, or just switch to petting him with his fuzzy stick. I'm scared of being swatted! Although I guess none of the swats he's landed have become infected or anything, so maybe I should be braver... or else put on the gardening gloves. 

As long as he eventually stops howling all night, I'd be OK with him as a pet even if he didn't usually let me touch him. But since the consensus of some others in the thread seems to be that he isn't totally feral, I do want to keep pushing those boundaries to see how much progress I can make with him. 

I'm getting some Cat Attract in the mail today or tomorrow, which I'm going to mix in with his litter... then I'm going to take the VERY brave step of sleeping without the tarp (though I'll put it under my bottom sheet to protect the mattress). Here's hoping I don't wake up to pee on my legs like last time (sans Cat Attract). 

 

 

[patiently]

Continuing to make progress! SLEEPING WITHOUT THE TARP!!! No peeing on the bed!!!  I added some Cat Attract litter in the boxes to be safe, but yeah, he is being good and not peeing on me. Phew! He also lets me pet him sometimes. I got in a good minute and a half while he ate today, and yesterday he let me do it while he sat on the cat tree. The thing is, I don't think he likes it. He looks uncomfortable and his flank twitches like crazy. I think we're at the point where he trusts me enough to sometimes touch him, but he's not necessarily relaxed enough to enjoy it? Anyway, it's progress for sure!

I also think he's getting quieter at night!!! Although his M.O. is definitely still to peer morosely out the window, I can't even remember the last time he tried to escape out of one. He still does his crying but not to the same extent... last night I skipped the ear plugs and I think I only woke up a couple of times. This is HUGE, guys! If it keeps dropping off, we're golden.

My partner tried to pet him with the feather wand today, and got a hiss. I felt bad, but also good, because it means my progress with him isn't a fluke, y'know? He trusts me  - I've earned that. Makes me feel proud.

I do have a question about cat-on-cat socialization. The play-dates with Pangolin continue. There isn't growling or yowling or hissing. But sometimes Pango really wants to play. He'll bat at Panda Bear or chase him when he moves. This is punctuated by a lot of Pangolin rolling on his back and meowing. For the most part, PB seems hesitant but not angry, per se - his ears are usually up and his pupils aren't dilated. But sometimes they get into a sort of mutual swat when he is in a bit of a corner, and I've seen his ears momentarily go down a couple of times. Think, like, Pangolin doing little swats at him and PB up on his hindquarters kinda boxing. I've let this play out a couple of times. PB just ends up skirting around him to one of his other hang-outs.

Is this OK? Is this normal? Should I separate when this happens? I figured that PB could tell Pango was just playing from all the rolling and stuff, and at worst felt annoyed, not threatened. It doesn't seem to affect them too much outside of the incidents. Right now they're napping/grooming about two feet away from each other, Pangolin on top of the cat tree and PB a little lower down on top of the dresser. Maybe dealing with spunky attempts at play is a part of integrating into the house...? But what are your thoughts?

Here's a pic of some of the tomfoolery.

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• patiently
• Apr 2, 2017

 

 

[tabbytom]

That's good report!

Don't be too enthusiastic with the petting. If he allows you to pet, do it for a short while and take a break. Praise him while you are petting him. Find out where he likes and don't like to be petted so that you don't irritate him.

Get your partner to form his hand i to a fist and let PB smell the fist before touching him. Once PB rubs his scent on the fist, then proceed to move the fist along the side of PB's face to the ears. Once PB's more confident, then proceed further.

Pangolin is showing signs of submission to PB by rolling on the back. As long as there's no play aggressions, they should be ok. Looks like PB does not really wants to play and therefore he use his hind legs and he's telling Pangolin to stop it. It's just some cat communication.

It's good that they are laying close to each other while resting/sleeping.

Just observe them and as long as there's no growling and hissing and heavy batting, they should be fine.

 

[patiently]

Don't be too enthusiastic with the petting. If he allows you to pet, do it for a short while and take a break. Praise him while you are petting him. Find out where he likes and don't like to be petted so that you don't irritate him.

Will do! 

Partner isn't even at the pet-with-hand stage yet. He's still trying to touch him with the fuzzy stick, haha. PB will let him do it if he is hiding in his cage, i.e. if there is a barrier between them. Slow progress! Once PB graduates to the rest of the apartment, they'll see more of each other, so that will help. 

I'll have to start thinking about that soon... about when to let PB have the whole place. I just know that when PB gets access, I'll see a lot less of him, sigh. I think I know the exact corner he'll hide away in, even. So it will really put a damper on me making social progress with him. But I also don't want to restrict him to the bedroom just for that... When is he 'ready'?

Well, I suppose the crying is a good benchmark, since my partner can't sleep around him being loud at night, even with ear plugs... so he is on the couch right now. And I wouldn't want to shut PB out of our bedroom at night, since that's his first and safest place. So since it seems to be dropping off, maybe I'll wait to see if it stops? Although who knows what will happen when he discovers seven new windows with outside views. Hrm. 

Or maybe I'll ride out whatever the max period is for testosterone dropping off post-neuter. I think that's five or six weeks? So it'd be three or four weeks from now. I can't believe it's only been a little over two weeks!!! This is how long the TNR people advised I keep him in the crate, so it's astounding how much progress I've been able to make since then.

 

[msaimee]

Yes, horseplay between two cats, especially two male cats, is common. I have 5 cats, and there is a lot of horseplay between three of them. As long as there is no hissing or growling or real aggression resulting in injury, there is nothing to worry about. You've made phenomenal process with PB, in terms of him adjusting to you, to indoor life, and to your other cat. You are doing a great job!

One of my adopted feral cats does not enjoy being touched or petted either. She will tolerate a small amount of petting once in a while, but that is okay since my other cats are very affectionate. PB may never be as affectionate as your other cat, but the fact that you can touch him and handle him is wonderful. It is very likely there will come a day when he discovers that he enjoys being stroked on his cheeks and scratched behind his ears, but that may take a little while longer.

 

[segelkatt]

I think you are way to cautious with PB. Your cats will sort it all out by themselves and it is highly unlikely that either one of them will hurt the other. With Pangolin showing his belly to PB he is confident that PB will not hurt him. So stop worrying about those two.

 

[tabbytom]

Even if your partner is not petting PB or maybe trying to pet him, let PB get use to his presence and let PB make the first move in owning him. You cannot force PB to like you or him or anyone else just by petting him. It must be on PB's own time and terms. Once you rushed in, it'll take a longer time than you expect. So, without using the fuzzy stick is better because PB might have other thoughts in his mind that your partner is using the stick to hurt him as not sure if that happened to him before he was rescued.

As long as your house is cat safe, I believe it is as you already have Pangolin living there, just let PB wander and explore the house by himself but keep the place where he is as his safe room. So that he can retreat back there anytime he wants till the day he finds that the house and people are totally safe for him.

For me, I would prefer to have my boy sleep with me. But not sure if PB wants to do sleep with you on the bed. If not, at least in the same room. Otherwise, if you keep him out, he'll wan to come in or if you keep him in the bedroom, he'll want to go out. This is another level you have to tackle.

It'll be good if all he has access to all the 7 windows and that will keep him occupied, but it has to be safe, so that he can't escape.

It'll take 6 - 8 weeks for the testeterones to be fully flushed out of his system and you'll slowly see the change.

 

[patiently]

Partner pet him with the brush today. Progress! Partner is getting into it, and has decided he likes PB. Apparently PB leaning into some chin brushes was all it took to win him over.

My apartment is cat-proofed... for my civilized house-cat. I know PB would run like a hurricane across all the surfaces and climb blinds like some kind of hell-monkey... and then perhaps disappear under a corner table never to be seen again (or not for a while). So I'm hesitant to go there yet... especially when I seem to be 'taming' him so well in his bedroom home.

But you're right... this week I will start packing knick-knacks away and get the place ready... I'm thinking one more week of bedroom to bond first. He is actually letting me come over and straight up pet him now, which is amazing. Sometimes he will indicate displeasure, usually by pulling away sort of suddenly, moving but not quite  swatting his paw, and not hissing... just a gentle "stahpp!!", which I obey. 

I can't believe that dirty little boy I trapped has turned into this shy, fluffy friend. 

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• patiently
• Apr 3, 2017