Should we go on prednisolone?

[Musiaka]

I'm at wits end with Musiaka's vomiting.
We've been seeing two vets and both say that gallbladder removal is the only way to go, because Musiaka has a couple of stones in there. They both say that it's what causes his nausea - the stones move and make him puke.

This just doesn't feel right and I can't wrap my head around Musiaka being cut open and one of his organs removed because of two stones. I just can't, it makes no sense to me. The stones are attached to the lining. They are too large to cause blockage. His gallbladder is of a normal size. How can it be the sole sollution and how can they be so sure it will solve the issue? For me it feels like a huge risk.

We recently took a course of antibiotics and Musiaka didn't vomit once while on it. The vomiting returned soon after we finished the course. We also had 4 courses of milk thistle this year, each course seems less and less effective for some reason. Or maybe because I am forced to use cream treat to mix it up with and Musiaka is sensitive to it.

He only eats canned food and I recently switched it to Purina Pro Plan Delicate, turkey being the sole protein. I give him b12 daily and s.boulardii. Egg yolk for hairballs. No effect. Good thing is that Musiaka maintains his weight and is overall active, playful and social.

He was on prednisolone for 6 months in 2019 with good results. I am thinking to go on it long term. One of the vet would be down for it, the other says it will damage his liver and won't prescribe.
What should we do?

 

[di and bob]

They do gallbladder removal on humans all the time with excellent results. Ask if it could be done by laparoscopy. it is minimally invasive and they heal quickly. If it can't be handled with the diet I myself would have it done. It is only going to get worse and make him miserable. Definitely have a long talk with a vet you trust and see what your options are. I have given Prednisone long-term successfully and it prolonged life for a few years, but only as a last resort for cancer that is terminal. Those two stones are causing him to be sick and not feel good, you can live a normal life without a gallbladder. You might ask about medications to dissolve the stones, or at least keep them where they are, and what diets he should be on. (low in fat, by the way, cream is high in fat). There are new options out there for humans, like 'blasting' the stones and making the pieces so small they are passed, I don't know if they have this for cats. Keep him monitored, the surgery is much more successful in a healthy cat than waiting too long and he is critical......

 

[Musiaka]

They do gallbladder removal on humans all the time with excellent results. Ask if it could be done by laparoscopy. it is minimally invasive and they heal quickly. If it can't be handled with the diet I myself would have it done. It is only going to get worse and make him miserable. Definitely have a long talk with a vet you trust and see what your options are. I have given Prednisone long-term successfully and it prolonged life for a few years, but only as a last resort for cancer that is terminal. Those two stones are causing him to be sick and not feel good, you can live a normal life without a gallbladder. You might ask about medications to dissolve the stones, or at least keep them where they are, and what diets he should be on. (low in fat, by the way, cream is high in fat). There are new options out there for humans, like 'blasting' the stones and making the pieces so small they are passed, I don't know if they have this for cats. Keep him monitored, the surgery is much more successful in a healthy cat than waiting too long and he is critical......

But I'm thinking - do the stones really move around if they are attached to the gallbladder lining?
Apparently they cannot be dissolved by Ursodiol because of that and because they are calcified.
Also - wouldn't Musiaka avoid going crazy, running, jumping and climbing on stuff if the stones were moving and causing him pain? He has these playful moments everyday.
I just don't know... 5mg of daily pred prevented his vomiting completely in 2019. It somehow feels safer than putting him through a risky surgery, anesthesia, pain and stress, without knowing if its going to help. When we did an ultrasound in 2019, the vet didn't say anything about gallstones, so I'm assuming he didn't have them. But he was still throwing up...

 

[Musiaka]

I got some pictures of Musiaka's ultrasound. Seems like more than one stone. All attached to the lining. Eh, we won't get away without the surgery, will we?

 

[di and bob]

Steroids long term have all kinds of side effects, mostly serious. You could try an antinausea med and monitor the stones to see how they are growing. There are supplements and food that can help stop them from growing.

 

[Musiaka]

Steroids long term have all kinds of side effects, mostly serious. You could try an antinausea med and monitor the stones to see how they are growing. There are supplements and food that can help stop them from growing.

Like pepcid?
Do you maybe happen to know the names of those supplements and food? There is so little information available on cat gallstones online :/

 

[di and bob]

Pepcid is for stomach acid. I went on Amazon and put in gallbladder supplements for cats and there were many. Most had milk whistle and said magnesium was very important too. I get My meds by looking through the reviews and seeing which ones people liked. Most of my meds are from VetriScience and work well, you might see if they have anything. You could call your vet and see what they recommend. A high protein low fat diet is needed too. I know how worrisome this can be. I pray you find something that works.....

 

[dustydiamond1]

Gypsy has problems with nerve jerks. It's like when humans get a nerve pinch in the wrist and you whip your hand back and forth after except she gets them in a left side front or back paw and she licks and digs til the foot pad is swollen and inflamed and she can't walk on it. This was back 5 yrs ago when she first adopted us. Back then we tried lots and lots of different medicines it was a horrible experience. Vet couldn't identify the problem other than something neurological. I finally figured out that 1/2 of 5mg Prednisolone every other day keeps the bad jerks away. She still has them once in a while but no feet digging. Shes been on this for about four and a half years (took lots of trial and error to get to it) Vet does blood work every year to verify liver and everything else is ok. Don't know anything about gall stones but for us the longterm Prednisolone has been a Godsend. Good luck, keep us updated.

 

[Musiaka]

Pepcid is for stomach acid. I went on Amazon and put in gallbladder supplements for cats and there were many. Most had milk whistle and said magnesium was very important too. I get My meds by looking through the reviews and seeing which ones people liked. Most of my meds are from VetriScience and work well, you might see if they have anything. You could call your vet and see what they recommend. A high protein low fat diet is needed too. I know how worrisome this can be. I pray you find something that works.....

Ah, you mean milk thistle and similar. Milk thistle used to work well for Musiaka, but it stopped working lately, no idea why as it used to really make a difference. Our vet recommends SAMe, but I am yet to find one that's easy to give because Musiaka thinks it tastes awful.
As for antinausea meds I only know Cerenia and inject it twice a month, it works for a very short time... The vet says there is nothing similar to cerenia that can be used on a long term :/

 

[Musiaka]

Gypsy has problems with nerve jerks. It's like when humans get a nerve pinch in the wrist and you whip your hand back and forth after except she gets them in a left side front or back paw and she licks and digs til the foot pad is swollen and inflamed and she can't walk on it. This was back 5 yrs ago when she first adopted us. Back then we tried lots and lots of different medicines it was a horrible experience. Vet couldn't identify the problem other than something neurological. I finally figured out that 1/2 of 5mg Prednisolone every other day keeps the bad jerks away. She still has them once in a while but no feet digging. Shes been on this for about four and a half years (took lots of trial and error to get to it) Vet does blood work every year to verify liver and everything else is ok. Don't know anything about gall stones but for us the longterm Prednisolone has been a Godsend. Good luck, keep us updated.

Aww, poor Gypsy, what a scary and unpleasant thing! So glad you found what works for her. And wow, 4,5 years on pred is a lot! Has Gipsy ever had elevated liver enzymes from it?
I'm a bit worried because Musiaka has had some liver issues and one of his vets was like - it's because of prednisolone, its a horrible drug, you shouldn't have given it to him, yadda yadda. I understand that it's a very serious medication, but sometimes there is no choice...

 

[dustydiamond1]

Aww, poor Gypsy, what a scary and unpleasant thing! So glad you found what works for her. And wow, 4,5 years on pred is a lot! Has Gipsy ever had elevated liver enzymes from it?
I'm a bit worried because Musiaka has had some liver issues and one of his vets was like - it's because of prednisolone, its a horrible drug, you shouldn't have given it to him, yadda yadda. I understand that it's a very serious medication, but sometimes there is no choice...

Her liver enzymes have always been fine. It's a pretty low dose, 1/2 a small 5mg tab every other day, and in our case was basically a last resort. She takes the pill well

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Our vet recommends SAMe, but I am yet to find one that's easy to give because Musiaka thinks it tastes awful.
As for antinausea meds I only know Cerenia and inject it twice a month, it works for a very short time... The vet says there is nothing similar to cerenia that can be used on a long term :/

I guess you don't want to try to give SAMe via pill? That way he really doesn't have a choice but to take it. Or you can have it compounded into a flavored liquid, you might be able to get away with that. But it's supposed to be given on an empty stomach, so if you are adding it to his food and he's rejecting it, just as well I guess.

Cerenia, even the injectable, only lasts for around 24 hours. I can see why it's only working for a very short time if you're only giving it twice a month. Really though, using an anti-emetic is only covering up the problem, not resolving it.

You mentioned you have been seeing two vets and they both say the same thing. Are they with the same practice or completely unknown to each other? I get the impression you don't trust their opinions, so that's why I ask if they work together and that's why you might feel that way. If they do, then why not go to another Veterinary clinic for an unbiased opinion (be sure to take along all his records and that ultrasound) just to make yourself feel like you are doing everything you can before making your decision. If the new place says removal is your only option, then I think you have your answer. If they come up with another option, GREAT!

I would say, though, that if everything still points to gallbladder removal, the sooner the better, before he gets any worse. The healthier he is to begin with, the easier the recovery. Yes, it is risky, but later it might be riskier. Do your Vets think he is in any pain? My hubby has gallstones and often is in pain from them.

 

[dustydiamond1]

tarasgirl06 have you ever run across gallstone problems?

 

[maggie101]

I'm at wits end with Musiaka's vomiting.
We've been seeing two vets and both say that gallbladder removal is the only way to go, because Musiaka has a couple of stones in there. They both say that it's what causes his nausea - the stones move and make him puke.

This just doesn't feel right and I can't wrap my head around Musiaka being cut open and one of his organs removed because of two stones. I just can't, it makes no sense to me. The stones are attached to the lining. They are too large to cause blockage. His gallbladder is of a normal size. How can it be the sole sollution and how can they be so sure it will solve the issue? For me it feels like a huge risk.

We recently took a course of antibiotics and Musiaka didn't vomit once while on it. The vomiting returned soon after we finished the course. We also had 4 courses of milk thistle this year, each course seems less and less effective for some reason. Or maybe because I am forced to use cream treat to mix it up with and Musiaka is sensitive to it.

He only eats canned food and I recently switched it to Purina Pro Plan Delicate, turkey being the sole protein. I give him b12 daily and s.boulardii. Egg yolk for hairballs. No effect. Good thing is that Musiaka maintains his weight and is overall active, playful and social.

He was on prednisolone for 6 months in 2019 with good results. I am thinking to go on it long term. One of the vet would be down for it, the other says it will damage his liver and won't prescribe.
What should we do?

If that will make him feel better,go for it. I am trying to convince my mom to help take my cat to an internal medacine doc before things get worse. Prednisolone causing liver disease is just one of the many precautions all drugs have My cat with IBD,pancreati, liver inflammation took prednisolone

 

[Musiaka]

I got an idea to contact our old vet we had back in Sweden and asked him to send Musiaka's journal. How did I not come up with that earlier!
And guys! An ultrasound done on 2019-09-10 showed no abnormalities at all ( all organs looked good, no gallstones, no thickening, liver wasn't enlarged. Normal liver enzymes. He had leukopenia back then though.
How could he develop all these issues in just two years? I feel so awful, I must have done something awfully wrong... Also, he had violent vomiting flareups back then too, dark colored vomit, undigested food, not just clear yellow liquid like now. Pepcid used to help him a lot back then.
He was put on pred after that ultrasound in 2019 09, it says that we were down to 2,5 mg every other day with no vomiting, which I don't remember, i thought we were on 5 mg daily
But even without the stones he had really bad flareups... I know I probably sound like I'm grasping at straws here

 

[dustydiamond1]

I got an idea to contact our old vet we had back in Sweden and asked him to send Musiaka's journal. How did I not come up with that earlier!
And guys! An ultrasound done on 2019-09-10 showed no abnormalities at all ( all organs looked good, no gallstones, no thickening, liver wasn't enlarged. Normal liver enzymes. He had leukopenia back then though.
How could he develop all these issues in just two years? I feel so awful, I must have done something awfully wrong... Also, he had violent vomiting flareups back then too, dark colored vomit, undigested food, not just clear yellow liquid like now. Pepcid used to help him a lot back then.
He was put on pred after that ultrasound in 2019 09, it says that we were down to 2,5 mg every other day with no vomiting, which I don't remember, i thought we were on 5 mg daily
But even without the stones he had really bad flareups... I know I probably sound like I'm grasping at straws here

And just what is wrong with grasping straws? Gather enough and perhaps a solution may show up.

 

[dustydiamond1]

If that will make him feel better,go for it. I am trying to convince my mom to help take my cat to an internal medacine doc before things get worse. Prednisolone causing liver disease is just one of the many precautions all drugs have My cat with IBD,pancreati, liver inflammation took prednisolone

Good vibes for your poor cat and you. Hope your mom helps with the vet.

 

[sunny578]

Every cat I know who has gone on Prednisone long term has gotten diabetes I don't know much about gallstone issues, but I hope you figure out a good solution. Good luck!

 

[maggie101]

Every cat I know who has gone on Prednisone long term has gotten diabetes I don't know much about gallstone issues, but I hope you figure out a good solution. Good luck!

She was on it 5 years. Lived to be 18. She lost weight from her condition,not drugs. It increased her appetite

 

[Jcatbird]

I don’t know about kitty gallbladder trouble but I have had the surgery myself. It went easily and well and the nausea stopped. Since you trust your previous vet, could you send them the records and ask for an opinion? If in doubt, I always trust my instincts and go for more information before a major decision.