Seeking Help. I don't know what is wrong with my cat and neither does my vet.

[Rj23591]

Preface:
One of my male cats, Lou, who is 3 years old and 15 lbs started having "episodes" beginning in December. They began the day after I gave him animal CBD oil for the first time. He ended up being given the CBD oil two times in total at a single dose each time. Once in late December and one more dose two days later, this was before we realized the CBD may be causing the problem. I bring this up because my primary vet and the animal hospital we brought him to said that there is not enough evidence to show CBD oil could impact him in this way, but the timing is very odd since he has never had anything like this prior to having the CBD oil.

Explanation of "episodes":
These "episodes are somewhat hard to describe, but I will do my best to explain and will attach a video of a full episode. (Episodes are not exactly always the same but follow a general likeness)

They seems to begin randomly, he will start to look at his back like he has in itch. He will start reaching for it as if to lick his back, but his face never makes contact with his back, he just started to spin slowly in circles. This or something similar is the beginning to most of the episodes.
As they worsen the following problems begin to happen:
-His legs give out/cant hold his own weight
-Loss of motor control. He fumbles and falls
-He will pull his front paws to his chest and curl them in. (Almost seems like as if a muscle was being forced to contract)
-His tail will sometimes curl into a circle very tightly and I don't think he is able to move it from that position until the episode is over.
-During these episodes he his lucid. We are able to get and maintain his attention through most of it. (So I don't think it is any type of seizure. At first I thought it may be a partial seizure)
-After the episodes he seems exhausted. He will lay somewhere he feels safe, usually in a small confined area for a while. While laying there he will wag his tail for quite a long time.
-It is hard to tell if he is in pain, or how much pain he is in, during these episodes. He is not a very vocal cat and during these episodes he does not make any noise.

Frequency:
These episodes began at the end of December, and at first were happening 1-3 times a week that we saw. They have continued to happen 2-5 times per week that we see for the last 3 months.

We took him to an animal hospital at first. They simply did a physical and stated that without seeing the episode happen they couldnt do much else. They requested we record a video of an episode and send it to them. We got footage of it, sent it to them and they stated that they thought it could be neurological, but not much else.

Then we took him to our primary vet where they did another physical, stool sample, and blood work. They found nothing as well, and from the videos they couldn't conclude much either.

They said the next step would be to go to a neurologist. But after spending about $1,000 on his medical bills so far I cannot afford to take him to one. I am hoping someone here has possibly experienced one of their cats having the same issue and can provide some help.

We set up cameras around the house to try to get better videos of the episodes. I am going to link the latest episode at the bottom of the post. I have more videos if anyone needs, but this latest one is probably the clearest footage we have of an episode so far.

Video:

 

[VAMama]

I'm not a vet, so this is my personal opinion...

That looks a lot like a muscle spasm in his back left leg. He feels the spasm come on, and he tries to lick his back leg, and he he loses control as the spasms ripple.

Why did you give him CBD in the first place?

 

[Rj23591]

Hey VAMama. To keep a long story short, we rescued him starving from under a house at 4 weeks old. Since a kitten he has been very anxious and afraid of everything. He attempts to get into just about everything and attempts to eat everything. Especially my girlfriend's hair off the floor. Which makes him get sick. Our vet indicated this behavior also might be due to his anxiety. After some reading online we decided to try out CBD oil for cats in order to help calm him down.

Also the spasms do look like a problem with his legs, but he also will curl in his front legs/paws to his chest as well while it is happening. So we are not really sure if it is only his legs.

There was one instance that was before we had the cameras set up and my girlfriend explained to me second hand. He started an episode and fell off the couch, directly on his back. Immediately all four of his legs pointed in the air and started shaking. I did not see this first hand, but she says it was by far the worst episode she had seen. It was a full body lockup/spasm.

Thank you for the response.

 

[VAMama]

Yeah in that video it started in his back left leg and then spread. He spun as he tried to lick/comfort the spot.

My kitty had a bad reaction to CBD. Nothing like that, but it made her spaced out.

Have you thought about giving him daily massages to release tension in his leg muscles?

 

[Rj23591]

I have done a bit of helping him stretch out his arms and legs. Although, since I may be mistaken in the actual issue, I did not want to do anything that could hurt him. If he has something physically wrong I would hate to do something to make it worse.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. This is hard to watch. Must be terrible for you and terrifying for your cat.

You need a neurologist ASAP. I know you said you don’t have the money. I understand that. See if your primary vet will post the video to VIN ( veterinary information network) they may get some advice there.

Other things to consider is Cryptococcus which is a fungal infection that can enter the brain. There is a blood test for it, but it is expensive and hour money may be better spent elsewhere.

This definitely looks like a seizure type of episode. Definitely looks neurological in Mayer and you have to consider other things such as a brain injury or, I don’t want to say it, tumor.

Also needing to consider viral in nature such as FIP.

Then there is idiopathic epilepsy also to consider.

This is where a seasoned experienced neurologist may be of help in determining what is going on. They would probably recommend an MRI, which is outrageous in price, but you can explain the money situation and often they will give you their personal opinion of what is going on.

Have you used any flea products on your cat?
Is there anything he could get into?
Is anyone in the house on any medications including topicals?
Is any form of insecticide used anywhere in your house?
Other than the CBD oil, has anything changed in the house?
Have you come home to find anything indicating something may have fallen on your cat?

 

[fionasmom]

Poor Lou! CBD can affect cats negatively, but the affects should wear off, even severe one which might require a trip to the ER. You are three months out from having given it. It may be coincidental to the CBD oil, so it appears to be a side effect.

I am not a vet, but I agree that it is neurological which is not a great deal of help since you have already been told that. These conditions are hard to pinpoint, which is why your vet did not make a guess. To me, these episodes look like seizures. If they are, as they continue in frequency, the brain becomes accustomed to them and they intensify. Keep in mind that I am not diagnosing your cat, but offering mostly a warning that if these are seizures they are serious.

If these are seizures and he reaches what is called status epilepticus, it is a very big emergency and necessary that you get him to an ER right away.

Seizures and Epilepsy in Cats | VCA Animal Hospital | VCA Animal Hospitals

but you can explain the money situation and often they will give you their personal opinion of what is going on.

I was going to mention this. A consultation does not mean that you have to go forward with treatment but you may get some valuable information and a plan that might be more affordable. A neurologist will also know what can or cannot be treated based upon being shown a video. An intuitive one with a lot of experience might be able to help you.

 

[Rj23591]

Have you used any flea products on your cat?
-No not since he was 4-6 weeks old. So a few years ago.
Is there anything he could get into?
-No, He does try to get into a lot of things, more so than any other animal I have had, and I did foster care/rehab work. So he is only out when we are home to supervise and when he cannot be supervised he has his own room in the house that is *baby proofed*.
Is anyone in the house on any medications including topicals?
-No
Is any form of insecticide used anywhere in your house?
-No
Other than the CBD oil, has anything changed in the house?
-No. After the episodes began our primary vet recommended getting diffusers to help his anxiety. We have two in the house now. But this was implemented about a month after the first episode started.
Have you come home to find anything indicating something may have fallen on your cat?
-No, nothing seems that it would have fallen on him. He has sometimes gotten scared by a noise or something else and attempted to run away and ran into a wall or table. But it has never seemed that he hit anything particularly hard. So I do not think he injured himself, but I could be wrong.

 

[Rj23591]

Hey, Fionasmom.

Thank you for the information. I would like to see how much more information can be provided by the forum members. But a consultation will be a good starting point if nothing concrete comes from this post.


Something I just thought to mention since you mentioned epilepsy. Lou does get distracted by lights, like most cats do. But he is intently drawn in from shadows. For example, I will sit on the couch, with my arm rested on the edge, and it puts a shadow of my hand on the wall. He will stop whatever he is doing and stare at the shadow and meow at it almost like when my other cat watches a bird. He will do this more intensely than most cats when they are playing with a red laser toy. This is not super unusual but I thought I should mention that he does have an odd behavior with lights/shadows.

 

[Antonio65]

Then there is idiopathic epilepsy also to consider.

I agree with this!
This is what I'd look into, given my experience with my cat and her weird behavior on a few occasions.

 

[Alldara]

I was also going to suggest it might be a seizure disorder. It could be worth looking into as it's often treatable, depending on the cause of seizure.

Does it happen at a certain time or day? Or perhaps when he's in a certain mood such excited?

One other thing I'd also be concerned of would be high blood pressure or blood clots.

Unfortunately, you're really likely to need more testing for your cat. There's so many things that cause seizures and until you identify the cause, you won't be able to get treatment to stop them.

I've had dogs with seizures before and they had to have a scan. My dog was put on hydrolyzed food as an allergy was exasperating his seizures. His was not solvable with medication and he lived to be 12. His littermates had the same congenital issue. Removing the allergen lowered the seizures to once a month or longer in-between. It was an issue with his bone so we also had to stop him from play with other dogs.
My wife's dog had brain damage from former abusive home. He also had a scan and was not given medicine.
Our friend's dog was given chemotherapy for a tumor and they were told to keep excitement to a minimum. They also had scans.

No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat's Life - TheCatSite

 

[Rj23591]

Hey Alldara.

No it doesn't happen at any specific time. Also not in any specific circumstance. It can be at any time of day or night, during playing or sleeping, nothing that really seems to set it off.

 

[Alldara]

I want to revisit the CBD then. My limited understanding is that all CBD oil contains trace amounts of THC. Many labels even list the .01% or whatnot.

Then we can also consider that even though the label says .01% that not each individual batch is tested.
- Manufacturing error
- Production error
- Poor quality control
All errors that could cause the THC in the vial you have to be higher than the label. Where I live, labels in food are allowed to be off 5% in either direction. Unsure how much marijuana labels margin of error is allowed to be. But we can tell food gets outside of that frequently as there are recalls for food that don't have to do with bacterias.


Then we move to THC toxicity in pets: Cannabis (Marijuana) Intoxication in Cats and Dogs | VCA | VCA Animal Hospitals. So the amount they can have is very individualistic. What might hurt one pet of a same size is fine in another. We see this in people too (I have a cousin who has a major adverse reaction to a few puffs).


THC intoxication can cause seizures in pets. It is both easily stored in the body as well as processed by the liver and kidneys. Could his body have stored some? Maybe.

I couldn't find anything to know if it can cause permanent damage to either the liver or kidney. But if it was too much work on either of them, it's a possibility. Your vet did bloodwork. Did you have a baseline bloodwork to look at the numbers and compare?


All that to say, yes it makes sense that they don't know if there was enough evidence to prove the CBD caused this, as they would need to run tests. As you can see from everyone's comments, there are dozens of reasons why pets develop seizures. So the vets need evidence of what is and isn't to state a cause.

Not medical advice but what I would do with my cats. Without a cause, since you can't afford further tests at this time, I would find out the following:

- is you vet willing to try anti-seizure meds without knowing the cause? If not, why?

- how much is the neurologist and what tests do they want to run? (Quote from their office)

- can any of those tests be done at your current vet and sent over to them? If yes, which and a quote from your vet to see if you can save some cost.

Then, if the vet says yes to #1 and it works, good. The seizures may return though. Otherwise you can start saving or fund raising for the other tests.

 

[makomama]

All I could say in my head that whole video was "poor kitty!" I'm so sorry that both you and your cat are going rheough this.
I work as a vet tech, so I am not a vet, so please do not take this as a diagnosis at all. In my clinic, we had a dog that had come in doing fairly similar behaviors- spinning, leg stiffening, head turn, difficulty walking- they ended up having the dog in for a CT, which we do at my clinic, and there turned out to be a tumor. Unfortunately, the dog did not live much longer after that.
It is odd that the episodes seem to have started after that first dose of CBD oil, but this seems much more neuologic. The spinning and leg movements really drive that for me.
Some things to consider:
-Applying for Care Credit to enable you to pay those bigger bills in smaller amounts spread out.
-setting up a go-fund-me to help with expenses
-Xrays to get a better look at structure in legs/neck, could possibly reveal pinched nerve/spinal disk/unknown leg injury that could be spiking these episodes
-cat accupunture or message therapy to help release possible tension/build up in muscles

I do hope you are able to at least find some answers or a care plan to give him comfort. Praying for your fur family!

 

[Rj23591]

Hey Alldera. The vet did do blood work and a stool sample. Looking back though, it is odd, they did not give us a copy of the bloodwork. I emailed them today asking for a copy of that.

Also, I am reaching out to get some pricing for more tests and that is a really good tip to see if my vet can do the procedures at a lower cost.

 

[Rj23591]

Also it seems that his episodes are happening more often. Today he has had 3, although they are less severe ones. He had a very severe one on the 6th during the night. I am going to post that in hopes it can give more more insight for anyone who can help. We are emailing more information to our primary vet, and looking into talking to a neurologist and getting an understanding on what the costs will look like.
Here is this video of a severe episode.

 

[Rj23591]

The most recent video shows a severe episode. We have only seen something like this twice in the last 4 months. But his episodes that consist of his tail curling, having a hard time walking, trying to sniff his back and spinning in circles, is still happening regularly.

 

[Emmypeps]

My recommendation would be to open up a care credit card (gives you time to pay it back slowly) as I believe a neurologist is the best option and should be seen asap

 

[Rj23591]

Thanks Emmypeps, I am going to look into that.

 

[fionasmom]

The severity seems consistent with your earlier video and I agree that you need a neurologist. Let us know what you find out. This is not lessening or resolving itself which means that a lot of transitory conditions can probably be ruled out.