S.O.S. - Kinney has anorexia/anemia

[goholistic]

Yes, I did read the same thing about antioxidants...no good.

There is a wealth of information out there. I was hesitant to post the old document, but thought it summed up some things nicely in an easy-to-understand way (as a starting point).

But, yes, as LDG points out, some of these holistic treatments have had studies done more recently. Thanks for chiming in! 

 

 

[dan32]

Thanks GoHolistic for the provoking articles.  I followed macrobiotics for many years and agree completely with its principles of whole organic locally grown foods.  In fact, much of the medical community has slowly come around to this way of thinking years later.  For some time, I attended regular macrobiotic meetings where new members with cancer would join the group hoping for a fast non-chemo oriented solution.  It was my observation that those that used both traditional medicine (chemotherapy) along with changing to a macrobiotic lifestyle had the most successful results.  ie. by the time the big C is on your doorstep, changes to diet alone will probably not reverse the disease.

I am simultaneously trying to put my three boys on a raw diet - intitially I am trying commercial raw food to see how it goes, but I can easily imagine making my own foods for them.  The very root of macrobiotic theory is eating very wholesome, freshly prepared foods.  Interesting the talk of mushrooms - in macrobiotics the shitake mushroom is credited with many healing properties - yet where a cat would get mushrooms from in their diet escapes me. 

I could maybe be convinced to offer small supplements of fish oil.  Kinney's diet has been primarily kibble since I got him (his father was the poster cat for IAMs) so transitioning him away from it onto canned or raw foods is something that will take time.  Yet, he has taken to the raw taste faster than his housemates which is encouraging - but he still loves his kibble.  For the life of me, I am kicking myself for having continued to offer corn-based kibble to him while he would vomit it up on a very regular basis.

But I will take what you are saying with the kindness that you are intending.  In my heart, I am hoping he will respond well to the chemotherapy to get him out of the woods - then modify his diet to food I personally make to take it from there.  I just hope there is time...

I am probably rambling to myself here, but what also comes up fairly often is the link between FeLV and lymphoma in younger cats.  When I initially brought Kinney into the household four years ago, my other two cats became immediately deathly sick - deadly sick.  I almost lost both of them at that time as neither had any immune response to whatever Kinney came in with, then actually did lose them both within 10 months later.  Just to say that Kinney has been tested and re-tested for many contagious diseases over the years - always testing negative but I just have to wonder..

 

[barbb]

Dan I am just catching up on this thread (from my sister's house in Ocean City NJ I might add, so I'm nearby to y'all for a change lol). Talk about coincidences- ! Am so happy you worked out a solution for Kinney too!

Toby was on a Wisconsin protocol except he had doxorubicin in place of the adriamycin. His oncologist was a one trick pony and had no other chemos to offer, and toby took pred while on his chemo which as you know is a stunningly good med by itself---so I just want to put it out there that you ask Kinney's doc what will be a measure of the effectiveness of his chemo protocol and what if it doesn't seem to be working, can they switch therapies etc. I allowed myself to be conned by the vet into accepting that Toby wasn't getting worse and that was good enough, and that his crappy looking fur was not getting better due to the chemo. But Laurie's Lazlo got BETTER, somdon't let them keep you at water level.

Also, Toby was given cerenia pills for four days following his treatments but like your kitty, he mostly did not need it. I believe the 4th treatment may be the hardest, you might want to ask about them giving a cerenia injection for that one so you don't have to pill Kinney.

Very happy that all is going well so far !

 

[dan32]

BarbB: I figure the three chemos might each have a different effect on him.  He didn't seem to be too knocked out by the VinChristy, but I am not sure how he will react to the other two.  I see the oncologist each time I go in, so I will ask her if any of them are harder than the others.  I would certainly favor them giving the Cerenia by shot rather than me trying to get it into him myself.  It is about all I can do to get his one syringeful of chicken flavored pred into him every day.  Unless I could have the Cerenia made up into a suspension to have on hand just in case, but that would take pre-planning on my part.  I cannot imagine trying to wrestle pills into him - he isn't too bad with the suspension if I approach him slowly and just push it in.

We had a weigh-in tonight and he is up to 9.4 pounds, so he is gaining back his weight steadily.  I think after one sequence of four, they will do an ultrasound again.  I suppose at that point is their time to reevaluate if the protocol he is on is working or not.

 

[barbb]

Toby was not affected by the vincristine or cyclophosphamide either, it Was treatment #4 that was always the tough one. You can ask her what is the effect of each drug supposed to be. Towards the end of Toby's treatment my oncologist became more forthcoming and let on that some of the therapies were intended to help make the effects last longer while others delivered the punch. In Toby's case that was the Doxorubicin which worked well on him, more than the others. There is a link on one of my earlier posts that should go to diff chemo protocols in case u want to look.

 

[roxie]

Dan32
I'm glad Kinney hasn't had any bad reactions to the chemo. Good to hear that he's gaining weight. I know it had to be hard for you to do this, but we do what has to be done to save their lives. I hope he continues to do well. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.

 

[dan32]

Today was chemo #2 (Cyclophosphamide) in the long road.  As the vet tech took Kinney into the back, she said it would only be about a five minute wait - so I skipped the Dunkin Donuts routine and just sat there waiting.  Sure enough, he was out in short order for our follow-up visit with Dr. Risbon afterwards. 

I asked if the chemo was merely injected in - rather than IV dripped in (why it could be so fast) and she said yes.  Other than chemo #4 (Adriamycin) which actually is IV dripped in and takes 30 minutes.  So there is a common misconception of mine that chemo treatments are IV drips.

I told her he had a fairly easy time with the Vincristine (#1) and asked how the Cyclo (#2) might hit him.  She thought the Cyclo would be an easy one (easier than VinChristy).  She did think that the Adriamycin would possibly be harder on him and may require some Cerenia, so I asked if it could be made into a suspension that I could add to his nightly pred syringe to administer together and she said she would call it into my compounding pharmacy to have around two weeks from now.  I am wondering how I will determine if he is nauseous enough to give the Cerenia?  Or could I just ask them to give him an injection of it at the time?

He has gained 6 ounces since last week and CBC is "completely normal".  Anemia and liver inbalances in the rear view mirror.

BarbB: so yes, the last one in the sequence is the tough one.  Something else to fret about.

We came home, but this time I thought to let him loose in the bathroom, so I could easily remove the velcro band-aid which they put on the injection site - rather than trying to chase him around the house to do it.  He has had four of these now and it drives him nuts trying to bite them off once we get home.  Otherwise, he ate heartily after settling in.

So all in all, not such a bad day.

LDG: I was re-reading your Lazlo thread to see how you were feeling at the similar time (two weeks in) and you were questioning whether you were torturing him by going through chemo. Maybe torturing is too strong.   At the time, I think you used a pet psychic to alleviate your fears.  Interesting that I have been having the same thoughts - it is also something friends and family ask when I tell them what we are doing.

 

[roxie]

How is Kinney doing? I've been following this thread but haven't saw anything for a few days. I hope he's still doing okay with the chemo.

 

[dan32]

The days he gets the chemo, he eats well and is sort of peppy.  Maybe it is the euphoria of getting back home.  Then the day after the chemo he is like hung over and sleeps a lot.  I have a close friend whose cat was getting chemo for lymphoma and he often slept alot when I was over visiting - then looked kind of out of it when he got up for mealtimes, so maybe this is typical.  I encourage multiple private feedings in the basement away from the others, where he suddenly looks incredibly better and interested in lots of things.  So up and down..

 

[roxie]

I guess it's kind of like people when they have chemo. My uncle would have good and bad days. He slept a lot too. The closest thing to chemo for cats that I've dealt with was a pill. My cat Wuss, gone to rainbow bridge now, had a small cyst on the base of his ear. Vet said it was cancer and was aggressive. They cut it out and a large area around it. It looked like there was no way a cancer cell could still be there. It came back 3 months later. This time they basically removed his face and sewed it back on. He wanted to cut as deep as possible. He looked so pitiful. They called him Frankenkitty. Another 3 or 4 months passed and it was back. This time they removed the ear. I'll always wonder if He would still be here if I had told them to remove the ear the first surgery. That bought him six more months, one last Christmas. When it came back the vet gave me some pills that he said were the equivalent of chemo in humans. I had to wear gloves to give them to him. I didn't keep him on them long. The cancer had moved into his eye and the pills didn't seem to be helping. When he got to where he couldn't eat I knew it was time. He would try, but couldn't swallow. It had moved into his throat. The nurses or techs at the vet were all about to cry the day I brought him in for the last time. They had gotten attached to him. I'm glad Kinney's doing okay. How many more treatments does he have to get? I'm sure it's taking its toll on you. Especially trying to swap to the raw diet too.

 

[roxie]

I got the pathology report out on Wuss. I couldn't remember what his cancer was called. He had carcinoma ceruminous. It also said something about ceruminous epithelium. It said other stuff that I can't even begin to pronounce! The vet said he had a 50/50 shot so I had to try.

 

[dan32]

What a sad story with your cat Wuss.  And something so visible.  I'm so sorry you had to suffer along with him.

This is sort of a first for me - my first cat had a breast tumor that was removed only (no chemo 30 yrs. ago), she lived a very long life.  Also, one episode with skin cancer on another cat which was removed and did not reoccur.  No cancer in my family to guide or assist me except for my brother's dog with lymphoma who lived on for years on a homemade raw diet - or - my close friend's cat with lymphoma who she nursed along until age 22 (started when he was 8).  I have had incredibly good luck with my cats who all lived well into their senior years.  Has my luck run out or is this just a bump in the road?  I'm going on his young age being in his favor.

Initially, you commit to 4 sessions - then an ultrasound to re-evaluate the progress.  Actually Kinney has done pretty well on just the prednisone alone, but when I asked if I could just taper him off of it, they say oh no you can't do that.  I think there are more than a few cats on this forum being strung along on prednisone with no definate dx. If he was an old senior, I would probably just do that.

 

[roxie]

I think it's just a bump in the road. His young age is in his favor. Plus he seems to be doing well with the chemo. I'm really down tonight. Bubba is burning up with a fever again. His gums, nose and paw pads are white again. Why is this happening again? I feel like I'm going in circles. Just when I think it's over it comes back. I guess you've felt that way too with the ups and downs with Kinney.

 

[roxie]

What did you feed Kinney when he had anemia? Did he take any vitamins or iron? I'm getting desperate. Bubba has diarrhea now. He can't take that. I can't take him to the vet yet because my husband didn't pay the bill from the last time. They were nice enough to let us charge it. I'm scared to death I'm going to lose him. I'm going to call the vet that I usually see tomorrow and see if she will let me get some doxycycline. That's what he should have been treated with. She wasn't available when I took him the last time. He was lifeless so I didn't have a choice. I tried scrambled eggs today. He took one bite and that was it. I'm going to get liver tomorrow and try that. I'm giving him pedialyte twice a day. I don't even know how much of that I'm supposed to give him or how often. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I hope Kinney is still doing well. This may not be where I'm supposed to post this but I didn't know anywhere else to put it.

 

[franksmom]

What did you feed Kinney when he had anemia? Did he take any vitamins or iron? I'm getting desperate. Bubba has diarrhea now. He can't take that. I can't take him to the vet yet because my husband didn't pay the bill from the last time. They were nice enough to let us charge it. I'm scared to death I'm going to lose him. I'm going to call the vet that I usually see tomorrow and see if she will let me get some doxycycline. That's what he should have been treated with. She wasn't available when I took him the last time. He was lifeless so I didn't have a choice. I tried scrambled eggs today. He took one bite and that was it. I'm going to get liver tomorrow and try that. I'm giving him pedialyte twice a day. I don't even know how much of that I'm supposed to give him or how often. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I hope Kinney is still doing well. This may not be where I'm supposed to post this but I didn't know anywhere else to put it.

Hi roxie, 

Here is a great thread on how to syringe feed 
(http://www.thecatsite.com/t/227858/syringe-feeding-lucky-video-if-your-cat-is-not-eating)

 

[nekochan]

Do you know what type of anemia it is? When my dog was anemic my vet recommended feeding liver (have to be careful though because it's high in vitamin A) and giving B12 injections, but her anemia was caused by bleeding due to hemangiosarcoma. We also did fluids for support.

 

[roxie]

Hi roxie, 

Here is a great thread on how to syringe feed 

(http://www.thecatsite.com/t/227858/syringe-feeding-lucky-video-if-your-cat-is-not-eating)

Thank you. I need to get some of that Science Diet AD. They gave me that for my cat Oreo a few days before he died with lymphoma. And a huge syringe! Bubba gas FIA. He's eating a little, but not enough. I know Dan32 has experience with his cat Kinney being anemic. His was caused by something else. I've got two threads. One says New and need advice. The other is Bubba has had a relapse. Probably should have stuck to the same one. Thanks again.

 

[roxie]

Do you know what type of anemia it is? When my dog was anemic my vet recommended feeding liver (have to be careful though because it's high in vitamin A) and giving B12 injections, but her anemia was caused by bleeding due to hemangiosarcoma. We also did fluids for support.

It's caused by the FIA. Feline infectious anemia. Causes his body to attack his red blood cells because of the parasite. He's already been hospitalized once just a few weeks ago. I'm going to buy some liver tomorrow and try that. Thank you for the information.

 

[franksmom]

Thank you. I need to get some of that Science Diet AD. They gave me that for my cat Oreo a few days before he died with lymphoma. And a huge syringe! Bubba gas FIA. He's eating a little, but not enough. I know Dan32 has experience with his cat Kinney being anemic. His was caused by something else. I've got two threads. One says New and need advice. The other is Bubba has had a relapse. Probably should have stuck to the same one. Thanks again.

You can also use any canned food if you blend it with water so it is liquid enough for the syringe. Good luck!

 

[roxie]

You can also use any canned food if you blend it with water so it is liquid enough for the syringe. Good luck!

I'll try that. Thanks!