Rosie is still not well after getting dehydrated last week

[profcat]

I posted about our beloved Rosie last week. She's 15 and a half and has been in excellent health, other than some arthritis in her back legs. The last few months her thyroid levels were creeping up and she was losing weight and muscle mass, so we have her on medication and her thyroid levels have been perfect. Up until 10 days or so ago she was running around, knocking stuff down asking for food. Totally her spunky self.

Then, last Friday we noticed she wasn't getting up to eat and seemed really out of it. And she wasn't walking steady. We thought it could be her arthritis pain, but didn't want to mess around if it was a heart attack or stroke or something. So we took her to the vet, but our regular vet wasn't there. The vet we used loves cats and we know he's great, but they were busy and we dropped her off and didn't get to ask a lot of questions. It was definitely not her heart, just that she was very dehydrated. She spent the night to get fluids and came home Saturday. Blood work was fine save for levels that are usually high when a cat is dehydrated, and the very beginning of the onset of kidney disease.

We brought her home and focused on giving her food with water and fluids. In a couple days she definitely seems perkier-- more alert, following me around in the morning for food like usual. She eats most of whatever food we put in front of her. She's getting in and out of the litter box fine. No vomiting or anything. BUT she is NOT herself. I'd say she's like 60% there-- she seems sort of out of it and still a bit unstable on her feet. She has a hard time getting up on the couch etc. At first the vet said it could be her arthritis pain but wanted to hold off on treating her for pain until she's out of the woods from the dehydration episode.

But now we're worried it's something worse. Her eyes are always dilated and if I shine a light into them they don't really constrict a lot. And we noticed there's a slight bulge of bone over one of her eyes. Not so much that you really see it, but you can feel it's uneven. I'm not sure if it's normal and just that bc she's lost weight and fat we can feel her bones more than we could before. But then I googled osteosarcoma and read about bone tumors in the skull can cause neurological issues and unsteadiness. Ugh!!

We have a visit scheduled with our regular vet for Monday morning but we're so worried! Vet tech told me to stop googling. She was so vibrant just a couple weeks ago and now just doesn't seem like herself at all.

 

[denice]

I would definitely second the tech's advice about googling. Dr. Google can lead you down all kinds of paths. Given her age and dehydration I think the kidney disease is probably further progressed then the results first indicated. I have a 17 year old cat in the early stages of CKD which is very common in geriatric cats. It has been controlled for 2 1/2 years now with prescription food. A lot of people will say a lot of negative things about prescription foods but it has worked wonders for Alice. It is on the pricey side. Wait until Monday. The vet will probably do complete labs which will give a clearer pictures since she isn't dehydrated and then on fluids overnight like she was the last time.

 

[profcat]

I would definitely second the tech's advice about googling. Dr. Google can lead you down all kinds of paths. Given her age and dehydration I think the kidney disease is probably further progressed then the results first indicated. I have a 17 year old cat in the early stages of CKD which is very common in geriatric cats. It has been controlled for 2 1/2 years now with prescription food. A lot of people will say a lot of negative things about prescription foods but it has worked wonders for Alice. It is on the pricey side. Wait until Monday. The vet will probably do complete labs which will give a clearer pictures since she isn't dehydrated and then on fluids overnight like she was the last time.

We would be ok if it was CKD. We've actually reversed it in one of our cats (although he's only 11) by giving regular fluids and prescription food. We can do it for her, too. You're right they'll probably do full bloods Monday. And I'll stop googling! THANKS!

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi profcat !

First, I have not followed your earlier posts about Rosie, so I simply don't know anything about 'things' prior to this thread's reportage.

A couple of things......the 'spaceyness', the 'out-of-it' presentation......my 'gut' says that these are Hyperthyroidism symptoms. Yes, I read that she's on medication for that - I also know that levels can fluctuate and re-testing is needed periodically and if symptoms show up.

The dilated eyes may be a symptom of hypertension, high blood pressure. Has that ever been checked? HBP can also come from uncontrolled hyperthyroidism.

I hope it's your preferred Vet who sees her Monday.

A few 'offerings' for you:

• Instead of 'Googling', I'd suggest you use 'Tanya's CKD site' for finding out about new/strange/odd behaviours you observe. Helen (the 'Tanya" author) has a whole section on "Symptoms" in a simple alphabetical format. Under each symptom, there are 2 columns of links: in the left column is a list of possible causes (that link to a expanded description) and, directly opposite in the right column there's a link to more info and possible treatments. Here's that section: Alpha Index of Symptoms and Treatments. [while 'Tanya's' site is primarily kidney-focused, the information is common to all felines]
• Try that now. Go to the "D's" and about halfway down you'll see "Dilated Pupils". Under that, on the left side you'll see a link for "Hypertension"....click that for a condensed explanation of how what you are observing relates to hypertension; then, go back to the list and click on the right side link "All About Hypertension" - that's a full section, a comprehensive coverage about hypertension. (you may need to scroll to the top of that page) That Index is a true treasure trove of reliable, trustworthy info that's presented in plain language - priceless, IMO.

If I were you, I'd insist that her blood pressure be tested Monday. If you want to know more about that and watch some video of how it should happen, go here: How to Measure Blood Pressure.

Hope something there helps.
.

 

[profcat]

.
Hi profcat !

First, I have not followed your earlier posts about Rosie, so I simply don't know anything about 'things' prior to this thread's reportage.

A couple of things......the 'spaceyness', the 'out-of-it' presentation......my 'gut' says that these are Hyperthyroidism symptoms. Yes, I read that she's on medication for that - I also know that levels can fluctuate and re-testing is needed periodically and if symptoms show up.

The dilated eyes may be a symptom of hypertension, high blood pressure. Has that ever been checked? HBP can also come from uncontrolled hyperthyroidism.

I hope it's your preferred Vet who sees her Monday.

A few 'offerings' for you:

• Instead of 'Googling', I'd suggest you use 'Tanya's CKD site' for finding out about new/strange/odd behaviours you observe. Helen (the 'Tanya" author) has a whole section on "Symptoms" in a simple alphabetical format. Under each symptom, there are 2 columns of links: in the left column is a list of possible causes (that link to a expanded description) and, directly opposite in the right column there's a link to more info and possible treatments. Here's that section: Alpha Index of Symptoms and Treatments. [while 'Tanya's' site is primarily kidney-focused, the information is common to all felines]
• Try that now. Go to the "D's" and about halfway down you'll see "Dilated Pupils". Under that, on the left side you'll see a link for "Hypertension"....click that for a condensed explanation of how what you are observing relates to hypertension; then, go back to the list and click on the right side link "All About Hypertension" - that's a full section, a comprehensive coverage about hypertension. (you may need to scroll to the top of that page) That Index is a true treasure trove of reliable, trustworthy info that's presented in plain language - priceless, IMO.

If I were you, I'd insist that her blood pressure be tested Monday. If you want to know more about that and watch some video of how it should happen, go here: How to Measure Blood Pressure.

Hope something there helps.
.

Thanks for this info! We did have her thyroid level checked 4 weeks ago, AND checked last week when she had the episode. The number was perfect (3.3). I did think about it possibly being hypertension making her eyes dilated. And her kidneys could be worse bc now the thyroid is under control. I'll make sure they'll do a BP on Monday. We are seeing our regular vet and she knows Rosie and is very thorough.

 

[denice]

Now that Alice is a senior and in the earlier stages of CKD she gets checked by the vet every six months. Part of her checkup does now include checking her blood pressure along with blood work.

 

[profcat]

Now that Alice is a senior and in the earlier stages of CKD she gets checked by the vet every six months. Part of her checkup does now include checking her blood pressure along with blood work.

Oh, yes, we have 4 senior cats now and they all get seen every 6 months like clockwork. She just had her 6 month in July and she's had her thyroid tested more often this year. Will definitely get BP done on Monday.

We've had Rosie since she was a tiny kitten and we're just very attached to her. It's hard to imagine life without her, and hard to not know what she's going through. But she's sleeping peacefully on the couch now, and she's eating well and not vomiting, so that's something!

 

[profcat]

She's still eating well but could she suddenly be blind? She's not "seeing" me-- like usually she watches me walk around and do things. Now when she walks around she bumps into things very slightly. Maybe it's her arthritis/back legs being unsteady that's making her look that way, but I swear my poor baby can't see.

I just checked a photo of her I took Tuesday. Her eyes were not dilated. Now they are. She was starting to feel better, but seems worse the past couple days. What could've happened? A seizure?

I can't wait to have our vet see her tomorrow but I also dread it. It can't be good news.

 

[white shadow]

.
profcat - I gave you a suggestion yesterday to use the Tanya Symptom list instead of Google. Then, I suggested you use that for the symptom "Dilated Pupils".

Had you tried that out, you would have been taken here:

Blindness, Particularly Sudden Blindness (Retinal Detachment)​

Unfortunately this is a relatively common occurrence in cats with untreated hypertension. The hypertension causes the retinas to detach, so the cat becomes blind.​

​

You may notice a change in your cat's eyes, such as dilated pupils or uneven pupils (uneven pupils are known as anisocoria). You can also try checking for a menace response: stand behind your cat if possible, cover one of his/her eyes, then move your hand towards your cat's face and see if s/he reacts (a positive menace response) or not (a negative menace response). Switch eyes and do it again, because your cat might only be blind in one eye. Another option is to get your cat's attention, then drop a cotton wool ball and see if the cat follows the ball with his/her eyes.​

​

Even if your cat's retinas detach because of high blood pressure, if treatment is started quickly enough, there is a chance of the retinas re-attaching and your cat regaining some sight.​

http://felinecrf.org/hypertension.htm#blindness​

Are you able to take her to an emergency clinic? If it's high blood pressure at play, this is life-threatening.

If her blood pressure is raised...........there is immediate treatment available:

Amlodipine and Blindness​

If your cat has blood pressure over 180 mmHg and has suddenly lost his/her vision, s/he may need to be hospitalised. See Emergency Treatment for more information.​

​

If your cat is blind because of hypertension, there is an approximately 50:50 chance of the retinas re-attaching and your cat regaining some sight if treatment with amlodipine is started quickly enough (usually within three days of detachment). Strangely, I have never seen this major advantage of amlodipine mentioned in the veterinary literature, but Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine says "We can treat a cat’s high blood pressure with a drug called amlodipine, which may allow a retina to reattach itself, and the cat can get some of its vision back." Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook says "some vision may be restored in about 50% of cases of blindness secondary to hypertension."​

http://felinecrf.org/hypertension.htm#amlodipine_blindness​

If I were in your shoes and, if I had the resources, I would take her immediately to an emergency clinic.

Some of us are very reluctant to put treatment ideas to Veterinarians.........if I am paying for their service, I will have no hesitation to insist that certain things be done. Make sure you have the links in this post with or available to you if you take her in.

And, keep us posted !
.

 

[profcat]

.
profcat - I gave you a suggestion yesterday to use the Tanya Symptom list instead of Google. Then, I suggested you use that for the symptom "Dilated Pupils".

Had you tried that out, you would have been taken here:

Blindness, Particularly Sudden Blindness (Retinal Detachment)​

Unfortunately this is a relatively common occurrence in cats with untreated hypertension. The hypertension causes the retinas to detach, so the cat becomes blind.​

​

You may notice a change in your cat's eyes, such as dilated pupils or uneven pupils (uneven pupils are known as anisocoria). You can also try checking for a menace response: stand behind your cat if possible, cover one of his/her eyes, then move your hand towards your cat's face and see if s/he reacts (a positive menace response) or not (a negative menace response). Switch eyes and do it again, because your cat might only be blind in one eye. Another option is to get your cat's attention, then drop a cotton wool ball and see if the cat follows the ball with his/her eyes.​

​

Even if your cat's retinas detach because of high blood pressure, if treatment is started quickly enough, there is a chance of the retinas re-attaching and your cat regaining some sight.​

http://felinecrf.org/hypertension.htm#blindness​

Are you able to take her to an emergency clinic? If it's high blood pressure at play, this is life-threatening.

If her blood pressure is raised...........there is immediate treatment available:

Amlodipine and Blindness​

If your cat has blood pressure over 180 mmHg and has suddenly lost his/her vision, s/he may need to be hospitalised. See Emergency Treatment for more information.​

​

If your cat is blind because of hypertension, there is an approximately 50:50 chance of the retinas re-attaching and your cat regaining some sight if treatment with amlodipine is started quickly enough (usually within three days of detachment). Strangely, I have never seen this major advantage of amlodipine mentioned in the veterinary literature, but Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine says "We can treat a cat’s high blood pressure with a drug called amlodipine, which may allow a retina to reattach itself, and the cat can get some of its vision back." Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook says "some vision may be restored in about 50% of cases of blindness secondary to hypertension."​

http://felinecrf.org/hypertension.htm#amlodipine_blindness​

If I were in your shoes and, if I had the resources, I would take her immediately to an emergency clinic.

Some of us are very reluctant to put treatment ideas to Veterinarians.........if I am paying for their service, I will have no hesitation to insist that certain things be done. Make sure you have the links in this post with or available to you if you take her in.

And, keep us posted !
.

Yes, I saw that in the link you sent. I texted our vet tech and she got in touch with our vet and they recommended a tiny dose of amlodipine. I take it myself for hypertension, so I just cut the pill very small. She's going to the vet first thing in the morning.

She's eating great today but is clearly a little disoriented getting in and out of the litter box. We're just staying close by.

 

[profcat]

Re: Emergency vet: It's not that we don't have the resources. We've had bad experiences with the one closest to us, and they are doing drop offs only, so we would not get to be with her. It's just better for her to see our regular vet and wonderful vet techs who know her. If she suddenly acts weird or is in some kind of crisis, we'll be at the ER vet in 10 minutes tops.

 

[profcat]

UPDATE:

I just brought Rosie home from the vet. She did not have any kind of hypertensive crisis-- the vet said she would've had a bad headache and likely would've been nauseated and not eating if that happened. And breathing hard/in distress. Her BP was fine today. Her thyroid was under control last week so she doesn't see the need to repeat blood work so soon. And no sign of a stroke or seizure-- her eye's would've looked different. And she said her kidney values were just slightly raised a week ago, and she did not think that was the problem.

She thinks she either (1) had a fall or (2) has a brain tumor. Right now she's going with a fall because of how sudden this happened, and because she has terrible arthritis in her back legs and has been unsteady on her feet, especially on soft furniture. I took a photo of her Thursday and her eyes were normal. Then, Saturday morning, she was very disoriented and her pupils were dilated. I also found couch cushions on the floor Saturday morning, but didn't think much of it because our 2 male cats rough-house sometimes. Our guess is she must've fallen off the sofa and hit her head. So the vet gave her a steroid shot, and gave us steroid pills to give her, and some eye drops. If it's an injury her sight will get better. She said it's about 75% gone right now so she has some vision. If it's a brain tumor, it won't get better and she might start having some seizures. We really hope it's not that!

But for now she's eating great (gained 0.2 pounds!) and is happy hanging out with us. We'll keep doing fluids for the kidneys and to keep up her hydration. She is getting around ok-- walking to the water fountain and litter boxes.

Thanks for the support everyone! Here's a photo of our girl from this morning: