Raw vomiting :(

[scotfold]

my kitten finally finished his 2nd bag of dry food - I was feeding him Advance Diet & Hills Kitten dry food and to me they smell awful, and since I have to leave it out, it stinks up the whole apartment + I find him getting tubby with the free feeding.
He eats anything so he's quite easy to feed.

After his first bag, i tried to get him to eat raw chicken, which he ate, but would always throw up anything that isn't pure white meat.

He seems to really love liver but his stomach wont take it. I tried to give him tinyyyyy amounts but it always comes back out.

He also swallowed and threw up a wing tip without chewing it properly.. he just seemed to get lazier to chew the bones each time -_-

Currently feeding him wet food, but in Australia, its just too expensive.. (cost about $4-5 p/d)

Any advice what I can do.

 

[Willowy]

I'm pretty sure there are a few different brands of pre-made raw foods available there. Give one of those a try---with the organs and stuff mixed in it might be easier on his tummy than straight liver. Once he gets accustomed to digesting raw you can transition to prey model.

 

[carolina]

I'm pretty sure there are a few different brands of pre-made raw foods available there. Give one of those a try---with the organs and stuff mixed in it might be easier on his tummy than straight liver. Once he gets accustomed to digesting raw you can transition to prey model.

Just adding to what Willowy said, transition him very slowly from canned to raw. Put him on all canned first, then start mixing a tiny bit of the raw into the canned food. Increase that amount every day until all you have is raw, and no canned. Same process you would do to transition kibbles....
Good luck with your little one!

 

[tammyp]

Hi Willowy - if you know of the brands of raw available in Australia, I'd love to know.  So far I've not been able to find anything that is acceptable, and it would be excellent info that I would love to forward on...

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Just want to add that giving him Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes along with the Raw might help him to adjust easier.  Especially the Digestive Enzymes.  Here is what I use:

Probiotics:    (I just open up one capsule and sprinkle it in their food)

Digestive Enzyme: 
As far as raw sources in Australia, I managed to find this http://www.aussiermb.org.au/forums/, however, found it on a dog site...don't know if it will help you or not, as I don't know if it will address commercial prepared foods, or simply sources for raw meats.  You could check it out though!

Just found this company...they are in Australia and DO prepare complete raw meals!  For both dogs and cats.  http://www.completepet.com.au/

 

[scotfold]

Just took a look at completepet and they have vegetables in their loaf :O?
I thought cats weren't suppose to eat veggies. Also theres some canned vegan cat food haha

Just read http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Before_you_dive_in....

thats some dedication there!! I wish someone can just make alot and sell me some!

 

[ldg]

Many commercially prepared cat foods do have veggies. A lot of people do try to avoid them. When I was transitioning the cats, I used foods that limited the non-meat/bones/organs thing to 5% of the total formula.

 

[my-boy-jasper]

Living in Australia too. I have spent hours, if not days, trawling through the internet to find a pre-made raw that doesn't have veggies etc. I haven't found anything yet. I am feeding Jasper a pre-made BARF product called Big Dog for Cats. But I'm not happy with the ingredients. However, he loves it and won't touch canned food. I'm not ready to make the transition to homemade raw yet. I would LOVE to know if anyone has found a good Australian pre-made raw. I'd probably even be happy with a complete supplement to add to raw meat but haven't found that either.

I asked my vet about mixing canned and raw together in the one meal. He advised against it because of the different digestion rates. I thought that was just for dry and raw/wet. I must admit though, I am occasionally mixing some canned with his raw just because I want to get rid of the cans I bought which he will never eat.

Sorry, don't have any good advice for the OP. Have you tried mixing a tiny bit of chopped liver with some minced chicken? Maybe 'diluting' the liver like that might help him hold it down.

 

[tammyp]

Yup, that pretty much sums up my trawling the net and correspondence with pet food makers in Australia - havent found any that are not basing their diet on a dog diet, hence the inclusion of fruits and veges, and my pet hate - garlic.  This is toxic for cats (and dogs too I believe).  None of the manufacturers have ever written back to me to tell me why they include garlic. Complete pet says small amounts are ok - research? build up? why take the risk? I also don't like this particular recipe at complete pet as it contains honey.  I'm not a feline nutritionist, but the little dental I know for humans is we don't want a lot of sugar in the mouth for the sake of our teeth...cats can't taste sweet, cats have teeth...whats it in there for other than the human idea of its antiseptic properties - for humans, and only particular grades of honey (bet they don't even use the right one!).  I am happy though that these guys use organic meats and no preservatives - they are maybe the best I've seen.  

 So, sorry, rant over.  I'm with Scotfold...Australia needs a cat person to make raw cat food!

Oh, and sincere thanks Mrsgreenjeens.   It sounds like I didn't appreciate your link, but I truely did.  I want all the info I can get on sources in Australia...one might just turn out to be a gem!  And also LDG for suggesting an under 5% amount might be ok...(for a short time?)

 

[ritz]

Congratulations on at least trying to feed raw.

You can definitely mix canned (wet) food with raw / commercial raw food.  What you can't/shouldn't do is mix dry food (kibble) with wet or raw food because of differing digestive rates.

If you have access to baby food that contains only meat + water, that is also a good transition food (limit it, it is not nutritionally complete).

Regarding liver:  do you have access to freeze dried (or dehydrated) liver in Australia?   Sometimes at least in the USA they sell dehydrated liver as a "doggie training treat".  As long as the food is 100% [meat/organ] it is safe to feed your cats.  Sometimes when I forget to defrost the liver or I run out, I give Ritz the dehydrated liver--she loves it.

 

[tammyp]

I just had a look at my resource compilations, and might have some helpful providers:

1.        http://www.backtonatureforcanines.com.au/feline_food_range.html   MELBOURNE BASED.  These guys do the best commercial raw I’ve seen – just meat and organs.  You’ll need some boney meals in addition.  The reason I haven’t used them, is I pretty much do this myself, but without mince; Kato hates mince.

2.       http://tuckertubonline.com/presta/product.php?id_product=42 Delivers to MELBOURNE and some areas of country Victoria, BUT $30 minimum order plus $12 delivery.  It’s well priced – I just don’t have the freezer space!  They do 100% beef liver baked to a crisp treat.  And fresh minced rabbit and kangaroo.

3.       Liver stuff.  Thanks for making me revisit this!  I could do with getting a bit more down my cats’ throats!  Some of these are a mix of liver and meat; haven’t tried any.

a. http://www.greenpet.com.au/products/ZIWIPEAK-'GOOD%2dCAT'-TREATS-%2d-LAMB-LIVER-85g.html (100% naturally air-dried treat for your cat.Contains Lamb (min 66%), Lamb Liver (min 24%), Chicory Syrup, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Parsley. Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols)   I haven’t tried it.  Have got the daily cat venison&fish treats – Ava loves it, Kato won’t touch it.  If you want to try them, write to ziwipeaks and they will arrange a free sample!  (also available at

http://www.naturalpetstore.com.au/d/ZPCT/17/treats/ziwipeak-good-cat-treats-85g/, so you can work out if this is better priced for your location with postage)

b. http://www.greenpet.com.au/products/GREENPET-FUSSYPET-SPRINKLE.html   Kangaroo meat and liver food sprinkle.  Doesn’t list ingredients, so I’d always check.

c. http://www.greenpet.com.au/products/BALIZ-WOOF-WOOF-ORGANIC-LIVER-TREATS-%2d-100g.html Organic lamb liver treat.  Doesn’t list ingredients, so I’d always check.

If anyone tries any of these products, I’d love if you could PM me with a review!  It is an aim to get all the info I have, up into my blog for Aussies, so some real life comments would also help out.  One thing I’d suggest if you are trying a dog product (that is ok ingredient wise for cats) is to specifically ask about the size – I  tried some 100% dried chicken breast as treats, and they were too hard and thick for my cats (even though the maker knew I would be using for cats!)

Hope this helps - it's been good for me at least!  I'll have to do some liver stuff trialling!

 

[my-boy-jasper]

Thanks for the links Tammyp - the first one Back to Nature for Canines is probably the best I've seen too. However, as you say it's pretty easy to make that up at home. I came across this company http://www.organicpaws.com.au/recipes/  - I think the recipes look pretty good, with the exception of cod liver oil which I've read is not great for cats (too much vit A?). Not of much use to me though, they don't stock in Victoria.

 

[tammyp]

Thanks my-boy-jasper!  They do look pretty good - apart from the Cod Liver Oil (as you say, too much vit A, and also vit D).

I have written to them to ask about distributers here, and re the Cod Liver Oil.

 

[Sa'ida Maryam]

Hi Scottfold and everyone @TCS
I POSTED on the feeding table food thread, but I see I am not the only one with a kittie upset with raw. How is it going with the raw? Or what helps that does not have to be ordered or shipped. ??

 

[scotfold]

Hi Assul.

my kitten seems to be doing ok so far. Though wen I pick him up he makes some weird noise like hes just gna throw up (but doesn't lol)

he still can't handle chicken gizzards so I am not going to bother giving that to him at all. It stinks and maybe just too tough for him.

What I've done is minced the the heart, liver, yolks with a cup of water and abit of chicken thigh.  The rest of the chicken thigh, I cut up into huge chunks so he can chew.
I've given him a chicken neck, but he still hasn't got used to chewing it yet.  I will try again when hes really hungry.  I don't have a grinder so unfortunately I can't grind the bone for him .

I mixed it through with some of his left over wet food (as other members suggested) before serving and he seems to be doing ok.
I will try to make a batch of rabbit and turkey next weekend + more chicken.

His poop is abit on the softer side but I guess that is to be expected due to the food change?

Edit: I just read your post on the other thread and it seems you are having ALOT more trouble then me

 

[pinkman]

What I've done is minced the the heart, liver, yolks with a cup of water and abit of chicken thigh.  The rest of the chicken thigh, I cut up into huge chunks so he can chew.

I've given him a chicken neck, but he still hasn't got used to chewing it yet.  I will try again when hes really hungry.  I don't have a grinder so unfortunately I can't grind the bone for him .

I mixed it through with some of his left over wet food (as other members suggested) before serving and he seems to be doing ok.
I will try to make a batch of rabbit and turkey next weekend + more chicken.

His poop is abit on the softer side but I guess that is to be expected due to the food change?

I am a bit concerned that you mentioned heart, liver, yolks, and chicken thigh only. Although you're mixing with canned food, a balanced raw diet should be around 80% muscle meat, 5% liver, 5% secreting organ, and 10% bone. Heart and also gizzards are considered muscle meat, not actually secreting organ. Maybe I missed something earlier when you posted, but his poop may be on the softer side because there's not much bone (calcium) in his diet.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I just wanted to mention that gizzard and hearts are both considered muscle. 

If he can't handle bone, I recommend egg shell powder. Take your eggshells, wash them very well, then allow them to air dry very well. Once that's done, place them in a coffee grinder or processor. Voila!

 

[ldg]

To use the eggshell as a source of calcium, it takes about 1/2 a teaspoon to balance one pound of meat with the right amount of calcium. If balancing per meal, it takes 1/32 teaspoon of eggshell powder for each ounce of meat, and 3/64 teaspoon of eggshell powder for each ounce of organ. I know - those are hard amounts to figure if you're using 1/4 teaspoon to measure. I don't know if these are available to you, but here we use these:
The "smidgen" (2nd smallest) is 1/32 teaspoon; the "drop" (the smallest one) is 1/64 teaspoon.

 

[scotfold]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]OH Gizzards is meat! that's great! so I wont have to use it at all then XD[/color]

I've only done 1 batch so far, as its his first one, I didn't want to put too many things yet incase he throws it all up.
I've started with 800gm thigh, 200 gm heart (=1kg of meat) 100 gm liver and portioned them to meal sizes. The bone I will let him try to chew for another week, and if it still fails I will try the eggshell powder. He used to be able to chew wingtips a few months ago, but one time he choked on it and I am still freaked out about it.
 

Am I suppose to have 800gm meat, 100gm organ and 100gm bone?

and what other organ can I use as a secret organ.. I will try to add it to his next batch of foods

 

[ldg]

He's a kitten - that calcium is important. VERY important. In fact, here's what happens when their diet is calcium deficient: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/259623/2-months-old-eating-only-meat

Now, that didn't happen in one week. I don't know the time frame. I just know that calcium is critical, especially for growing kittens. :rub:

For 1kg of food, it should be 800g of meat (and hearts and gizzards count as meat), 50g of liver, 50g of another secreting organ (like kidney, spleen, pancreas), and 100g of fresh bone.

If you are substituting eggshell for fresh bone, then it would be 900g of meat, 50g of liver, and 50g of other secreting organ, and to balance this with eggshell, you'd need 1 and 3/16ths teaspoons of finely ground eggshell powder.

 

[scotfold]

Thanks LDG! I have a few more necks to try and give him this week.. after this I will get some more wingtips and sprinkle some eggshells for sure :-)