Raw Food for Dummies - aka ME! :)

[lunasmommy8]

Hi guys!

I'm starting to read the raw forum here, but there seems like a ton of information and I'm getting overwhelmed.

I want to explore the raw diet to see if it makes sense for Luna. She is currently on Purina indoor kibble and the occasional Friskies Wet pate.

From everything I'm reading I guess I should be switching to at least a grain-free diet. I like what Blue Buffalo has to offer, but welcome other brands to reseach and try.

Luna free-feeds, and doesn't truly eat a whole lot. I'm not sure that scheduled feedings may be the best for us; I feel comfortable knowing she has access to food. I am more concerned with her not drinking - she seems to drink infrequently, or perhaps when I'm not looking (derp).

Can anyone please give me a Raw for Dummies rundown? Maybe the top five reasons why its a great switch and any resources or links I can do further research? I sincerely appreciate the help!!!!

Amanda

Meomy to Luna, 14 months

 

[emilymaywilcha]

First of all, if you switch Luna to all wet, dehydration will no longer be a concern. Domestic cats come from felines who lived in the desert so they have a low thirst drive. (The desert cats survived by getting all water from their prey.)  At TCS, there seems to be a geneal agreement any wet is better than the best dry cat food, partly because of increased water consumption.

I like your subject title. A Dummies book could be written about raw feeding for pets, although it probably would include chapters about dogs. But there is no such book to my knowledge, unfortunately. I can't remember any titles, but know there are books about raw food for pets on Amazon.

 

[ldg]

Hi and congrats on looking for a healthy diet for your kitty (raw or otherwise!)

OK - Raw for Dummies. :lol3:

Actually, I'll call it cat nutrition for dummies, because some of the information is important, but not related to feeding just raw foods.

Cats are obligate carnivores. They are genetically designed to get ALL of their nutrition from meat, bones, and organs of their prey. Our Domestic Cats are so little changed genetically from their ancestors (the African Wildcat) that they are virtually indistinguishable at the genetic level, and can and do still mate with the African Wildcat (in fact, it's a problem, preserving the genetic line of the African Wildcat).

Last year, a review of all the studies on feral cat diets was published. They only included studies of ferals that didn't have much access to human food (or garbage). They looked for studies that were at least a year long. The studies used were taken from around the world. Other than in isolated habitats where all the cats could eat were birds, basically the diet of a feral cat is small mammals, principally mice, rats, voles, etc. Not a single cat ate any kind of grain or vegetable. They did eat the entire animals, so they did get some grains or veggies (predigested) by eating the stomach contents of their prey, but this provided such a small amount that their entire carbohydrate consumption was just 2% of their diet. Cats have no nutritional requirement for fiber or carbohydrates, period.

People don't put up fences around their gardens to prevent cats from eating the bean, peas, carrots or corn, right? :lol3:

In fact, their carnivorous nature is SO specific, cats lack the digestive enzymes to convert beta carotene (from carrots and other vegetables) into Vitamin A. They MUST have vitamin A pre-formed (which is why on ANY can or kibble, you will always see Vitamin A as a supplement. Compare that to an ingredient list on commercial raw food - you will never see Vitamin A, because there is enough of it in the raw meat, and it has not been destroyed by cooking it).

If you see carrots in a cat food, it is filler. If you see beta carotene in a cat food, it is for color. Cats can use neither.

Another example of their nutrition requirements being solely carnivorous is their inability to utilize plant-based essential fatty acids. I don't know if you're aware of the discussion within the human health community about the need for supplementing our diets with Omega 3s, which are anti-inflammatory fats, vs. the Omega 6s, which we get bucketloads of in our diet from factory-farmed animals fed feed and the oils used in so many things we eat. There are a lot of plant-based sources of omega 3s. But there are different types of Omega 3s. Plant-based omega 3s are alpha-linoleic acids (ALAs). The other source of Omega 3s you're probably familiar with are fish oils - which provide EPA and DHA. Cats lack the digestive enzymes necessary to utilize any ALA omega 3 fatty acids. They can only utilize EPA and DHA from meat-based sources. Flax in a cat food? I don't know what it does, but it doesn't provide them with any Omega 3.

So cats have very specialized dietary needs, and they are designed to derive their nutrition from animals, not plants.

Now - as to the free feeding. Cats are designed to eat a number of small meals a day (think of them in the wild - they're out there mostly hunting mice). This is the thinking behind free-feeding kibble. Lots of nibbles throughout the day. Unfortunately, this causes a different set of problems. As you know, cats groom a lot, so hair collects in their stomachs. According to the Nutrition Research Council's "Nutrient Requirements for Dogs and Cats," (considered the definitive authority, and the basis on which the AAFCO and the European Union create the "complete and balanced" requirements for pet food), insoluble fiber (stuff like hair) is the last thing to pass from the stomach. These "indigestible solids" do not exit the stomach "until powerful, propulsive, gastric contractions in the fasting state take place." This means that your cat NEEDS hunger pangs to cause the stomach to empty. This helps prevent a number of problems. My cat developed ulcers at 9 years old. Had he not been free-fed most of his life, this might have been avoided. But it definitely helps prevent hairballs. So not directly related to raw - this benefit can be achieved by not letting your cat free feed, whatever food you choose to feed, it is important for their overall health.

As to cooking... cooking - especially at the high temperatures used in processing ALL canned/kibble cat food - destroys most of the nutrients in the food. That is why the supplement list is SO long on everything. When feeding raw food, the cats use SO much of the food for their nutritional/energy needs (the food is far more "bioavailable"), you will see the stool volume drop a LOT. It also has no smell at all.


*****************************************

So....

Cats are obligate carnivores. They have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates. Because they are not designed to digest carbohydrates, doing so takes a toll on their organs over time. Cats do best when fed timed meals, as they need the hunger pangs to stimulate the stomach to empty its contents. Cats, as Emily pointed out, have a low thirst drive (being descended from desert animals). They are designed to get all of their moisture from the food they eat, not from drinking water.

So at a minimum, to feed a species-appropriate diet, a cat should be fed a food that is high in moisture (canned, home made cooked, or raw - which can be made at home or commercially purchased), VERY low in carbohydrates, and they should be fed timed meals.

To provide food when you're not there, you can use a feeder. These have timing mechanisms you can set to release the food in a measured amount. This is one solution for stopping dry free-feeding. Even if you want to feed raw, there are freeze-dried foods. Though the freeze-dried raw foods are intended to be rehydrated if used as meals, they can be served dry for a light meal or treats, and they can be used in a timed feeder in place of a dry kibble in order to supplement wet food meals (whether raw or canned). They're easy to use in a timed feeder as opposed to kibble, and still achieve your goal of improving kitty's diet.

There are a number of raw foods commercially available, and they make it quite easy to feed raw. Here is an overview: http://catcentric.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Commercial-Raw-Product-Overview-Initial.pdf

Nature's Variety, Primal, Bravo (to feed "complete and balanced" you would need to purchase their "Bravo! Balance" food) and Stella & Chewy's tend to be the most widely distributed in specialty (local) pet stores. Rad Cat is one of the highest quality foods: most cats love it, and it's a great transition to raw food. :nod: When using commercial foods, I recommend (just as I do for people feeding canned food) to rotate both brands and protein sources. :nod:

If you want to feed wet food, it's best to look for foods that are grain-free, low-carb, and have short ingredient lists. This list is pretty short, and includes By Nature 95%, Merrick's Before Grain cans, umm.... Nature's Variety Instinct cans (they do have peas and carrots, but not many and they're easy to pick out), some flavors of Weruva, and .... you'll find more in the non-raw nutrition forum. :lol3:

I used commercial frozen raw food and the Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw to transition my cats to an all raw food diet. They eat three meals a day (and they used to be free fed kibble). They eat before work, at dinner after work, and before bed (around 10:30pm - 11:00pm). Raw is so much more satisfying for them that they do not ask for food between meals.

Hope this helps!

And feel free to ask more questions, of course!

 

[txcatmom]

If you want to feed wet food, it's best to look for foods that are grain-free, low-carb, and have short ingredient lists. This list is pretty short, and includes By Nature 95%, Merrick's Before Grain cans, umm.... Nature's Variety Instinct cans (they do have peas and carrots, but not many and they're easy to pick out), some flavors of Weruva, and .... you'll find more in the non-raw nutrition forum.

I read your "essay" with interest, LDG.  I've noticed Wellness canned wasn't on your list and doesn't seem to get much respect these days.  Is it because of the veggies in it?  Mine love Wellness (grain free not the Core) and I love that it is available in the large cans online in a variety of flavors they love. 

 

[lunasmommy8]

That was...incredible.

I seriously think you deserve some sort of award, or medal for that post. THANKS!

I learned quite a bit! I think I'm definitely convinced that a mostly wet diet is the way to go...my only concern is price. Because raw may be better for Luna but I don't have a lot of time to prep myself, how much, commercially, do you think it would cost per month? She goes through about 1/4-1/2 can of wet per day at the moment, then nibbles on kibble at various times. A usually buy one large bag of Purina per month, so right now I am paying about $17/month for all of it (11 for the purins and about .75/can for 8 cans at 1/4 can per day)

I would definitely benefit from having that feeder....how easy do you think it would be to get her to transition from free-feed?

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Because the bioavailability is much higher on raw food than kibble for obvious reasons, Luna will not eat as much of it each day. Many people think they can't afford to feed commercial raw to their cats, so I like to point out saving money on food translates to paying more on vet bills.

 

[lunasmommy8]

I agree with that, totally. I'm looking an no one sells any of the brands you all recommended locally...which is depressing me, slightly.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I agree with that, totally. I'm looking an no one sells any of the brands you all recommended locally...which is depressing me, slightly.

I had the same problem, because I wasn't looking in the right places!  Then something told me to look for "natural" pet supply places.  Bingo!  There were several around and they all sell Natures Variety, Bravo and Primal, plus Stella and Chewy's freeze dried, which is a big hit, since it's similar in consistency to kibble.  Mine still prefer it without being rehydrated, so they get it as a treat, rather than a meal.  If you can find someone who sells Natures Variety, they have a variety pack with 4 of 5 different samples (flavors) to try out, which might be a good way to go. 

Also, have you tried just giving your furkid a small piece of whatever meat you're preparing for yourself for dinner to see if she even knows what meat is?  Laurie didn't touch on Frankenprey (I don't think), but some cats take to it almost immediately, which is a little more involved, but not too difficult.  You must make it nutritionally balanced between the proteins and calcium, etc, but LDG and others manage to do it, pretty easily, I believe.  I would, if my pickies would eat it

, but mine prefer ground, so, so far I'm still buying the nutritionally complete commercially prepared foods.

Oh, and once you determine what Luna likes, you can order via the internet in bulk and it's pretty inexpensive.  I think most of us ended up buying freezers on Craig's List for our cats' raw food

 

[violetxx]

Well said guys!!! 

I read your "essay" with interest, LDG.  I've noticed Wellness canned wasn't on your list and doesn't seem to get much respect these days.  Is it because of the veggies in it?  Mine love Wellness (grain free not the Core) and I love that it is available in the large cans online in a variety of flavors they love. 

I don't dislike Wellness, but as a sole food to feed your cat its definitely not on the top of my list for two main reasons:

1. Its carbohydrate content is not the lowest in comparison to other foods (mentioned above). The only Wellness I feed is the Pouches since its the only one carrageenan-free and low carbs and I feed it in rotation with 4 other brands.

2. I have known too many cats who have gotten ill off wellness, may it be food sensitivities, urinary issues as well as finding dangerous bones.

So I'd just rather be safe than sorry.

 

[ldg]

I had the grain-free Wellness in rotation when I was feeding canned. But it doesn't have the greatest profile carb-wise. I also had EVO in rotation. But if I were still feeding canned, I'd be avoiding carageenan. Lazlo developed ulcers, and though we don't know why, with the knowledge I have now, I would have avoided the free-feeding of dry, and I would avoid foods with carageenan. I don't think I ever fed them anything with soy in it, but that's on my "definite do not feed" list. :lol3:

I didn't mention Wellness because I just couldn't remember any brands. :lol3: My brain hasn't been working quite right the last week or so - overly tired.


I did a spreadsheet that compares the cost of feeding commercial raw with canned foods. In that spreadsheet, I include the cost of raw without shipping - and WITH shipping. Obviously where you live will affect shipping prices. I just priced it for shipping to NJ (where I live). But also included in the spreadsheet is the carb content. I don't include ingredients, but it does help narrow things down, and each food is linked to its website, so it's at least easy to look up ingredients: http://catcentric.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Canned-Raw-Table-1.pdf

And this is the article that goes with it: http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and...y-cat-or-i-can-afford-to-feed-commercial-raw/

LunasMommy, making home made raw really isn't that complicated. I had to learn pretty quickly. :lol3: I was using commercial raw - but not much was available locally. In fact, all I could really source was Nature's Variety. NV frozen raw targets 15% bone, which I learned is too much for a couple of my cats. When making "prey model raw" food, the guideline is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ (hearts and gizzards are not secreting organs, they're considered muscle meat). A side effect of too much calcium is constipation. So I fixed the problem by feeding plain meat. I don't have a grinder, I just cut up chicken or lamb or whatever. And a couple of my boys decided they didn't want to eat ground food any longer.

Now - nutritional deficiencies take a long time to develop. I mean - how many people live on fast food without veggies and fruits? How many kids in college live on pizza? :lol3: So I wasn't worried about getting everything 100% correct right off the bat. But at least I was already comfortable feeding them raw food, and I just learned as I went along. The one thing I made sure to do was to balance the calcium with the meat (meat is high in phosphorus with almost no calcium, so feeding the right amount of calcium is important - but not difficult). And I just went from there....

But I totally agree! Just snip off a piece of whatever you're making for dinner, and see if Luna even recognizes it as food - or thinks it's a yummy treat! No matter her reaction, if you want her to eat raw food, there are ways to do it. The way I describe the process for kitties addicted to kibble or whatever is like a child that's been eating Captain Crunch cereal forever. You plop a salad down in front of them, and they're like "What the heck is this?" :lol3: It's going to take a lot of cheese, bacon, and salad dressing for a while. Same CAN happen with raw. We call the stuff we use to entice kitties into eating raw "toppers," and there are a LOT of things in the arsenal.

The funniest are the kitties that - once they're used to the toppers, but actually like the raw - only need "fake" toppers to get them to dig in. My Flowerbelle was one of these. After the first week or so of using crushed up freeze dried meat treats on top of her food, all I had to do was put my hand over her bowl LIKE I was sprinkling something on there, and she'd start eating. :lol3:

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Laurie, who is the brown and white tabby pictured on Cet Centric? One of your cats?

 

[ldg]

In the "How much does it cost to feed...?" article?

No, that's Auntie Crazy's Heather. My white, one-eyed Flowerbelle is at the end of the article. (The site is Auntie Crazy's).

 

[ldg]

In the "How much does it cost to feed...?" article?

No, that's Auntie Crazy's Heather. My white, one-eyed Flowerbelle is at the end of the article. (The site is Auntie Crazy's).

 

[mani]

LDG I was going to ask the same question.. what a comprehensive reply! 

I've just noticed it and need time to 'digest' it all

but may have a few questions myself.

 

[ldg]

LDG I was going to ask the same question.. what a comprehensive reply! 
I've just noticed it and need time to 'digest' it all but may have a few questions myself.

Ask away!

 

[emilymaywilcha]

No Dummies book is complete without a Part of Tens chapter at the end so we should start with a list of Ten Dos and Don'ts on Raw Feeding and Ten Ways To Feed Raw Food.

 

[lunasmommy8]

No Dummies book is complete without a Part of Tens chapter at the end so we should start with a list of Ten Dos and Don'ts on Raw Feeding and Ten Ways To Feed Raw Food.

Hear, hear!

I would love to know HOW to start integrating raw into her diet, after I now understand its merits. Do's and Dont's are perfect for me!

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Hear, hear!

I would love to know HOW to start integrating raw into her diet, after I now understand its merits. Do's and Don'ts are perfect for me!

Before anybody can write that list, you need to make a decision: some raw or all raw.

 

[lunasmommy8]

I think for the purposes of this thread (inquiring about raw, and aspects of feeding) it may be beneficial to have a full viewpoint regarding implementation. Regardless of what I or others choose, it couldn't hurt to have useful information here for others who may want to know! Just because I haven't decided yet shouldn't prevent anyone from posting about your suggestion. I mean, there are some that may choose to do "some" and could benefit from info, or some that may choose an "all" raw diet.

I'm just open to any and all information!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well, I decided to go 100% raw in March of this year, however, my kitties didn't agree with my decision, so we're still not at 100%

.  Some days we are.  Some WEEKS we are.  But if they go on strike I resort to grain free canned because I can't let them go too long without eating. 

Anyway, gosh, there are so many different ways to try to get them started.  Lots of people suggest just try to mix a little bit of ground up raw into their wet food and see how they like it.  When I saw a little bit, I mean maybe 1/2 teaspoon into their serving of serving of wet food.  'Course, it depends on what you're starting with, too.  If you toss down a piece of meat and they gobble it up, then you don't need to worry about trying to hide it in their food.  With my pickes I had to make little meatballs and roll each one in toppers to get them to ever start eating raw. 

Here's a link specific to how to actually get started on the transition:  http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/how-to-transition-your-cat-to-a-raw-diet?start=2