Raw food and diluted urine

[leapoffaith03]

Hi all! My Sam just came back from his checkup with everything good... Doc said that his urine is a bit more diluted than she'd like to see, but it was just "noteworthy" and something they will watch for that may indicate future potential kidney issues. His bloodwork was all normal. Is this a common occurrence when fed an all raw diet? Sam eats nothing but Rad Cat and loves it. He does have chronic dry skin so also drinks some water on top of that. He is almost 13 and in pretty much perfect health for his age, aside from a little arthritis. Anyone have experience with diluted urine on all raw diet? She never mentioned it could be because of that but she doesn't really discuss the raw diet with me much unfortunately.

 

[detmut]

Hi all! My Sam just came back from his checkup with everything good... Doc said that his urine is a bit more diluted than she'd like to see, but it was just "noteworthy" and something they will watch for that may indicate future potential kidney issues. His bloodwork was all normal. Is this a common occurrence when fed an all raw diet? Sam eats nothing but Rad Cat and loves it. He does have chronic dry skin so also drinks some water on top of that. He is almost 13 and in pretty much perfect health for his age, aside from a little arthritis. Anyone have experience with diluted urine on all raw diet? She never mentioned it could be because of that but she doesn't really discuss the raw diet with me much unfortunately.

i don't think it has anything do with the raw diet. you cat is just getting older. since the blood work was normal, it just needs to be monitored. if the kidneys start failing, the the BUN (blood urea nitrogen) and creatinine levels will rise. how is his blood pressure? hypertension and hyperthyroidism can cause kidney problems. i assume your vet checked for hyperthyroidism in the blood test. 

 

[leapoffaith03]

BP and thyroid tests all totally normal.

 

[ldg]

i don't think it has anything do with the raw diet. you cat is just getting older. since the blood work was normal, it just needs to be monitored. if the kidneys start failing, the the BUN (blood urea nitrogen) and creatinine levels will rise. how is his blood pressure? hypertension and hyperthyroidism can cause kidney problems. i assume your vet checked for hyperthyroidism in the blood test. 

Excellent that BP and thyroid were normal - because hyper-T also masks kidney problems. But Detmut's right - this is not normal for raw, and is thus unrelated to raw. The inability to properly concentrate urine is indicative of kidney disease - when combined with rises in BUN and creatinine. In fact, a rise in BUN on raw is normal - though it it usually still within normal range. It would be a combo of high BUN and lack of proper urine conctration that would be of concern.

 

[ldg]

No, dilute urine is associated with kidney disease not raw feeding. This was addressed very well by Detmut in the health forum: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292411/raw-food-and-diluted-urine

A higher BUN is associated with raw, but it is still typically within normal range. Basically, cats get a higher baseline BUN when raw fed. Most vets are familiar with this even if they don't know raw feeding.

 

[leapoffaith03]

His BUN is slightly elevated but within normal ranges, just like you said. I know he did drink a bunch of water right before we left for the vet. It's odd because his litter box ammonia smell is SO strong, to the point where at times it makes my eyes water (with daily cleanings). So I was a little surprised- it SMELLS super concentrated! LOL Vet said everything else with urine wAs normal, just the color was paler than she would expect. I hate it when they tell me it's not totally normal, yet it's not concerning either. I don't know whether to fret or not

 

[leapoffaith03]

Thanks, LDG. I cross posted my same post here, too.

 

[ldg]

Oh! You mean they didn't run the urine specific gravity test? This is just by looking at it? And the ammonia smell is also associated with kidney disease (or dehydration or diabetes). Did you mention this to the vet?

Well, without running the urine specific gravity, I don't know I'd be willing to say the urine isn't concentrated properly.

 

[leapoffaith03]

I was under the impression he was just getting a general urinalysis. His report says they did the bilirubin, glucose, Ketone, occult blood, ph, protein, and urobilinogen tests on his urine. All within normal ranges but a side note saying color is more diluted than normal. I have mentioned the ammonia smell to the vet, she didn't seem overly concerned.

Side question- is Rad Cat low in phosphorus? Says .92 on the website, he eats the turkey.

 

[ldg]

Yes, Rad Cat is lower than many cat foods in phos, and much lower than any raw that uses bone. Bone contains phosphorus.

Bottom line is that raw is considered by many to be an ideal diet for CKD cats as it is truly human grade, no fillers, very highly digestible with very little waste = easier on the kidneys. Many confuse low protein with low phos.

That's so odd. I thought a standard urinalysis includes urine specific gravity.

 

[leapoffaith03]

I believe they did a strip test for the urinalysis.

What values in terms of phosphorus am I looking to stay under when I am looking at labels? I found one site saying Rad Cat was very high in phosphorus, but that was dated 2010 and it's been said RC has changed their formula since then. I'm happy to hear I'm on the right track with raw If he does start to develop some kidney issues. He's only been on the Rad Cat for about a year and a half, prior to that it was a canned/drymix. Never again. Hopefully I have warded off too many kidney issues before they began (he was switched to raw after a big pancreatitis scare, kidney values have always been normal aside from
The elevated but normal
BUN since starting raw). Thanks for all your advice and help, LDG!

 

[furmonster mom]

While color change can indicate a variety of problems, by itself it's not necessarily a good indicator of "dilution".  Specific testing is the best route for diagnosis. 

I noticed that my cats' urine turned lighter in color when they went on a raw diet, but when I asked the vet to test it via urinalysis and gravity, she re-assured me that it was concentrating properly, so no worries...

However, when I noticed that my 16 year old cat was peeing more often, I had her tested again.  That time, her tests came back with higher BUN, high phos, and low concentration.  At that point we adjusted her diet for CKD.  But again... we wouldn't have taken that step without proper testing.