raw diet?

[lisahe]

 
It's too easy to be overwhelmed by the choices - fear not!

Start by visiting your local pet stores and ask what raw food options they have.  You shouldn't have any trouble finding Nature's Variety "bites" for cats, or Primal nuggets.  You may find other brands like Bravo, Vital Essentials, or Rad Cat.  See if you can get samples or small amounts to try - Primal has a nugget sampler for example.  If cost is a concern, I would skip the freeze dried foods.  They are almost double the price of frozen raw.

To figure the cost of the raw foods, you have to first figure out how much of each food your cat should eat.  It's going to be less than canned.  The companies typically provide online calculators which you should use because calories per ounce can vary a lot (Rad Cat = low, Nature Variety = high), but as a rule of thumb you can figure 3% of body weight per day. 

Then...go for it!  It really is worth it and unless the canned food you've been buying is Friskies, I think you will find that commercial raw costs about the same as you've been paying or maybe a bit less.  Not to mention that you'll save money on litter.  No more gooey, smelly poops!

Just one quick note about the bolded sentence: in my experience, with Primal and Stella & Chewy's, freeze-dried and frozen foods don't vary that much in price, at least in terms of how many meals you get from a bag. In terms of ounces, though, there's a huge difference because you have to add water to freeze-dried. (I don't buy much frozen Primal because the cats now much, much prefer their freeze-dried.) All that said, the way I buy cat foods, it's very hard to make a fair price comparison because I buy at lots of local stores and prices vary a lot. One of the great advantages of freeze-dried is that it's super-convenient: it doesn't take up freezer space and you don't have to remember to thaw it before feeding.

One other general comment for @mwallace056, about prices of raw food. I totally agree with @sophie1 about overall prices. For one thing, a lot of Cat Site members observe that their cats eat less raw food than canned food, in terms of ounces/volume because raw food sates them faster and/or better. Oddly, RadCat, which is generally thought to be expensive, has turned out to be fairly economical for us: it doesn't take a lot to make the cats happy, they love the stuff so nothing goes to waste, and two stores near me sell the large containers for a reasonable price, $12.99. The way our cats eat, the cheapest foods are the ones they'll actually finish!

 

[lisamarie12]

 @mwallace056@sophie1 Oddly, RadCat, which is generally thought to be expensive, has turned out to be fairly economical for us: it doesn't take a lot to make the cats happy, they love the stuff so nothing goes to waste, and two stores near me sell the large containers for a reasonable price, $12.99. The way our cats eat, the cheapest foods are the ones they'll actually finish!

I agree LisaHE, the cats feel more sated with raw; I still have a little left of RadCat, when I alternate with Primal, it lasts longer.

I need to search for info, however, re: the amount of bone in commercial raw. I read on one of these threads that 7 - 8% bone is adequate for cats. Primal has 10% bone (and NV, I think, 15% per another thread - I don't know if that's accurate or not). But I did verify the 10% with Primal. I know RadCat uses eggshell in lieu of bone. I stumbled onto one site (rawfedcats) which indicated:

...Furthermore, those premixed patties sometimes contain ground bone and organs and sometimes don't, and it’s often unclear exactly what proportions of meat, bone or organs they do contain. Besides that, some of those patties even contain things like vegetables, fruits and psyllium, which are often used as cheap fillers. And since commercial frozen raw pet foods often contain an overabundance of ground bone, (because bones are cheaper than boneless meat) many manufacturers regularly include vegetable matter and psyllium in their recipes because if they didn't, the excessive amounts of bone in their products would cause chronic constipation in pets that ate them.

http://www.rawfedcats.org/nogrinders.htm

It does get a bit confusing with all the info out there .... the more I learn the more I realize I don't know about this topic. I can understand someone being overwhelmed. Commercial raw is very convenient but now I'm unsure about the ground bone.   But I will still feed raw b/c my cats are much better on this diet, but wondering if I should look for an alternative.

 

[Kat0121]

 
Just one quick note about the bolded sentence: in my experience, with Primal and Stella & Chewy's, freeze-dried and frozen foods don't vary that much in price, at least in terms of how many meals you get from a bag. In terms of ounces, though, there's a huge difference because you have to add water to freeze-dried. (I don't buy much frozen Primal because the cats now much, much prefer their freeze-dried.) All that said, the way I buy cat foods, it's very hard to make a fair price comparison because I buy at lots of local stores and prices vary a lot. One of the great advantages of freeze-dried is that it's super-convenient: it doesn't take up freezer space and you don't have to remember to thaw it before feeding.

One other general comment for @mwallace056, about prices of raw food. I totally agree with @sophie1 about overall prices. For one thing, a lot of Cat Site members observe that their cats eat less raw food than canned food, in terms of ounces/volume because raw food sates them faster and/or better. Oddly, RadCat, which is generally thought to be expensive, has turned out to be fairly economical for us: it doesn't take a lot to make the cats happy, they love the stuff so nothing goes to waste, and two stores near me sell the large containers for a reasonable price, $12.99. The way our cats eat, the cheapest foods are the ones they'll actually finish!

The way our cats eat, the cheapest foods are the ones they'll actually finish! 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. Mine are exactly the same way. Especially Lilith. She's a terrible eater. I wish I could have 5 seconds where she could talk. I'd ask her only one question.

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WILL ACTUALLY EAT?

It's so frustrating because foods that she used to love are no longer acceptable. Sophie's pretty bad, too, but not as bad as Lily. Henry is the best out of the three but he's starting to become choosy, too. He hasn't gotten to fussy yet (Sophie's level) or IMPOSSIBLE (Lily) but there are definitely foods he doesn't like. I know there'e nothing wrong with Lily. She can smell a steak, lamb chop. piece of chicken, etc on my plate from the other side of the house and will eat as much of it as I am willing to give her. Putting the meat in her dish means she'll pick it out and leave her own food behind. She hasn't taken to the raw very well. At least not the Primal Pronto or the Stella and Chewy's.  She'll eat the freeze dried S&C but not reconstituted in her dish. Only as a treat from my hand. I have a chub of the Primal lamb. I'm going to try that. If this doesn't work, I guess I'll have to go to the threads for the home cooked recipes and try those since she likes cooked meats so much. She really is the ultimate diva. She has me wrapped around her tiny little paw and knows it. She takes after her human sister in that respect. DD is also one of the pickiest eaters I have ever met. I am a magnet for picky eaters. 

 

[lisahe]

It's so frustrating because foods that she used to love are no longer acceptable. Sophie's pretty bad, too, but not as bad as Lily. Henry is the best out of the three but he's starting to become choosy, too. He hasn't gotten to fussy yet (Sophie's level) or IMPOSSIBLE (Lily) but there are definitely foods he doesn't like. I know there'e nothing wrong with Lily. She can smell a steak, lamb chop. piece of chicken, etc on my plate from the other side of the house and will eat as much of it as I am willing to give her. Putting the meat in her dish means she'll pick it out and leave her own food behind. She hasn't taken to the raw very well. At least not the Primal Pronto or the Stella and Chewy's.  She'll eat the freeze dried S&C but not reconstituted in her dish. Only as a treat from my hand. I have a chub of the Primal lamb. I'm going to try that. If this doesn't work, I guess I'll have to go to the threads for the home cooked recipes and try those since she likes cooked meats so much. She really is the ultimate diva. She has me wrapped around her tiny little paw and knows it. She takes after her human sister in that respect. DD is also one of the pickiest eaters I have ever met. I am a magnet for picky eaters. 

I think your girl cats are in cahoots with Ireland, our pickier eater!

A couple thoughts on the foods... Primal Pronto: our cats don't especially like Primal's frozen foods but they'll eat it if it's mixed with other things, like Primal's freeze-dried foods or (drum roll, please!) with some Stella & Chewy's crumbled on the top. They'll eat just about anything if I crumble a bit of Stella & Chewy's on the top. Don't be afraid, either, to try all sorts of weird goulash-like mixes. I don't remember: have you tried RadCat? Those foods seem to work well for a lot of cats, as a gateway food to raw.

Also, about picky eating habits. This may not be an issue at all for you, though I didn't realize it was as strong an issue for our cats as it apparently is. So I'll just mention it! I recently determined that our pickier eater, Ireland (the lynx mix in my avatar), may be more of an intimidated eater than a picky eater. The other cat, Edwina (the snowshoe mix in the avatar), skulks around waiting for Ireland's leftovers. This is all, of course, very complicated since they are cats, but I've started separating them for more meals than before and wow, what a difference, Ireland now eats more readily and heartily and Edwina, who has scarf-and-barf tendencies, slows down because the competition is behind a closed door. Ireland's always been a nervous, wiry cat but she'd gotten a little skinnier than I like to see her (though the vet thought she was in normal range, and she does have a wiry, leggy build to start with...) so it's great to see her putting a few ounces back on and not looking so angular.

Feeding these two is such a work in progress so everything may change in another week or two! It's a good thing they're such great cats!

 

[Kat0121]

 
I think your girl cats are in cahoots with Ireland, our pickier eater!

A couple thoughts on the foods... Primal Pronto: our cats don't especially like Primal's frozen foods but they'll eat it if it's mixed with other things, like Primal's freeze-dried foods or (drum roll, please!) with some Stella & Chewy's crumbled on the top. They'll eat just about anything if I crumble a bit of Stella & Chewy's on the top. Don't be afraid, either, to try all sorts of weird goulash-like mixes. I don't remember: have you tried RadCat? Those foods seem to work well for a lot of cats, as a gateway food to raw.

Also, about picky eating habits. This may not be an issue at all for you, though I didn't realize it was as strong an issue for our cats as it apparently is. So I'll just mention it! I recently determined that our pickier eater, Ireland (the lynx mix in my avatar), may be more of an intimidated eater than a picky eater. The other cat, Edwina (the snowshoe mix in the avatar), skulks around waiting for Ireland's leftovers. This is all, of course, very complicated since they are cats, but I've started separating them for more meals than before and wow, what a difference, Ireland now eats more readily and heartily and Edwina, who has scarf-and-barf tendencies, slows down because the competition is behind a closed door. Ireland's always been a nervous, wiry cat but she'd gotten a little skinnier than I like to see her (though the vet thought she was in normal range, and she does have a wiry, leggy build to start with...) so it's great to see her putting a few ounces back on and not looking so angular.

Feeding these two is such a work in progress so everything may change in another week or two! It's a good thing they're such great cats!

I've tried the S&C as a topper and mixed into the Primal Pronto, mixed into canned and by itself. She likes it but refused it any way other than me giving it to her by hand. I've tried to find the Rad Cat. They have one store in my area listed on their store locator and when I called them, they said that they do not carry raw cat food in any form from any brand. Canned and dry only. 

Lilith is a very petite cat. She's about 5 pounds. Sophie's a little bigger at about 6 but she's also pretty small. Henry dwarfs them at about 10 pounds. He's long and lean. L&S have their dishes near each other but rarely eat at the same time. Sophie will eat first 99% of the time and eat a little from each dish then leave. I rearrange the food in the dishes after she's done. Lily is a grazer. A little here and a little there. She eats the most at night. Other than one small hairball out of Sophie about 4 months ago or so, neither has ever vomited. Everything is normal in the litter box as well. I may (Ok not may.

) have gotten her spoiled by letting her eat off my plate).  I know it's my fault that she's a diva- and a princess. They are all just so cute, sweet and cuddly that I have to give them whatever they want. The girls know how to work me and are giving Henry lessons when they go in to visit him in his safe room. 

The dog is the anti diva. she will eat ANYTHING. 

 

[Kat0121]

I found some Rad Cat. I picked up a small container each of chicken and turkey. The chicken is defrosting in the fridge right now. They didn't eat their breakfast. The lady at the pet store I bought it from told me that they might not be picky at all and that they only need to eat 2% of their body weight a day. That would give Lilith 1.6 ounces a day to make her "full". That's like half a can of FF or whatever. That doesn't sound right to me. I thought the rule of thumb was 1 oz of food for each pound of body weight for maintenance. That's what I've been offering them and that's pretty much exactly what Henry eats. He's my good eater and he's long and lean.

 

[lisahe]

 
I found some Rad Cat. I picked up a small container each of chicken and turkey. The chicken is defrosting in the fridge right now. They didn't eat their breakfast. The lady at the pet store I bought it from told me that they might not be picky at all and that they only need to eat 2% of their body weight a day. That would give Lilith 1.6 ounces a day to make her "full". That's like half a can of FF or whatever. That doesn't sound right to me. I thought the rule of thumb was 1 oz of food for each pound of body weight for maintenance. That's what I've been offering them and that's pretty much exactly what Henry eats. He's my good eater and he's long and lean.

Oooh, I hope they like it! Our cats prefer turkey but will readily eat chicken, too. I'm not at all scientific about how much food I feed our cats (I just eye the food, eye the cats...) but I do know that they fill up much faster (and for longer) on RadCat than anything else. It's an afternoon small meal/large snack for them, and they probably get an average of 2T per cat per meal. I don't know how much that translates to in ounces, though. Plus our cats are young and (on most days) super-active so may not be a good comp!

 

[Kat0121]

 
Oooh, I hope they like it! Our cats prefer turkey but will readily eat chicken, too. I'm not at all scientific about how much food I feed our cats (I just eye the food, eye the cats...) but I do know that they fill up much faster (and for longer) on RadCat than anything else. It's an afternoon small meal/large snack for them, and they probably get an average of 2T per cat per meal. I don't know how much that translates to in ounces, though. Plus our cats are young and (on most days) super-active so may not be a good comp!

Thanks. I hope they like it, too. The 8 oz containers were $6.99 US and she told me that the 16 oz containers are $10.99. I didn't price the 24 ounce. Does that sound like a decent price? The lamb, chicken and turkey are all the same price which is pretty good I think. Most brands charge more for lamb than chicken and turkey

 

[lisahe]

 
Thanks. I hope they like it, too. The 8 oz containers were $6.99 US and she told me that the 16 oz containers are $10.99. I didn't price the 24 ounce. Does that sound like a decent price? The lamb, chicken and turkey are all the same price which is pretty good I think. Most brands charge more for lamb than chicken and turkey

Two stores near me charge $12.99 for the 24 ounce containers but I don't know how much they charge for the smaller sizes! Our cats don't like the lamb much... though our previous cat did eat it. It's very fatty.

 

[Kat0121]

 
Two stores near me charge $12.99 for the 24 ounce containers but I don't know how much they charge for the smaller sizes! Our cats don't like the lamb much... though our previous cat did eat it. It's very fatty.

So it's probably not too much more than what you pay. Still better than having to pay shipping. I'll stick with the chicken and turkey for now if they will eat it. Fingers crossed. Sophie woke me up wanting her breakfast and then turned up her nose at it.

The RC chicken will be dinner. I hope.

 

[sophie1]

 
... in my experience, with Primal and Stella & Chewy's, freeze-dried and frozen foods don't vary that much in price, at least in terms of how many meals you get from a bag. In terms of ounces, though, there's a huge difference because you have to add water to freeze-dried. ... The way our cats eat, the cheapest foods are the ones they'll actually finish!

Getting cats to eat everything is definitely a big cost factor!  Point taken.

My statement that freeze dried foods are almost double the price of frozen raw was based on recommended feeding amounts for a 10 lb cat, plus my own experience.  My cats love Stella and Chewys and having raw food around that is so easy to store was a big attraction.  But if you fed that food full time and paid $25 per 12 oz bag, your cost per day, per cat would be over $3.  In contrast, the most economical raw frozen complete food, the Nature Variety or Bravo Balance chicken chub, costs about $5/lb which works out to $1.25 per day, per cat if you feed 4 oz/day.  The cost goes up of course if you feed more expensive food...e.g. Rad Cat at $9/lb (which is an amazing price btw) would be $2.25 per day, per cat.

Those chubs are hard to find now, and Rad Cat around me is far more than what you're paying.  I gave up on the bites/nuggets because they are invariably freezer burned, and my cats wouldn't eat them.  Nature Variety patties are OK except they are now formulated only for dogs, and they are still pricey, like $8/lb for chicken if I buy them locally.  So I agree that realistically, your best options are Rad Cat or Stella and Chewys freeze dried (when you can get it).  If you're going to feed raw for the long haul, though, I think you'll really only want to use these products to transition your cats to home prepared meals.  Homemade is a little daunting at first, but easy to get used to - and probably less time consuming than all the searching about for commercial raw.  And a LOT cheaper...my cats eat very well for less than $4/lb.  But it is a little scary to take full responsibility for your cats' diet, instead of leaving it to the AAFCO.

 

[sophie1]

Kat021:  1 oz per pound of body weight???  Even for canned that's a lot.  I have two 12 lb active cats at close to ideal weight, and they eat 8-10 oz/day between them.  I think Rad Cat is kinda low in calories though, so you may need to feed a bit more.

One thing the commercial foods are missing is variety.  My cats eat chicken and turkey as staple foods, but if I feed them that (or anything else except rabbit) for more than a couple days they will start refusing it. I find I need at least 4 proteins in rotation to keep them from getting picky.  Oddly enough, my cats are iffy about lamb but they go crazy for mutton.

 

[lisahe]

Originally Posted by sophie1  

My statement that freeze dried foods are almost double the price of frozen raw was based on recommended feeding amounts for a 10 lb cat, plus my own experience.  My cats love Stella and Chewys and having raw food around that is so easy to store was a big attraction.  But if you fed that food full time and paid $25 per 12 oz bag, your cost per day, per cat would be over $3.  In contrast, the most economical raw frozen complete food, the Nature Variety or Bravo Balance chicken chub, costs about $5/lb which works out to $1.25 per day, per cat if you feed 4 oz/day.  The cost goes up of course if you feed more expensive food...e.g. Rad Cat at $9/lb (which is an amazing price btw) would be $2.25 per day, per cat.

Those chubs are hard to find now, and Rad Cat around me is far more than what you're paying.  I gave up on the bites/nuggets because they are invariably freezer burned, and my cats wouldn't eat them.  Nature Variety patties are OK except they are now formulated only for dogs, and they are still pricey, like $8/lb for chicken if I buy them locally.  So I agree that realistically, your best options are Rad Cat or Stella and Chewys freeze dried (when you can get it).  If you're going to feed raw for the long haul, though, I think you'll really only want to use these products to transition your cats to home prepared meals.  Homemade is a little daunting at first, but easy to get used to - and probably less time consuming than all the searching about for commercial raw.  And a LOT cheaper...my cats eat very well for less than $4/lb.  But it is a little scary to take full responsibility for your cats' diet, instead of leaving it to the AAFCO.

  Oh, sophie1, I was thinking about the frozen raw foods in a totally different way: as the same-brand equivalents of the freeze-dried stuff! Like Primal's frozen "nuggets" versus their freeze-dried "nuggets." And the prices for those are almost exactly the same, whether frozen or freeze-dried.

So yes, I totally agree with you about frozen chubs and foods you add nutrients to: they're definitely cheaper than the complete meals.

Sorry about the misunderstanding! And I'm also sorry our cats didn't really take to Bravo's complete chubs because they really are reasonably priced. Thanks goodness for the relatively low prices here on Rad Cat!

I'm one of those people who finds homemade daunting, not just the nutrition aspect -- and I sometimes think I might trust myself more than AAFCO! -- but also finding good, clean ingredients, having options for variety for these picky cats, and being sure I don't make mistakes. I made one batch using Dr. Pierson's recipe and the cats loved it. I may make it again, though I have to say I like the option of the treated foods from Stella and Chewy's and Primal, plus Rad Cat's testing... I can't say I'm bacteria-phobic after growing up with a dietitian for a mother (they get a lot of training on food safety!) but it does make me nervous.

 
Kat021:  1 oz per pound of body weight???  Even for canned that's a lot.  I have two 12 lb active cats at close to ideal weight, and they eat 8-10 oz/day between them.  I think Rad Cat is kinda low in calories though, so you may need to feed a bit more.

I don't always measure certain foods very carefully or track calories but do know that, on average, our cats eat close to 1 ounce (combined, canned and raw) per pound! If I total up cans, Rad Cat, and equivalents for various freeze-dried nuggets, they get a minimum of around 12 ounces a day between them, often more. They are young (two years old), small (roughly seven and eight vet-approved pounds), and super-active, though, and their foods vary a lot in calorie content. The more I read about how much people feed their cats, the more I think it's even more individual than I ever thought, depending on exact foods and exact cat activity and metabolisms. It amazes me how much our cats can eat -- and burn up -- but it amazes me even more how much they can sprint and climb! I dread the day when their physical activity slows down and I can't feed them as much. That will be a tough day.

The day when How to Tell If Your Cat Is Plotting to Kill You may come true in our household.

 

[lisahe]

 
So it's probably not too much more than what you pay. Still better than having to pay shipping. I'll stick with the chicken and turkey for now if they will eat it. Fingers crossed. Sophie woke me up wanting her breakfast and then turned up her nose at it.

The RC chicken will be dinner. I hope.

I'm glad to see (in "that other thread") that Rad Cat evidently went over well! May they continue to eat it!

 

[mwallace056]

quick question, if we forgot to buy cat food and it friday and dad won't going to work until monday, what can i feed for those two days?

 

[Kat0121]

 
I'm glad to see (in "that other thread") that Rad Cat evidently went over well! May they continue to eat it!

They definitely like it a lot more than they like the Primal. Of course I have plenty of Primal in the freezer. I hope they will eat it. maybe if I thaw it out all the way and mash it up so it looks more like the Rad Cat. 

 

[Kat0121]

 
quick question, if we forgot to buy cat food and it friday and dad won't going to work until monday, what can i feed for those two days?

I think that if you gave them things like chicken and other meats (I'd cook them at least part of the way if you've never given them raw before) it should be OK for a couple of days until you can get them back on their regular diet. Are they OK now? it's Tuesday. 

 

[mwallace056]

they got enough food to last them today, my dad is going to pick food up today. they ate mice and bunnies, squirrels that mama cat caught before. do i still have to cook it a little? i was just wondering is it ok to feed unbalanced for couple of days if i forgot to ask him to pick up food 

 

[lisahe]

 
They definitely like it a lot more than they like the Primal. Of course I have plenty of Primal in the freezer. I hope they will eat it. maybe if I thaw it out all the way and mash it up so it looks more like the Rad Cat. 

Yes, that sometimes works for our cats... I usually add a little water, too. Good luck!

 

[Kat0121]

 
they got enough food to last them today, my dad is going to pick food up today. they ate mice and bunnies, squirrels that mama cat caught before. do i still have to cook it a little? i was just wondering is it ok to feed unbalanced for couple of days if i forgot to ask him to pick up food 

If they have enough food for today then they should be fine if he's going to pick up some more today. I think it is if they are healthy. If any of them have any kind of medical issues where they need to be on a specific diet that would be different but it doesn't sound like they are. You should be fine.