raw diet and FIV positive

[maureen brad]

I did the 12 week one protein with Remy. We also used rabbit. He doesn't have food allergies. We were just trying because of his stomatitis. He does have FHV and tends to be congested.He used to have really waxy, yeasty ears. That changed with the raw diet.The health benefits of raw for Remy were really good but .... so many things complicated his stomatitis and I believe the things we tried to help him hurt him. He is having a fairly good day today so I take it one day at a time.

 

[pocho]

Oh good about Remy today. I forgot how old you say he is? Giuseppi is round 4 yrs. I am collecting stories and accounts of FIV cats. Giuseppe also has stuffy nose and wet ears. When he gets allergic the skin on his head get a little sticky too. Btw, when I wrote Primal the rep also mentioned they are now sourcing their rabbit from france and plan to come out with new protein sources including redmeat ones.

 

[lisamarie12]

Pocho:

That's interesting re: Primal now sourcing from France. The past several years they have changed their rabbit sourcing several times, it was moved around a bit in the U.S., per what the rep told me. Thanks for posting this info. I wish they would come out with an additional freeze dried food other than the two fish based and turkey.

 

[lisamarie12]

 
Poor little Guiseppi. Have you tried feeding him Venison or Quail? They are expensive but some cats do well on them . I just laced a big order on Hare Today. I got some quail, venison chunks and the usual Rabbit, Chicken, Turkey and pork. I ordered a pound of duck and am going to try serving that with Rabbit organs.I am so weird that I get very excited when I order from HT.

I have finally settled on a diet for Remy. I will use Dr. Pierson's recipe for chicken and turkey but without bone . I will feed him the rabbit from HT. It is ground while frozen and I feel that the chance of contamination is minimum. I will also feed him Stella and Chewy's freeze dried Duck, Duck Goose. Because I want to have a wider variety for all the cats I will continue giving Remy the Wild Calling Buffalo.

Remy is looking better but he is still lethargic and kind of withdrawn.

I really do not know what happened but last night I happened upon an article linking the Covenia injections with Anemia and Remy had three injections of Covenia over a 3 months period in late 2014.

Remy is my only cat that is impossible to pill and so the vet gave him those injections. He didn't have any obvious reaction and the shots did help him but now I am left wondering.

 The vet does feel this is all due to his FIV even though his WBC is normal right now. She told me that FIV can make its way into the bone marrow.

 I forgot to tell you that I give Remy a 5 mg generic  Zyrtec  tablet hidden in his food once a day.I use the generic just to save a couple $$ This is greatly helping his allergies. The only place I have found that low dosage is at the Kaiser pharmacy.

After giving him that for about 6 months he began to somehow eat around them and leave the tablet. For the past couple weeks though I have managed to fool him. The beauty of that size tab is that it is very thin and easy to hide. I have read vet articles saying that is safe and helpful for cats.Maybe you could give it a try.

Maureen,

I'm very sorry Remy is going through such an ordeal. Let me mention that my FHV four year old kitty, on two separate occasions had Convenia shots (because he is hard to pill) and it completely knocked him out - the second time far worse than the first time. For three weeks my normally high energy (he's half Abyssinian) cat was extremely lethargic and withdrawn - I thought I was going to loose him. I did notice an article on Dr. Pierson's site re: convenia - to avoid it. The next time he needed an antibiotic (from a staph infection he caught b/c of intense scratching on his neck), we used Orbax liquid and he had no problems. Anyway, I realize Remy has FIV and I'm sorry about that, however, I just wanted to convey the negative experience we had with convenia - never again.  Hope your little guy is doing better.

 

[lisamarie12]

Poor Remy. Hope he is still a little more engaged in life and feeling better. You are absolutely right about allergies and Giuseppi. I started introducing some pheasant and goat milk besides the rabbit that seemed to reverse his IBD. Looking back that is when all the scratching got worse and then it was confirmed with explosive diarrhea. So Ibd or allergies or both my guy can't even have novel fowl sources right now or milk. He won' go near lamb so I am on a quest for novel red meat sources. I wish they sold mice in a can or frozen. Seems it would be perfect.

Doesn't Hare Today sell mice?

 

[roguethecat]

 
Doesn't Hare Today sell mice?

I get mine from Rodentpro. But two of three whole-prey eaters prefer rats.

 

[maureen brad]

Lisa Marie- I did read Dr. Piersons article. I have to say that remy had no negative reaction to Covenia that I could see. I thought it helped him. He has never made a sound during the time I have had him. He has tried,  he moves his mouth but no sound. At one time he probably was a talky cat but FHV took that from him. On the Covenia he suddenly made sounds we could hear. Not loud but I could hear him, his eyes got better too. He seemed fine.

I am just theorizing that perhaps that shot had something to do with his sudden non-regenerative anemia.

I did have a cat that had Covenia once and did have a negative reaction, just like you mentioned your cat had.At the time I had never heard of Covenia and my ex-vet presented it to me as a great thing so I let her give the shot. Scared me to death afterward. I weighed the pro's and con's of Remy having those shots. I didn't have any idea it was linked with anemia. From now on if he needs an anti-biotic I will take my chances mixing Clavamox in his food and that is it. I cannot pill him, what I mean by that is while I can 'win' and get a pill in him it so traumatizes him that he is fearful for many weeks afterward and he won't come near me at all , he becomes obviously fearful .

He has gone through so much and I won't put him through to much more.

 The other two forgive me and quickly get over being pilled, having their nails trimmed, teeth brushed etc. Remy falls apart.

 I actually take him to the vet once a month and pay $20 to have his nails trimmed.

 Again, I have no proof that Covenia caused Remy any harm but now I will always wonder.

 

[pocho]

I get mine from Rodentpro. But two of three whole-prey eaters prefer rats.

that's good to know. He is an ex feral so I am sure he understands the mouse scene. Do you guys think Primal raw dog food with taurine added would be a balanced diet? There are so many more protein choices in raw dog supplies atleast at my pet store. I did order some venison though....

 

[abby2932]

that's good to know. He is an ex feral so I am sure he understands the mouse scene. Do you guys think Primal raw dog food with taurine added would be a balanced diet? There are so many more protein choices in raw dog supplies atleast at my pet store. I did order some venison though....

I read somewhere that it isn't optimal to feed cats dog food as their dietary needs are different. I have heard that others do this; at  least they do add the extra taurine. I would be hesitant to do it.

A better solution would be to ask your pet store if you can custom order some extra flavors of the Primal Feline formulas. They have Pheasant, Rabbit, Venison, Turkey, Chicken & Salmon and Beef & Salmon (although I would stay away from any fish formulas). 

 

[roguethecat]

you know, you don't have to bow to the pet food industry and buy anything pre-made. Whatever's in there will be with their profit in mind (most certainly too much bone because that's cheap, bone indigestible for cats, too much liver, supplements out of China, you name it). If you have to feed ground food, there are good recipes out there. If you can, avoid it in favor of something to chew. Try the dark parts of chicken, any preferably red meat in chunks as big as will be tolerated and just watch the outcome (too soft - more bone, too brittle - less bone and more organs). The rule of thumb over a week is for 5% liver, 5% secreting organs like kidney, 5% edible bone like quail or chicken and the rest is meat. Heart is fed as meat as it's a muscle.

 

[pocho]

you know, you don't have to bow to the pet food industry and buy anything pre-made. Whatever's in there will be with their profit in mind (most certainly too much bone because that's cheap, bone indigestible for cats, too much liver, supplements out of China, you name it). If you have to feed ground food, there are good recipes out there. If you can, avoid it in favor of something to chew. Try the dark parts of chicken, any preferably red meat in chunks as big as will be tolerated and just watch the outcome (too soft - more bone, too brittle - less bone and more organs). The rule of thumb over a week is for 5% liver, 5% secreting organs like kidney, 5% edible bone like quail or chicken and the rest is meat. Heart is fed as meat as it's a muscle.

Do you think a cat with allergies to any fowl would tolerate the bone of that animal? He had horrible reactions to pheasant...too much bone is a problem in these formulas? Is that why to this day I have to add pumpkin to my cats frozen raw or I have to chase them around trying to help them remove the stuck turd? Sorry for the excessive details but it happens often here if I don't use pumpkin. And do you think a diet of mice would work? Wonder what they feed them?

 

[roguethecat]

Do you think a cat with allergies to any fowl would tolerate the bone of that animal? He had horrible reactions to pheasant...too much bone is a problem in these formulas? Is that why to this day I have to add pumpkin to my cats frozen raw or I have to chase them around trying to help them remove the stuck turd? Sorry for the excessive details but it happens often here if I don't use pumpkin. And do you think a diet of mice would work? Wonder what they feed them?

1. You can't know until you try - a cat can be allergic against cooked pheasant only, or against only meat or any particular organ and not bone, or against totally the whole pheasant. 

2. most probably they add too much bone. Bone is cheap, and they have to make a profit on this.

3. I would most certainly try. Apparently black, white and hairless mice all taste different. The Rogue prefers the hairless ones. Any of his intestinal problems vanish once he eats more mice than whatever he found venturing outside.

4. They feed them mice chow, something that looks similar to the pellets pet stores sell for rabbits. Unless you want to start breeding mice yourself, that's the best you get...

 

[lisamarie12]

 
Lisa Marie- I did read Dr. Piersons article. I have to say that remy had no negative reaction to Covenia that I could see. I thought it helped him. He has never made a sound during the time I have had him. He has tried,  he moves his mouth but no sound. At one time he probably was a talky cat but FHV took that from him. On the Covenia he suddenly made sounds we could hear. Not loud but I could hear him, his eyes got better too. He seemed fine.

I am just theorizing that perhaps that shot had something to do with his sudden non-regenerative anemia.

I did have a cat that had Covenia once and did have a negative reaction, just like you mentioned your cat had.At the time I had never heard of Covenia and my ex-vet presented it to me as a great thing so I let her give the shot. Scared me to death afterward. I weighed the pro's and con's of Remy having those shots. I didn't have any idea it was linked with anemia. From now on if he needs an anti-biotic I will take my chances mixing Clavamox in his food and that is it. I cannot pill him, what I mean by that is while I can 'win' and get a pill in him it so traumatizes him that he is fearful for many weeks afterward and he won't come near me at all , he becomes obviously fearful .

He has gone through so much and I won't put him through to much more.

 The other two forgive me and quickly get over being pilled, having their nails trimmed, teeth brushed etc. Remy falls apart.

 I actually take him to the vet once a month and pay $20 to have his nails trimmed.

 Again, I have no proof that Covenia caused Remy any harm but now I will always wonder.

Remy is fortunate to have such a dedicated caregiver as you; sending good thoughts your way.

 

[maureen brad]

Thank you LisaMarie- Remy seems pretty good today. I am taking him back in the morning for another blood test.

 

[ranshao]

I just read on a popular vet website that in her opinion raw dies is fine for FIV cats except in one case, if the white blood cell count is high. Is there a way to know this without blood work or signs? I think this is a very reasonable guideline and want to use it for my Giuseppi.

Do you have the link to that site where you read that?