Rabies vaccine for elderly indoor cats

[Willowy]

Oh, and I won't vaccinate elderly or sick pets at all. Even the dogs, I stop when they get to be 10 or so or if they have a chronic illness (including arthritis). Cancer is not the only concern with vaccines; they also can get the immune system all in an uproar (that's actually kind of the point) and this is bad if the immune system is already compromised.

 

[zoneout]

Here is the AVMA information about injection-site cancers with links to more info: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/rbbroch.aspx

And here's the links (it's a PDF) to state laws (keep in mind that local ordinances may be stricter; state laws are the minimum): https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/rabies-vaccination.aspx

The vet can't make you vaccinate your pet, even if it's the law. They might refuse to see your pet, but they can't report you or have you arrested or anything like that. If they do refuse to see an unvaccinated pet, look for another vet. Now, if you have a bite incident with an unvaccinated pet, you might have legal trouble. Soo you just have to decide what kind of chances your pets have of ever having a bite incident with a child or a stranger.

Personally, I vaccinate my cats once, or twice if they're little kittens when I get them, then never again if I can help it. I do keep the dogs legal because dogs are more likely to have contact with the public.

Excellent info.  Thank you.  The problem I have is that the vets I have run into tend to tell me what they did after they already did it so I have no say beforehand.   Its very frustrating.   They want to get thru patients as quickly as possible - so they have methods of avoiding conversations - like sending in techs to discuss matters.

 

[buffy2011]

 
Excellent info.  Thank you.  The problem I have is that the vets I have run into tend to tell me what they did after they already did it so I have no say beforehand.   Its very frustrating.   They want to get thru patients as quickly as possible - so they have methods of avoiding conversations - like sending in techs to discuss matters.

I seem to have this same problem with this vet that I just went to. They are the ones that said my cat needed her rabies shot and said it was the law and  when they took her to try to get some urine from her for a UTI infection they gave her the shot. I didn't refuse because I thought maybe they were going to turn me into someone.  So I don't know where they gave her the shot or what actually they gave her. Because she isn't up to date with all these other shots they want  to give her so who knows what they do when they take your cat into another room. But I am going to start standing may ground from now on and I'm not letting my animal out of my sight and if they want to do something to her in another room I am going with her. Its my animal and I make the decisions not them.  These vets are out for quantity not quality. Like you said as many as they can push threw.  I come out from having an animal at the vets and I have all kind of medicine waiting for me to pay for. I don't even know what he prescribed and what it is going to do. Putting chemicals into an animal is a bad thing. Some of these medicines are really bad for animals.  And then to find out the medicine didn't work and they want me to come back and give me some more medicine. Needless to say I quit using this vet but I needed them in a real hurry for my cat and this rabies shot thing happened. But I will not use them again. I'm starting to read alot about holistic vets. I am very interested in them. My animals are ok right now but if there is something out there to keep there immune system strong I want to know so I can give it to the. And I do understand that if someone gets bit and my cat isn't up to date with a rabies shot there is going to be some bad things happening. That's why I do want to get the shot but in the tail. I had read about an incident  on this sight from a girl that her cat scratched a vet and what they had to do was so terrible I don't even want to think about it. So I don't want anything like this to happen to any of my cats. 

 

[buffy2011]

Here is the AVMA information about injection-site cancers with links to more info: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/rbbroch.aspx

And here's the links (it's a PDF) to state laws (keep in mind that local ordinances may be stricter; state laws are the minimum): https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/rabies-vaccination.aspx

The vet can't make you vaccinate your pet, even if it's the law. They might refuse to see your pet, but they can't report you or have you arrested or anything like that. If they do refuse to see an unvaccinated pet, look for another vet. Now, if you have a bite incident with an unvaccinated pet, you might have legal trouble. Soo you just have to decide what kind of chances your pets have of ever having a bite incident with a child or a stranger.

Personally, I vaccinate my cats once, or twice if they're little kittens when I get them, then never again if I can help it. I do keep the dogs legal because dogs are more likely to have contact with the public.

I read the information on the rabies by state, but I am not clear on something. Years ago I remember you got your animal a rabies vaccination and it was for 3 years. Now I do remember this vet that said my cat had to have its rabies shot said it was for 1 year. Are vets different? Are the laws different in states? I need to find this out because the less vaccination or chemicals I put into my animals the better off they will be. 

 

[zoneout]

Originally Posted by buffy2011  

 I seem to have this same problem with this vet that I just went to. They are the ones that said my cat needed her rabies shot and said it was the law and  when they took her to try to get some urine from her for a UTI infection they gave her the shot. I didn't refuse because I thought maybe they were going to turn me into someone.  So I don't know where they gave her the shot or what actually they gave her. Because she isn't up to date with all these other shots they want  to give her so who knows what they do when they take your cat into another room. But I am going to start standing may ground from now on and I'm not letting my animal out of my sight and if they want to do something to her in another room I am going with her. Its my animal and I make the decisions not them.  These vets are out for quantity not quality. Like you said as many as they can push threw.  I come out from having an animal at the vets and I have all kind of medicine waiting for me to pay for. I don't even know what he prescribed and what it is going to do. Putting chemicals into an animal is a bad thing. Some of these medicines are really bad for animals.  And then to find out the medicine didn't work and they want me to come back and give me some more medicine. Needless to say I quit using this vet but I needed them in a real hurry for my cat and this rabies shot thing happened. But I will not use them again. I'm starting to read alot about holistic vets. I am very interested in them. My animals are ok right now but if there is something out there to keep there immune system strong I want to know so I can give it to the. And I do understand that if someone gets bit and my cat isn't up to date with a rabies shot there is going to be some bad things happening. That's why I do want to get the shot but in the tail. I had read about an incident  on this sight from a girl that her cat scratched a vet and what they had to do was so terrible I don't even want to think about it. So I don't want anything like this to happen to any of my cats. 

Yeah, I know.  It`s really, really bad - at least in my experience.    Like you, I invariably get handed some meds with incomplete instructions on how to use them.   Or worse, what danger signs to be aware of in case I notice them to call back.   My cat was given a subQ and had a giant swollen bubble when I got home.  Turned out to be normal but I never expected it and thought she burst a vein or something.  

I don`t think they teach them how to deal with the public (their customers) in Vet school.   Not that courtesy should really need to be taught in a classroom anyway.

The problem is it is very difficult to screen them before there is an emergency.   At that point you are pretty much at their mercy out of fear.

One thing I have done is joined Angie`s List and they do let you grade veterinarians.   It is not perfect but maybe is better than relying on luck of the draw.

 

[zoneout]

 
I read the information on the rabies by state, but I am not clear on something. Years ago I remember you got your animal a rabies vaccination and it was for 3 years. Now I do remember this vet that said my cat had to have its rabies shot said it was for 1 year. Are vets different? Are the laws different in states? I need to find this out because the less vaccination or chemicals I put into my animals the better off they will be. 

As I understand it, it goes by how long the shot is biologically considered effective for.  This would be established by the manufacturer.   I guess different manufactures make vaccines that vary in how long they last.   

 

[Willowy]

Excellent info.  Thank you.  The problem I have is that the vets I have run into tend to tell me what they did after they already did it so I have no say beforehand.   Its very frustrating.   They want to get thru patients as quickly as possible - so they have methods of avoiding conversations - like sending in techs to discuss matters.

Hmm, well, I guess, what are you taking the cat in for? Like, when I take a pet in, I say "we're here for x reason" and that's what we do. Also, do they take the cat out of the room? I wouldn't allow that. If they start to do something that I don't recognize, I ask them what they're doing. Same with people doctors---it's just part of being an empowered patient (or owner of a patient). Don't let them run roughshod over you. I don't have a problem discussing things with a tech, just so they understand that some things aren't happening.

 

[Willowy]

As I understand it, it goes by how long the shot is biologically considered effective for.  This would be established by the manufacturer.   I guess different manufactures make vaccines that vary in how long they last.   

it's not really about biological efficacy or how long a vaccine lasts. It's about what the manufacturer labeled the product as and what steps they took to get it approved. If they never seek approval for 3-year use they won't get it. And the "1-year" rabies vaccine and the "3-year" rabies vaccine are the same product with different labels. Except for Purevax--that's currently only approved for 1-year use, but they have started the process to seek approval for 3-year use.

If you look into immunology, there's no reason for any vaccine against viruses not to confer immunity for at least several years. Vaccines against bacterial infections are less effective.

 

[zoneout]

Hmm, well, I guess, what are you taking the cat in for? Like, when I take a pet in, I say "we're here for x reason" and that's what we do. Also, do they take the cat out of the room? I wouldn't allow that. If they start to do something that I don't recognize, I ask them what they're doing. Same with people doctors---it's just part of being an empowered patient (or owner of a patient). Don't let them run roughshod over you. I don't have a problem discussing things with a tech, just so they understand that some things aren't happening.

Well yes, I see your point if I`m taking the cat to get his nails trimmed or something simple.   But when the cat is sick and you don`t know why - it`s not that easy.   Especially the first time around.    If I ever - God forbid - have to go through the same situation with my next cat I will be better prepared to know what to expect and what to allow and not allow.

 

[Willowy]

Nobody should ever ever vaccinate a sick cat (or dog or human, etc.). Vets and vet techs should know this. If you need proof of this for your vet, point out the instructions on the vaccine vial--- "for use in healthy animals". Vaccines cannot confer proper immunity if the immune system is otherwise occupied. Basically, a vaccine given when someone is sick is useless.

This is why the pediatrician will send someone home if their kid shows up for a vaccine appointment with a fever.

 

[catsallaround]

I always stress that ANY treatment/procedures need to be cleared and that I refuse to pay for ones that are not.  I think they fall into routine of what they need/want to do vs what owner wants and need to keep them in check at times but mainly they are great.  I also stress to do test at a time if our answer could be had with a simple test that seems most likely start there vs doing ALL at once for time/convenience.  I have many cats and I know it may take more time but I stress to them I am fine waiting and if they need room I can wait in waiting room or my car if it is nice enough out.  

Far as the sub q that was most likely a slip up of them dealing with it so often they did not think to tell you that the bubble is normal.  

 

[buffy2011]

Nobody should ever ever vaccinate a sick cat (or dog or human, etc.). Vets and vet techs should know this. If you need proof of this for your vet, point out the instructions on the vaccine vial--- "for use in healthy animals". Vaccines cannot confer proper immunity if the immune system is otherwise occupied. Basically, a vaccine given when someone is sick is useless.

This is why the pediatrician will send someone home if their kid shows up for a vaccine appointment with a fever.

Just curious on your comment. I had taken my cat to the vets for a supposedly UTI infection and that's when they made me give her a rabies shot because she wasn't up to date. So are you saying I could have refused that shot? They gave me pain medicine because they said she was in alot of pain and then to give her that rabies shot really made me mad.   And get this. They couldn't get a urine sample from her so I said I would take her home and see if I could get one. But when I was ready to leave the vets they had two medicines for me. So after I got home I was furious so I called them back and asked them how they could treat the cats problems when they don't know the cats problems, so to  me I was wasting my money. So the owner called me back right away and said from the symptoms I described that is what they would prescribe for her anyhow. but don't give her the medicine until I get the urine sample. This was an emergency so I had to use this vet but I finally have learned my lesson, never again. I still ended up wasting money. They gave me this bag probably as big as a bean bag of some kind of sand for my cat to pee in. It wasn't happening. She wouldn't even go near it.  My other question is why does the manufacturer make a vaccine for 1 year if they can do it for 3?

 

[Willowy]

So are you saying I could have refused that shot?

Legally speaking, yes, you can refuse anything. The vet might have refused to treat your cat if you refused it, though.

Antibiotics also interfere with a cat's body developing proper immunity in response to a vaccine.

My other question is why does the manufacturer make a vaccine for 1 year if they can do it for 3?

Money.

 

[catsallaround]

When push comes to shove I have not heard of a vet refusing care on the spot for lack of rabies shot. I have had a 10 minute debate on the rare risks of what COULD happen but held my ground and was told to sign a refusal statement.  I was told at another place that they could not take my cat in if he was sick for care but that also was a bluff as when it came to it they gladly took him in for few days stay at over 1k.  My response was if vaccines are so good if he is sick he is at NO risk to the others as they are all up to date and HE is at risk.  I even said if there is a younger cat to put him with the small dogs.  I visited him and he was with the cats.

 

[stewball]

The rabies injection is law in my country but none of my cats have ever been vaccinated for. My vets decision.
She said as they don't go out they don't need it. She also gives them the minimum shots she can. And she injects near the rump.

 

[cat angel]

Hello dear cat mommy, hope you found the right vaccine and the right vet for you furbabies, I am reaching out to you because I also have a 13 year old tomcat and I will have to travel with him and for that I am forced to do the rabies vaccine along with the international microchip. The USDA is not having any mercy on elder cats. Please advise and help me, I already lost one furbaby and I feel it was the vaccine that they gave him that triggered the renal failure and now this second furbaby is already vaccinated a year and half ago but they said it has to be updated and to me this is way to soon. An old cat immune system is not strong enough to deal with the rabies vaccine and especially if the vaccine it has adjuvants in it. Please HELP IF YOU CAN, thank you!!!! 

 

[karsmitty]

No, no, no, this idea of giving rabies vaccine in the tail of an animal is incorrect. Please read this article from a holistic feline vet about her thoughts on vaccines & your comment regarding vaccines given in the tail: http://catinfo.org/?link=vaccines

 

[buffy2011]

Question for karsmitty,  I tried to read as much of the article that you had posted, and I glanced threw the rest. Where in this article does it say that a vet can't give a cat the rabies shot in the tail. I am very interested in this because I myself think this would be better in case of a problem then they would only have to remove the tail and the cat has a fighting chance. But this is only my opinion so I am interested in why this isn't a good idea. So can you lead me in the direction so I can read about this, I would appreciate it.