Rabbit Feeders

[MtoSmf]

Hello,

Sorry if this has been answered before, but I couldn't really find anything recent.

There is a specialized butcher in my area that sells ground whole rabbit for pets by the pound, and I plan to start preparing it according to Dr. Pierson's recipe. There seems to be a variation between the catinfo and catnutrition sites, and I just wanted to see what others recommend.

Am I correct that if it is a whole carcass ground rabbit that I need not include chicken liver?
Is it recommended to still add chicken hearts?

I plan to use half whole carcass ground rabbit and half boneless chunked chicken in accordance with the 50/50 bone ratio.

Thanks,

Matthew

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm bumping this for you...

 

[lalagimp]

While I can't speak for both sites, I did a conference with Dr Pierson and told her how I did it while following her site instructions, and she said I was fine.
I use whole ground rabbit (less the fur), turkey thigh, and then the supplement and fish oil slurry.

 

[Furballsmom]

sabrinah , would there be any value to you in talking with Dr Pierson or a nutritionist at the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (http://www.acvn.org/)?
I won't bug you anymore after this, I promise , but I was thinking about you and your furbaby...

 

[MtoSmf]

While I can't speak for both sites, I did a conference with Dr Pierson and told her how I did it while following her site instructions, and she said I was fine.
I use whole ground rabbit (less the fur), turkey thigh, and then the supplement and fish oil slurry.

Thanks! Would you mind telling me here or in a PM what your breakdown is with the ground rabbit and turkey? Do you do a 50/50 like one of the sites say?

 

[MtoSmf]

sabrinah , would there be any value to you in talking with Dr Pierson or a nutritionist at the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (http://www.acvn.org/)?
I won't bug you anymore after this, I promise , but I was thinking about you and your furbaby...

Was this meant for me?

 

[lalagimp]

Thanks! Would you mind telling me here or in a PM what your breakdown is with the ground rabbit and turkey? Do you do a 50/50 like one of the sites say?

It was 2:1 on bone in meat: bone less meat but we changed it to 1:1 because Tommy has issues in his bladder, so we're doing less minerals/calcium.
Basically at this time I'm doing 9 lbs rabbit and 9 lbs turkey thighs with the bones cut out and all the skins left on. I'm terrible with math, but I'm assuming we're around 7% bone that way instead of the standard 10%.

 

[Tobermory]

I think it would depend on the meat/bone/organ balance of the grind you’re using. Do they tell you? You want an 80/10/10 ratio. I use Hare Today’s ground rabbit. According to HT’s website, it’s 75% meat, 15% bone and 10% organ. So to get the bone percentage down to 10%, I add boneless chicken thighs. And because I’m using Dr. Pierson’s recipe, I want to keep my batches to multiples of three (her three pounds of meat) so I can be sure I’m using the right amount of supplements. So by the time I add the right amount of boneless to get 10% bone, I have to add in a little more liver to get the organ percentage back up to 10%.

Is that confusing?

I use this online calculator to help me determine if my meat/bone/organ ratio is appropriate: Dilute Bone Content

 

[sabrinah]

sabrinah , would there be any value to you in talking with Dr Pierson or a nutritionist at the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (http://www.acvn.org/)?
I won't bug you anymore after this, I promise , but I was thinking about you and your furbaby...

I really do appreciate your concern! I would love to but don't consultations cost money? I'm truly and absolutely completely broke. Well, soon to be anyway after the vet appointment and tuition. I need to see if I can get my credit limit raised... I follow the directions for Alnutrin so nothing should be out of balance with the food, and the extra fat should have made it more filling. I know it's not health related because she's not starving with canned and has had everything checked at the vet. It's just odd.

I did find this website though when I was looking through the ACVN directory and it looks like it could be useful for anyone that makes food
BalanceIT.com
I haven't looked through it myself because it's finals time and I'm too dead inside for it right now, so I won't be getting around to it for a couple weeks.

 

[Furballsmom]

Was this meant for me?

With no intent of hijacking the thread's discussion but because feeding raw can be challenging, I wanted to ensure dissemination of information. Hopefully you find some useful info on the ACVN directory or the balanceit site that sabrinah mentioned

it's finals time

and a kiss on your furbaby's nose.

 

[MtoSmf]

...not directly, but in sort of a sideways way , with no intent of hijacking the thread's discussion. Because feeding raw can be challenging and I wanted to ensure dissemination of information, --if you find any useful info on the ACVN directory or the balanceit site that sabrinah mentioned, then absolutely

and a kiss on your furbaby's nose.

Thanks. I was actually considering a consultation. I may still do it. Thanks again.

 

[MtoSmf]

I think it would depend on the meat/bone/organ balance of the grind you’re using. Do they tell you? You want an 80/10/10 ratio. I use Hare Today’s ground rabbit. According to HT’s website, it’s 75% meat, 15% bone and 10% organ. So to get the bone percentage down to 10%, I add boneless chicken thighs. And because I’m using Dr. Pierson’s recipe, I want to keep my batches to multiples of three (her three pounds of meat) so I can be sure I’m using the right amount of supplements. So by the time I add the right amount of boneless to get 10% bone, I have to add in a little more liver to get the organ percentage back up to 10%.

Is that confusing?

I use this online calculator to help me determine if my meat/bone/organ ratio is appropriate: Dilute Bone Content

I think it would depend on the meat/bone/organ balance of the grind you’re using. Do they tell you? You want an 80/10/10 ratio. I use Hare Today’s ground rabbit. According to HT’s website, it’s 75% meat, 15% bone and 10% organ. So to get the bone percentage down to 10%, I add boneless chicken thighs. And because I’m using Dr. Pierson’s recipe, I want to keep my batches to multiples of three (her three pounds of meat) so I can be sure I’m using the right amount of supplements. So by the time I add the right amount of boneless to get 10% bone, I have to add in a little more liver to get the organ percentage back up to 10%.

Is that confusing?

I use this online calculator to help me determine if my meat/bone/organ ratio is appropriate: Dilute Bone Content

Thanks! This does make sense, but I'm bad with the percentages so I would wonder how you bring the organ back up to 10% after bringing the bone down to 10% I get what needs to be done, but my mind works more in straight pounds and ounces. I'll have to check what the meat/bone/organ ratio is.

 

[Tobermory]

That’s where the calculator comes in. It takes the weight you have, the percentage of meat/bone/organ, and then calculates what you need to get to 80/10/10. If you can find the ratios from your local supplier, plug the percentages into the calculator and play around with weight. Let me know if you run into trouble. I always check my calculations with The Spouse who happens to have majored in math in college.

 

[sophie1]

Ground rabbit is typically 15% bone and I doubt your supplier will have any more specific numbers. It will likely vary a bit just as is the case in any unprocessed food. I think you'll find that your cats can handle natural variation...they'd never have survived as a species if that weren't the case!

To get to 10% bone, add 1/2 lb boneless meat for each 1 lb ground rabbit. I use whatever I have on hand - for example I made a mix this morning using duck hearts. More typically I use chicken or turkey thigh meat. The organs in the rabbit let you get away without adding extra liver. Note that this is slightly more meat than Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for on average, but she provides a range of 3/4 - 1 lb meat per 2 - 2-1/4 lb rabbit which includes this ratio.

If you can buy pre-ground meat from the same butcher that's probably easiest, but if you buy from the grocery be sure NOT to buy pre-ground. Cut it up with scissors and get your cats used to eating chunks.

 

[Tobermory]

To get to 10% bone, add 1/2 lb boneless meat for each 1 lb ground rabbit. I use whatever I have on hand - for example I made a mix this morning using duck hearts. More typically I use chicken or turkey thigh meat. The organs in the rabbit let you get away without adding extra liver. Note that this is slightly more meat than Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for on average, but she provides a range of 3/4 - 1 lb meat per 2 - 2-1/4 lb rabbit which includes this ratio.

That’s pretty much where I ended up with my Hare Today ground rabbit. I use two pounds of rabbit to one pound of boneless to bring down the bone content to about 10 percent. One of my three seems more prone to constipation so the 10 target is better for us. And then I add one to one and a half ounces of liver to up the organ content a little.

I also use HT’s turkey grind which is 68/27/5. That one takes a bit more fiddling.

There’s a commercial raw from a company called Smallbatch that has single protein frozen chubs to which you add your own supplements. I queried them about their ratios and they responded that all of their single protein varieties (which they call blends for some reason) are already 80/10/10.

 

[MtoSmf]

Thanks for all the helpful tips! It helps. So it looks like my butcher's whole rabbit grind includes only the liver and the heart. I know this means I do add the lite salt since there is no thyroid gland. Should I be supplementing any other organs that are not included in the grind?