questions about mixed wet & raw diet

[irinasak]

Thank you for you replies.

Harley and Amelie eat chunks. As I am currently clicker-training them, I also use raw as treats for training. I will have to film Harley one day, he is so funny when he growls while eating.

With Sophie I am just going to have to try more, I guess.

 

[irinasak]

Just wanted to give a quick update, as I am thinking others that are dealing with something similar might find it useful.

These past couple of weeks Harley and Amelie had 3 meals/week of raw, as the meals are not balanced I am trying to keep them around 15% of the total diet. I will order in January something like Alnutrin and will start increasing. They had chicken breast, chicken drums, chicken hearts, pork muscle and turkey breast, all chuncks. They did not eat the chicken once and I am sure it was something wrong with the meat. The other times they liked it and all was fine in the litterbox.

Sophie is special, as always. Although she received raw every time Harley and Amelie received, she refused it most of the time. As she takes a bite or two, I am hopefull. On the other hand, she is going through a phase when she has a healthy appetite again. Maybe it's the cold weather, maybe it's the probiotic I am giving to her for a few days now, but she is eating better now.

Last evening I gave her some boiled chicken and she seemed to enjoy it. Maybe she prefers home cooked?

Anyway, I am feeling positive that I will eventually wean her off kibble...

 

[laralove]

... They had chicken breast, chicken drums, chicken hearts, pork muscle and turkey breast, all chuncks. ...

Sophie is special, as always. Although she received raw every time Harley and Amelie received, she refused it most of the time. As she takes a bite or two, I am hopefull. ...

Last evening I gave her some boiled chicken and she seemed to enjoy it. Maybe she prefers home cooked?

Have you tried giving Sophie raw that's more finely chopped? Maybe she isn't ready for chunks yet. Oliver won't eat raw that I don't dice, but I'm going to work him up to bigger pieces as we move forward. I'm on a similar track as you, working toward a mostly raw diet but trying to get everything in order to ensure balance.

 

[irinasak]

 
Have you tried giving Sophie raw that's more finely chopped?

After I read your question, not having the answer yet, I gave Sophie a bit of meat from the drumstick and a gizzard, all finely chopped, and she ate it all! I know it might not sound much, but it is a lot for her! 

(no need to mention the other two cats, I am pretty sure they would eat an elephant given the opportunity).

 

[jclark]

My cats get raw for their AM feeding and canned for afternoon and evening.

 

[laralove]

After I read your question, not having the answer yet, I gave Sophie a bit of meat from the drumstick and a gizzard, all finely chopped, and she ate it all! I know it might not sound much, but it is a lot for her! 

(no need to mention the other two cats, I am pretty sure they would eat an elephant given the opportunity).

 Awesome! Yes, that's just how it was for Oliver. Wouldn't touch bigger pieces but scarfed down the little pieces. And then he'd beg for more. Still does! I'm transitioning him to all raw this week or next. So excited. 

 

[irinasak]

I am in need of advice and opinions again.

This just arrived yesterday: http://www.zooplus.com/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155901

I ordered it because I want to increase the raw meals for Harley and Amelie (they have 3 meals/week of raw, which makes about 15% of their diet). But now I am scared that if I add Felini and they still have the majority of their diet complete wet food, I am overdosing them with vitamins? 

My idea is that I make the raw meals complete by adding Felini (which, as far as I can tell, is sort of like Alnutrin) and still feeding complete wet food. Can this work?

 

[laralove]

It shouldn't be a problem. You're adding so much supplement per ounce or gram of meat, so each individual meal you serve of raw will be balanced. 

 

[irinasak]

IMG_20140123_200228.jpg

• irinasak
• Jan 23, 2014

What you see here is Sophie eating chicken breast and chicken heart topped with freeze dried chicken topped with crushed kibbles. She is driving me crazy. Two nights ago she wouldn't eat the chicken with the supplements, so I gave her another portion without supplements and she ate that. Tonight there were no supplements in her bowl, but I guess she doesn't like hearts.

No picture of Harley and Amelie, they ate too fast lol.

 

[laralove]

When you're mixing with supplements, are you following a specific recipe? 

 

[irinasak]

When you're mixing with supplements, are you following a specific recipe? 

The supplements I am talking about here is Felini. I mix following the giudelines, 0.8 grams of Felini with 2 tablespoons of water and 65 grams of raw (0.02 oz of Felini with 2.29 oz of raw).http://www.zooplus.com/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155901
Harey and Amelie both take lisyne and lactoferrin and Sophie gets slippery elm bark and probiotics, but I mix those with canned food.

I want to supplement the raw with Felini to make it a complete balanced meal.

ETA: I am currently giving them the following raw: chicken: breast, gizzards, hearts and liver; and pork muscle or other lean meat from pork.

 

[laralove]

Ah, okay. Have you tried mixing it with water and making sort of a gravy to mix with the raw?

 

[irinasak]

Yes. Harley and Amelie eat it with no problems. Sophie did not touch it.

She just has to be different. Sorry for being frustrated but this morning I gave her THREE different wet foods, one by one, until she decided to eat the third. And tonight she ate with no problems the first food offered in the morning, food she did not want to touch then she ate just fine in the evening. I just don't get her.

 

[irinasak]

Happy to report some progress for Sophie: she ate almost all her portion of raw today, only sprinkled with freeze dried chicken. I am happy because for the first time ever she started eating when she had the bowl in front of her, which means she is starting to see raw as food. I haven't tried giving her the supplement, but I am happy as she also tried some freeze dried duck and freeze dried beef, proteins she had no interest in before. And also she doesn't have any kibbles the days she is having raw. Yupppiii (I would put some emoticons but I am on the mobile version

 

[vball91]

Happy to report some progress for Sophie: she ate almost all her portion of raw today, only sprinkled with freeze dried chicken. I am happy because for the first time ever she started eating when she had the bowl in front of her, which means she is starting to see raw as food. I haven't tried giving her the supplement, but I am happy as she also tried some freeze dried duck and freeze dried beef, proteins she had no interest in before. And also she doesn't have any kibbles the days she is having raw. Yupppiii (I would put some emoticons but I am on the mobile version

Hooray! I will add some emoticons for you.

 

 

[irinasak]

 
Hooray! I will add some emoticons for you.

 

Thank you!! Today we are adding some chicken liver *fingers crossed*

 

[satori]

The supplements I am talking about here is Felini. I mix following the giudelines, 0.8 grams of Felini with 2 tablespoons of water and 65 grams of raw (0.02 oz of Felini with 2.29 oz of raw).http://www.zooplus.com/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155901
Harey and Amelie both take lisyne and lactoferrin and Sophie gets slippery elm bark and probiotics, but I mix those with canned food.

I want to supplement the raw with Felini to make it a complete balanced meal.

ETA: I am currently giving them the following raw: chicken: breast, gizzards, hearts and liver; and pork muscle or other lean meat from pork.

I have three cats aged 13, 15 and 16 months. At least 2/3 of their diet has been chunks of meat supplemented with Felini complete, since they were about 16 weeks. They have done really well on it. The other third of their diet is either chunks of meat with TC Feline or pouches of wet food from zooplus (mostly CatzFinefoods). I believe TC Feline to be a superior product to Felini complete but it is very expensive.

I use a variety of meats but prefer a fattier tougher cut so they have to work on it; pork shoulder and lamb neck go down well but their favorite by a long way is pig cheek. I like to go for 8-10% fat content and if I feed a leaner cut, such as turkey I add a bit of goose fat to the recipe.

Felini does not produce a particularly micro-nutritionally rich diet and I tend to overdose vs the given recipe. When feeding pork or chicken I add about 20% more than directed. Btw, this shifts the ca/p ratio to about 1.15 vs the 1/1 that the standard recipe would derive. I also add krill oil at the rate of 0.15% (unless I am feeding wild or pasture fed meat) so as to shift the n-6/n-3 fatty acid ratio closer to a natural diet. For the price, I think felini is very hard to better.

 

[irinasak]

I have three cats aged 13, 15 and 16 months. At least 2/3 of their diet has been chunks of meat supplemented with Felini complete, since they were about 16 weeks. They have done really well on it. The other third of their diet is either chunks of meat with TC Feline or pouches of wet food from zooplus (mostly CatzFinefoods). I believe TC Feline to be a superior product to Felini complete but it is very expensive.

I use a variety of meats but prefer a fattier tougher cut so they have to work on it; pork shoulder and lamb neck go down well but their favorite by a long way is pig cheek. I like to go for 8-10% fat content and if I feed a leaner cut, such as turkey I add a bit of goose fat to the recipe.

Felini does not produce a particularly micro-nutritionally rich diet and I tend to overdose vs the given recipe. When feeding pork or chicken I add about 20% more than directed. Btw, this shifts the ca/p ratio to about 1.15 vs the 1/1 that the standard recipe would derive. I also add krill oil at the rate of 0.15% (unless I am feeding wild or pasture fed meat) so as to shift the n-6/n-3 fatty acid ratio closer to a natural diet. For the price, I think felini is very hard to better.

Thank you for the info.  I have not heard of TC Feline before, but I read their site and they deliver to my country.

I am not giving the recommended dose of Felini yet as Sophie doesn't eat it at all, Amelie is reluctant to eat if there's too much slush (Felini+ water), only Harley is ok with it.

Liver was a total failure for Sophie. She didn't even take one bite.

 

[satori]

Thank you for the info.  I have not heard of TC Feline before, but I read their site and they deliver to my country.

I am not giving the recommended dose of Felini yet as Sophie doesn't eat it at all, Amelie is reluctant to eat if there's too much slush (Felini+ water), only Harley is ok with it.

Liver was a total failure for Sophie. She didn't even take one bite.

Aha. Amelie is just like my cats. Felini should be approached a bit differently in that case. I add just enough hot water to make the meat wet (some cuts of meat will even absorb the water). I toss the meat to get the chunks uniformly wet and the sprinkle the Felini very finely over the top. Then I toss it for a good couple of minutes and the felini basically disappears; there will be no gravy on the plate. Don't worry about adding so little water. All you really 'need' is enough to compensate for blood loss. Of the top of my head the moisture content of supermarket pork is about mid to high 60's % and that of a live mouse about mid to high 70's %. Adding water to just 10% of the meat weight will get you there; more is a bonus.

TC Feline may be a challenge. It is less concentrated than Felini, you use much more of it and it takes quite a bit of water to get it to form a nice suspension. You will be serving chunks of meat in a thick gravy, basically. That said it does seem to have a compelling flavour. Mine go for it. Nevertheless I still takes steps to reduce the gravy volume. I make meal sized portions with TC Feline, vacuum seal them and refrigerate for 12 hours before serving. The meat sucks in a surprisingly large amount of the gravy this way. (Me, obsessed - no )

Final point. I guess you know but, just in case, you shouldn't add liver to the mix when supplementing with Felini. Heart yes, liver no.

 

[irinasak]

Aha. Amelie is just like my cats. Felini should be approached a bit differently in that case. I add just enough hot water to make the meat wet (some cuts of meat will even absorb the water). I toss the meat to get the chunks uniformly wet and the sprinkle the Felini very finely over the top. Then I toss it for a good couple of minutes and the felini basically disappears; there will be no gravy on the plate. Don't worry about adding so little water. All you really 'need' is enough to compensate for blood loss. Of the top of my head the moisture content of supermarket pork is about mid to high 60's % and that of a live mouse about mid to high 70's %. Adding water to just 10% of the meat weight will get you there; more is a bonus.

TC Feline may be a challenge. It is less concentrated than Felini, you use much more of it and it takes quite a bit of water to get it to form a nice suspension. You will be serving chunks of meat in a thick gravy, basically. That said it does seem to have a compelling flavour. Mine go for it. Nevertheless I still takes steps to reduce the gravy volume. I make meal sized portions with TC Feline, vacuum seal them and refrigerate for 12 hours before serving. The meat sucks in a surprisingly large amount of the gravy this way. (Me, obsessed - no

)

Final point. I guess you know but, just in case, you shouldn't add liver to the mix when supplementing with Felini. Heart yes, liver no.

Thank you so much for your reply, it was an eye opener. I have totally overlooked the liver issue. I don't know if I should be glad as Sophie doesn't eat liver, or sad as Harley and Amelie like it. I guess I will just complicate my life more and not give Sophie liver, but give to Harley and Amelie and not supplement with Felini those meals.

Thursday I was away for 13 hours and skipped a meal (that happens like once a month), so when I served raw Sophie not only ate her 2 ounces of chicken breast, but also one whole chicken heart!

No supplements and the chicken was ground (this probably means that she would rather eat ground than chunks), but I am feeling quite hopeful that sometime, eventually, we will go all raw.