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Question about calicoes
- Thread starter kittydad
- Start Date
Learning and studying genetics is not an overnite process. One of the reasons I got into rexes was that I could learn about genetics and colors. I had Russian Blues - they only come in one color - blue!
So the rexes gave me the chance to learn about color predictions, etc. Once you learn the basics, you can predict the colors you get or it helps you sex kittens (calico - female, etc.). I knew that if I bred a tortie to a black, then any red kittens would be male
I find it fun and interesting. But mother nature still does surprises you can't figure out - like Godiva's Tobie being a chocolate ticked tabby out of a blue and maybe chocolate tabby father - we still don't know (also Tobie's sister being a SILVER).
And my own black/white Ling - she's a genetic impossibility! Born a blue tabby, then changed to blue point tabby, then to seal point blue tabby, and finally the black/white you see. Genetically this was an impossible thing to happen. But it did.
So the rexes gave me the chance to learn about color predictions, etc. Once you learn the basics, you can predict the colors you get or it helps you sex kittens (calico - female, etc.). I knew that if I bred a tortie to a black, then any red kittens would be male
I find it fun and interesting. But mother nature still does surprises you can't figure out - like Godiva's Tobie being a chocolate ticked tabby out of a blue and maybe chocolate tabby father - we still don't know (also Tobie's sister being a SILVER).
And my own black/white Ling - she's a genetic impossibility! Born a blue tabby, then changed to blue point tabby, then to seal point blue tabby, and finally the black/white you see. Genetically this was an impossible thing to happen. But it did.
Because there are recessive genes involved, grandparents, etc. CAN play a role in what you get.
I do know (and maybe it was the case with Godiva's cats) that chocolate is recessive. A rex breeder friend got a chocolate rex from a breeding that on the surface was "impossible" - she traced it back EIGHT generations to find that both sides had some chocolate - and it took that long for a recessive gene to show.
Recessive genes are forever
Basically you need to know that mom gives color to both sons and daughters. Fathers can only give color to their daughters.
I do know (and maybe it was the case with Godiva's cats) that chocolate is recessive. A rex breeder friend got a chocolate rex from a breeding that on the surface was "impossible" - she traced it back EIGHT generations to find that both sides had some chocolate - and it took that long for a recessive gene to show.
Recessive genes are forever
Basically you need to know that mom gives color to both sons and daughters. Fathers can only give color to their daughters.
OK here's an interesting one that maybe you can help explain, because I have a hard time getting my head around it! Radar is black & white the same as his dad, from what I recall he has more white than his dad does. His mum was a red point varient cornish rex, with some white on her toes. His 3 brothers were all black and white but with less white than him, and his 1 sister was I think a solid tortie (it was nap time when we saw them all and we left her to snooze because we wanted a boy, so it's possible she could have had a white belly just that we didn't see it). His mum only had the opportunity to mate with the one male.
Sonic is very easy by comparison, but Radar's colour genetics give me a headache.
If there were more then one male that was black/white (like Radar) then mom was not a red point. She HAD to have been a tortie point and there was no black showing. Its possible
The female tortie is correct (black from dad, red from mom). Am willing to bet if you really look at the mom carefully - somewhere there is a black spot - maybe on the toe, maybe on the tail. And probably that black is covered over by the white on the toe! So you would not see the black, but she genetically is a tortie point.
I know its possible because there was an exact case like this of a "red" rex female. She was shown as red tabby - no problem. However, when she was bred to a black male, there was tortie females (correct) and black males! They were shocked - after all she was registered and championed as a red tabby.
So looking very carefully over ever inch of the female, they finally found one tiny spot of black on a toe! Genetically this was a tortie female - not a red tabby. So they had to re-register her as a tortie and she lost the championship title. Because there was not enough black to really look like a tortie, she could not compete as one.
One tortie female I had, was born all black, except for one tiny spot of red near her tail. She later got more red thru the coat but I had marked her as black initially.
The female tortie is correct (black from dad, red from mom). Am willing to bet if you really look at the mom carefully - somewhere there is a black spot - maybe on the toe, maybe on the tail. And probably that black is covered over by the white on the toe! So you would not see the black, but she genetically is a tortie point.
I know its possible because there was an exact case like this of a "red" rex female. She was shown as red tabby - no problem. However, when she was bred to a black male, there was tortie females (correct) and black males! They were shocked - after all she was registered and championed as a red tabby.
So looking very carefully over ever inch of the female, they finally found one tiny spot of black on a toe! Genetically this was a tortie female - not a red tabby. So they had to re-register her as a tortie and she lost the championship title. Because there was not enough black to really look like a tortie, she could not compete as one.
One tortie female I had, was born all black, except for one tiny spot of red near her tail. She later got more red thru the coat but I had marked her as black initially.
Thank you, that makes perfect sense! She could quite possibly have had tiny amounts of black in with the red, she looked red to the eye, but I did not go examining her for any tiny black speckles!
Many thanks for that explanation, it has eased my confusion! I'm a bit odd, I can spend ages wondering about things like this
I have a fairly good basic understanding of genetic inheritance as I've studied biology at Advanced level, although many years ago and this one was stumping me, but it looks as though the case can now be closed
Many thanks for that explanation, it has eased my confusion! I'm a bit odd, I can spend ages wondering about things like this
The problem with the bicolor (white) gene is that the white masks the other colors so unless you know the parent's colors you can have anything under the white markings.
Lily (my white rex - Spooky's sister) was an odd-eye white. BUT she really was an odd-eye TORTIE under all that white. Her background was red and black from parents and grandparents. She was also carrying the pointed gene from her grandmother (tortie point).
Lily (my white rex - Spooky's sister) was an odd-eye white. BUT she really was an odd-eye TORTIE under all that white. Her background was red and black from parents and grandparents. She was also carrying the pointed gene from her grandmother (tortie point).
I do love the 'randomness' of bicolours. I did want a bicolour oriental, but having talked to oriental breeders who are both for and against, I am unsure about whether it is such a great idea for the breed in the longer term. So I'm a bit of a fence-sitter where that one is concerned, although I do think they are very striking! I do know that if I were ever to have the time, space, and resources to dedicate to breeding (highly unlikely, but I can dream), it would be with a breed with a wide range of colours - just because I find colour genetics so fascinating!
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
She looks more like a typical calico to me
Awww...thanksOriginally Posted by laureen227
and a very pretty one - i love her black eye ring!
