Psychotic Episodes

[hierophantria]

I'm having a major problem with one of my cats, my youngest, and I would love any help I can get. Miewjhur (female colorpoint) is roughly nine months old and I've had her since she was somewhere around six weeks (insanely early, I know). It took a while for both of my older cats - one eight (female), one seven (male) - to get used to her and now that everyone is getting along so well... she's apparently decided she hates me.

For the first three months of her life with me I brought her almost everywhere I went. I work for myself so I could take her with me in my vehicle and she became a wonderful road-kitty. When I was home I always monitored everyone's behavior, making sure my older two didn't beat her up. She followed me everywhere and cuddled with me every night as soon as she felt she could jump up on the bed. The vets have always said she was in great health after I got her through a treatment for the roundworms I unwittingly brought her home with. Flash forward to about a month ago.

I was clearing her off my bed so I could straighten blankets and get to sleep when she just seemed to lose her little furry mind. I went to pick her up and she fluffed, hissed and yelled as if all hell had broken lose and it did so very quickly. I didn't have a towel on hand so I went to take her by the scruff (she kicks like you wouldn't believe if you get her any other way) but she kept hissing and screaming. She started twisting and by the end of the melee I had her pinned under a blanket and my right forearm had a deep four inch long scratch that was bleeding heavily. My other two were yowling and pacing in the doorway. I wrapped her up and cradled her for a while but there was no calming her. I let her go and called it a night when I realized she was only getting worse.

Since then she's freaked out at least twice a week at very random times and scratching me up something fierce in the process. Tempest and Squall play with her but keep a distance, and these little episodes of hers are upsetting them to where the male is hiding and looking at me as if I've been making cat casseroles. Tonight has been the worst though and I am weighing the idea of returning her to the shelter.

I was walking along when I bent down to pet her and she freaked out once more. I hadn't surprised her but she puffed up, freaked and got low to the ground. I picked her up in yet another attempt to calm her and she just lost it. By the end of it I was peed on and even pooped on. All I've been doing is petting her, kissing the top of her head and cradling her to me to try to calm her. I put her in the office until I got cleaned up. The others are freaked out and yowling again. In trying to clean her up I got attacked again.

I love Miewjhur to pieces, like any proud parent I show off pictures of her to my friends when we go out but I just can't take this any more. My arms and hands are scarred up - seven on the left and eight in the right - and its seriously hurting my relationships with the other two cats. I've had cats my whole life but never one like this. I am at a loss. I don't want to give up but this is starting to take a toll on me. Help?

 

[otto]

Hello and welcome to TCS! I am sory you are having the problem with Miewjhur.

The first thing to do is to take her to the vet. This obviously is not normal behavior, she may be having some kind of brain seizures. She needs a complete check up, blood work, urinalysis, your vet may want to order an MRI.

My first thought was displaced aggression. This happens when the cat sees something that upsets her and she reacts negatively to all around her.

Another thought may be diet. Perhaps she is sensitive to something in the food you are feeding her. Some cats can't tolerate artificial things, and things like sodium nitrites, read the labels of what you are feeding.

It could also be a form of seizure activity. If possible, video tape some episodes for your vet to see what is happening.

Keep a log of them too, noting down everything that is going on around her when they happen.

Have you made any changes? New laundry detergent, new litter, new perfume, those plug in air fresheners?

 

[otto]

PS Hopefully you were just talking out of frustration, but please, please don't bring her back to the shelter. Pets are meant to be for life, not dumped when things get difficult.

Imagine what her life would be living in a cage in a strange scary place, unadoptable because of "behavior problems"

Miewjhur belongs to you, and relies on you to find out what's wrong and help her cope with it.

We will help, too.

 

[gingersmom]

Originally Posted by otto

Hello and welcome to TCS! I am sory you are having the problem with Miewjhur.

The first thing to do is to take her to the vet. This obviously is not normal behavior, she may be having some kind of brain seizures. She needs a complete check up, blood work, urinalysis, your vet may want to order an MRI.

My first thought was displaced aggression. This happens when the cat sees something that upsets her and she reacts negatively to all around her.

Another thought may be diet. Perhaps she is sensitive to something in the food you are feeding her. Some cats can't tolerate artificial things, and things like sodium nitrites, read the labels of what you are feeding.

It could also be a form of seizure activity. If possible, video tape some episodes for your vet to see what is happening.

Keep a log of them too, noting down everything that is going on around her when they happen.

Have you made any changes? New laundry detergent, new litter, new perfume, those plug in air fresheners?

to all of that and an additional piece of advice: PLEASE stop picking her up "to try to calm her!" She is already in an overstimulated state of mind at that point, and trying to scruff her, hold her, cuddle her or restrain her in ANY way at that point is only making things worse for you.

And again, please get her to the vet first and foremost. This could be a cry for help she isn't even aware she is making to you. I wish you the best; please do keep us posted!

 

[alicatjoy]

First off, welcome to TCS. And, secondly, I second most everything Otto has said.

Please take your kitty to the vet to rule out any possible health issues that could be triggering her behavior. I had a cat while growing up that had seizures and would become incredibly aggressive following them. I can't even count the number of times that the cat sent my father to the ER for stitches (I was very young when we had this cat so don't remember everything -- we're talking infant and up here). My grandmother also had a kitty that was an (at that point) undiagnosed diabetic and she, too, had periods of extreme aggression. So, just by my past experiences, I'd be suspect of something medically triggering the behavior first. For me, the first line of action would be a trip to the vet for a check-up and full blood panel. That way, you have some direction as far as how to proceed.

Unfortunately, there are way too many possibilities to list as to why Miewjhur is acting out. The best advice I have, aside from a vet trip, is to keep a detailed log of what occurs before, during, and after these "episodes." There may be something setting her off, but the only way to decipher what that may be is to take stock of everything going on in her life. While some kittens taken from their mother and siblings too early can have issues with displaced aggression, I'd look for all other possibilities before accepting that as the main cause for her behavior.

No matter what, I hope you will choose to stick it out for your kitty and work on what is triggering her behavior versus returning her to the shelter or rehoming her. It certainly appears that you adore her, so please do not give up on her. Miewjhur needs you...especially now. Something is going on and it's your responsibility to help figure out what that something is so that it can be resolved. Good luck to you and please keep us updated -- we are all here to help support you along the way.

 

[hierophantria]

If I wasn't the only one she was doing this to I'd be a little less worried. I have two house-mates and while they've both seen a few of these episodes, she's never done this with either of them. When given the chance she doesn't interact with them as much though. She waits outside the kitchen, the bedroom, and even the bathroom for me. She acts, well, like my other two in every other respect. Even this morning. She was waiting outsde my bedroom for me. I reached down and pet her, spoke softly to her, picked her up and within moments she started again, complete with hissing and attacking with the paws. She went from calm and mellow to hissing and growling. This is the most common form of aggression though there have been a few where she seems to have sought me out and then attacked. One of my house-mates was in so she picked her up to see if she would continue the behavior and no, she didn't. She stopped yelling and seemed resigned and though her tail was showing agitation, her body was fluid and relaxed.

As far as food goes they're all on Purina One. She'd been on nothing but their kitten formula until about two months ago when she decided to show more interest in the adult formulas that the other two were eating (a mix of indoor and salmon) so I started mixing a little of theirs into hers. Just as with my food, I read up on theirs. The other two are just fine and have never had behavioral problems of this nature.

There have been no changes to anything in the house, we're in a communal rut here and it works nicely. The litter has been Tidy Cats Power Blend for a couple years now and they've got three boxes that cleaned daily (every other if I'm gone on a trip).

So far as picking her up, I do so just as I would my other two. With Tempest, Squall, and any of my previous cats had been, for lack of a better phrase, over-stimulated from a play fight that had gotten out of hand or freaked out by any random number of things I would pick them up, speak softly to them, pet them while taking them to a separate area to calm down and they would be fine. They may not be calm but they never lashed out. They get set down onto a cat bed or onto a level of their climbing tree and after a while they're fine.

I'm taking her to a vet tomorrow and I'll get blood work done but I have to be honest, if they don't find anything wrong I'm not sure what I'll do. I've never had to take a pet back to the shelter, we've always been able to work through everything. I've had aggressive animals before but nothing like this. I know pets depend on us for everything, and I adore them all. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone more willing to do anything for their pet.

And before I even finished this she's back at my door, paws coming under to get my attention. I've never dreaded interacting with a pet but I'm starting to.

 

[momofmany]

This is not a behavior issue. This is a health issue. You MUST get her to the vet to find out what is going on with her. As others suggested, keep a detailed log of what happens before and after these episodes, and a video of her during them may help the vet. A cat doesn't suddenly act out like you are describing unless there is something physically wrong with them.

 

[otto]

Please don't compare her with your other two cats.

Each cat is an individual and will react individually to food, outside stimuli, etc.

I do find it telling that this started shortly after you switched her to the Purina ONE adult food. It is possible she is having a bad reaction to something in that food.

I hope you have a good vet, willing to go the distance and work with you, or send you to a specialist if it is needed.

Giving up on her should not be an option. You don't pass on your problems to someone else. She belongs to you, you deal, end of story.

Sorry to sound so blunt, but if you rehome her to someone who doesn't have the history with her, they are likely to toss her out on the street. If you put her in a shelter she will molder in a cage, and ultimately be euthanized, which in my opinion, would be the better of the two options.

She is yours. I understand your dismay over feeling reluctant to deal with her, but you can push past that. Many of us here cope with special needs cats. Please stop thinking about ways to get out of it, and think positively about how you will manage this new challenge in your and Miewjhur's lives.

We can help you, with support, and possibly advice, once you have a better idea of what is happening with her. We care about Miewjhur, even having only just heard of her.

Try not to think much about anything until you've been to the vet.

On the home front, things you can do for the other cats:

install some feliway plug in diffusers, and get some rescue remedy, to help them cope with the stress.

 

[hierophantria]

Otto, I will be equally as blunt. I don't need to be berated or spoken to as if I am a horrible person for being at my wits end with a beloved furry-child. I am doing everything I can. Do not talk down to me as if I don't give a damn about my pet. Thank you very much. If you cannot add anything that would actually help, go yell at someone else.

 

[otto]

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I was not at all talking down to you, my intention was sympathetic. I know how distressing it is to come to terms with a special needs cat. I have three currently and have had others prior, it's been years since I had a "normal" cat, they do seem to find me

.

I know what it's like to see a beloved pet suddenly turn into something else, something frightening, especially. It takes time to adjust, but you will.

Not knowing what is wrong is the worst part. Once a diagnosis and plan of action has been put in place things get a bit better. I have actually given you very good advice, both on Miewjhur and how to help the other cats cope with all that's going on.

 

[bunnelina]

I agree with what others have said about possible medical/diet causes for this behavior — and would just like to emphasize how important it is that you stop trying to pick up or comfort your cat when it is having one of these episodes. An upset, over-stimulated cat will never respond positively to more physical contact, and it sounds like your attempts to calm or restrain the cat are escalating these difficult situations and injuring you.

My advice is be to back off and avoid all contact with the cat, giving it time alone until it settles down.

I'm concerned that you may have accidentally created a pattern of behavior where, when the cat goes out of control, she also expects to have to do battle with your attempts to calm her. In any case, it's clearly not helping.

I really hope your vet can figure out what's causing this and treat it!

I can hardly imagine how upsetting it must be to have a loving cat change personalities so dramatically. But it's clearly not the cat's fault any more than it's yours, so do be strong and hang in there until there's a medical solution to this scary mystery.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by otto

I do find it telling that this started shortly after you switched her to the Purina ONE adult food. It is possible she is having a bad reaction to something in that food.

I hope you have a good vet, willing to go the distance and work with you, or send you to a specialist if it is needed.


install some feliway plug in diffusers, and get some rescue remedy, to help them cope with the stress.

Please remove Purina One from her diet at once... Go back to the diet she was on before. It might not be it, but it's a big coincidence that this behavior has started right after you changed the food...
This sounds like a health issue, not like a behavior issue. Please take her to the vet ASAP like the other members are saying...
I would urge you to not pick her up anymore... If she wants to come to you, let HER come to you, on her terms - do not try to pet her, pick her up, or do anything to "calm her down" as that is doing nothing but... If she wants to jump on your lap for cuddles, yes, sure... If she wants to cuddle with you on bed, sure, but do not go to her... Let her come to you.

Please please take your cat to the vet... A feline vet only would be best. Cats don't change behavior suddenly like this without a health reason behind... They don't become aggressive... She is not out to get you - she is communicating with you.
Here is the link for Feliway, it can help your cats a whole lot, and here is rescue remedy for pets.

:vi bes::vibes :

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

I am so sorry this is happening to you and your cat. I agree with what others have already said. I hope the vet will be able to give you some good advice for how to deal with and treat your cat. Please keep us posted.

 

[christinacat]

It has been mentioned several times in this thread, not to pick her up. I agree and would add that talking to her, asking her what is the matter in a calm voice, telling her that such behaviour will not be tolerated in a more firm but calm voice etc. would probably do a world of good.

I have noticed when dealing with feral cats that they actually become "self-conscious" when you talk to them like that. I agree that there is something wrong and maybe your cat can tell you in her own way.

I mean, you have three cats, maybe the other two have started leaving her out of some fun cat thing that they are doing. Maybe she is trying to assert herself as the 'newest' cat in the pride.

This may not be all about you. Unfortunately, you are the "mom" so you get the brunt of it all.

And finally, I find that cats "sense" things that we are thinking. So, is it possible that you were already considering taking her to a new home? Because she sounds either scared (new home possibility) or angry (sibling troubles).

One thing I would like to get clear, are you saying that you are willing to 'dump' your baby (furry or not)? I'm not apologizing for this question, it needs to be asked.

 

[hierophantria]

ChristinaCat

I have done just what you spoke of. When I speak to her I speak calmly, with a mild even tone, telling her that misbehavior will not be tolerated. I tend to speak to my cats (dogs, fish, and birds) as though they were simply little humans. I believe tone of voice is just as important with animals as it is with humans.

I am very careful about the attention I give my pets, making sure that if I play with one I play with all equally. Squall was clear on his resentment when she arrived but came around when my attentions didn't change. I kept it that way to keep everyone happy. Everyone gets their own time be cuddling or playing. Before she got into the groove of sleeping through the larger portions of the day I spent a lot of time playing with her.

This isn't a new home. This has been hers since July twenty fifth of last year. They've all been getting along since November (Tempest accepted her back in August, Squall remained upset with her for a bit longer).

When it comes to the possibility of taking her elsewhere, this is something I only started contemplating last night after being shredded up, peed and

upon. It became a bit more serious this morning with yet another sudden spaz attack. It's not something I want to do but I cannot run the risk of her attacking other people or other pets. Tempest was already whomped upon right after last nights round of craziness. Nor can I simply remain a scratching post, I spend enough time at the doctors without her help. She's going to the vet tomorrow but if nothing is found then my options are going to be cut down.

 

[otto]

It is clear you love her very much but it sounds like you are taking her attacks personally.

I'm not trying to tell you how to feel, honest. But her behavior is not personal. She's acting the way she is for some specific reason she has no control over. The loss of her bodily functions clearly shows that.

I'm not trying to badger you here, but it's clear there is something wrong with her. It's not personal. She is reacting to something. Something is wrong in her world making her act so. She can't help it.

It could be as simple as diet.

It could be idiopathic seizures, it could be a brain tumor, it could be diabetes (low blood sugar), it could be so many things.

This might very likely be only one of many trips to the vet while you and your vet work together to get to the bottom of it all.

I do urge you to take the advice of the poster who said change her food and stop giving her the Purina ONE immediately, however, just in the chance that it is a simple as diet.

Please do let us know how things go.

 

[christinacat]

Thanks, for the explanation. Keep us posted, I hope there really is a medical reason then, because it sounds very serious.
positive

 

[hierophantria]

Update Time

So after keeping a distance and pretty much ignoring her since her last fit Sunday morning we had an appointment with the vet today at three.

The vet gave her a very thorough check save for taking the temperature. The trip there had mellowed her out but she returned to hissing and growling so the vet chose not to traumatize her with a thermometer. After all was said and done it was decided that it's more than likely a behavioral problem. Physically she's in great shape. The vet agrees with me about the food and said that it was good, for her size, that she be on adult food. And she thoroughly approved of the food itself.

So what am I to do? Return to normal, get SoftPaws on her to save my skin and use the squirt bottle and time outs when she misbehaves. She had suggested taking her by the scuff for the first behavioral correction but upon seeing her response when taken by the scruff, that idea was abandoned. She agreed that it was most likely a fight for dominance as my other cats clearly see me as the dominant and pointed to her young separation (she was six weeks when I got her) from her mother as a good clue as to her aggressive nature. We also agreed that when she misbehaves her usual tendency to go get affection from my housemates was becoming destructive so I'll be actively involving them in this change. The vet did say that as a very last resort we can try anti-anxiety medication but that would be as a last resort only. We're going to give this route a try until her first birthday. If it doesn't change by then we'll do bloodwork.

On the way there and back she was a little better behaved but drives mellow her out much like young children so I don't use that as a gauge as to her behavior. We'll just have to see what comes next.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Hierophantria

Update Time

So after keeping a distance and pretty much ignoring her since her last fit Sunday morning we had an appointment with the vet today at three.

The vet gave her a very thorough check save for taking the temperature. The trip there had mellowed her out but she returned to hissing and growling so the vet chose not to traumatize her with a thermometer. After all was said and done it was decided that it's more than likely a behavioral problem. Physically she's in great shape. The vet agrees with me about the food and said that it was good, for her size, that she be on adult food. And she thoroughly approved of the food itself.

So what am I to do? Return to normal, get SoftPaws on her to save my skin and use the squirt bottle and time outs when she misbehaves. She had suggested taking her by the scuff for the first behavioral correction but upon seeing her response when taken by the scruff, that idea was abandoned. She agreed that it was most likely a fight for dominance as my other cats clearly see me as the dominant and pointed to her young separation (she was six weeks when I got her) from her mother as a good clue as to her aggressive nature. We also agreed that when she misbehaves her usual tendency to go get affection from my housemates was becoming destructive so I'll be actively involving them in this change. The vet did say that as a very last resort we can try anti-anxiety medication but that would be as a last resort only. We're going to give this route a try until her first birthday. If it doesn't change by then we'll do bloodwork.

On the way there and back she was a little better behaved but drives mellow her out much like young children so I don't use that as a gauge as to her behavior. We'll just have to see what comes next.

At this point I would be looking for another vet... I am sorry to say... But IMO your vet is making assumptions without really knowing what is going on with your cat.
Your cat should have gotten a blood test, a urine test... This vet didn't even take her temperature???
Also, one thing is agreeing with her on being on adult food, and another completely different ignoring the fact that your cat started having these symptoms right after you started her on Purina One.
Purina One is not only an adult food, but I am again sorry to say, it is a very poor adult cat food. But that is besides the point... The point is, your cat's symptoms coincide with starting on that food. Unfortunately vets are not very good when it comes to cats nutrition... That is very very unfortunate... This is a very easy thing for you to try and see if it works... can you please stop feeding her that food? There is really nothing to lose here... You can then start her on a different food depending on your findings...
Another thing that has already been said in this thread... You see, cats don't behave that way just to behave... Just to be spiteful... They usually do that when there is something wrong... When are hurt, are in pain... And because YOU are her mom, she is trying to communicate with you - that's why they behave differently with you and your roommates.
Unfortunately, a regular vet is not so in tune with that either... which is why we suggested you to see a Feline only vet...
Anyways, I really really hope you do that... You stop that food and look for a Feline only vet. I still think this is more than behavior.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Carolina

At this point I would be looking for another vet... I am sorry to say... But IMO your vet is making assumptions without really knowing what is going on with your cat.
Your cat should have gotten a blood test, a urine test... This vet didn't even take her temperature???
Also, one thing is agreeing with her on being on adult food, and another completely different ignoring the fact that your cat started having these symptoms right after you started her on Purina One.
Purina One is not only an adult food, but I am again sorry to say, it is a very poor adult cat food. But that is besides the point... The point is, your cat's symptoms coincide with starting on that food. Unfortunately vets are not very good when it comes to cats nutrition... That is very very unfortunate... This is a very easy thing for you to try and see if it works... can you please stop feeding her that food? There is really nothing to lose here... You can then start her on a different food depending on your findings...
Another thing that has already been said in this thread... You see, cats don't behave that way just to behave... Just to be spiteful... They usually do that when there is something wrong... When are hurt, are in pain... And because YOU are her mom, she is trying to communicate with you - that's why they behave differently with you and your roommates.
Unfortunately, a regular vet is not so in tune with that either... which is why we suggested you to see a Feline only vet...
Anyways, I really really hope you do that... You stop that food and look for a Feline only vet. I still think this is more than behavior.

I agree with every word in this post.

Oh dear, please do not squirt Miewjhur with a spray bottle when she has an episode.

Spray bottle training is for keeping the cat off the counter, or climbing the blinds, not for a cat making a cry for help.

Spraying her with water, for an involuntary reaction that she cannot help is only going to make things worse.


This cat needs patience and understanding, and a much more thorough examination, (and a diet change) not "discipline".

By the way, it's never been mentioned I think we all just assumed, since she is a shelter kitty, Miewjhur is spayed?