Progress with Mama- tips?

[simonschuster]

Starting a new thread.  Here is my old one for reference http://www.thecatsite.com/t/327461/gaining-trust-of-feral

Short synopsis- Mama is a feral cat almost 3 years old. She brought her 3 babies to my deck in June- roughly 8 weeks. I reached out to a local rescue group for help. They loaned me traps and helped me TNR Mama (spay, rabies, distemper, Revolution in June) and I released her back into my yard. I socialized her babies with the intent to foster, but they were all mine! Mama disappeared for a while, but has come back for regular feedings since July, allowing me to get closer and closer. My intent is to bring her inside and reunite her with her babies (and my two other cats who are very low key/tolerant boys). I have made a lot of progress in the past month with Mama and would love guidance on how to best proceed.

Where we are:

*She comes 2-3 times a day (6:30am, late afternoon, 8-9 until I go to bed at midnight) to my front steps.

*I feed/water her outside my covered front door. I have a heated cat house she doesn't care for and a rubbermaid tote on it's side with fleece fabric she has taken to sleeping in. There are also shelters made from totes/coolers/straw around my home for her.

*She talks to me (a lot!), will often come when called, will exchange blinkies and is now rubbing her cheek pheromones on the heated house edges. She has even rolled over multiple times after a feeding.

*I have a glass storm front door and she likes to sit by the door and watch her babies inside my house. All three are interested in her, but one really loves to come visit Mama! I sit by the door and talk to her and blink at her daily too. My almost 2 year old ginger boy as well comes to see her daily. There has not been any hissing or aggression from anyone.

*When I sit outside with her, she is very timid and takes 5-10 minutes to come near me to eat, and is still very jumpy at any movement I make. I have gotten her to come within 2 feet of me to eat. I talk to her and praise her the entire time. Her high value treat is rotisserie chicken.

Questions:

Do I continue slowly building trust? Do I borrow a trap again? (Feeling that would destroy all trust and she's very intelligent and might not easily be trapped.) If I don't trap her, am I just waiting until she would be comfortable enough I pick her up and put her in a carrier to go off to the vet? That possibility seems so far off, despite our progress.

I cannot have the door open and let her come in- how would I keep her apart form the resident crew or control where she went or get her in a carrier?

I know I'll need to get her to the vet right away- she needs deworming, maybe fleas, and vaccine booster and testing before I can have her around the rest of the crew. Anything else? Oh- I do have feliway diffusers on hand and have the calming spray- Ive been putting in on the fleece in her sleeping tote.

I used a small bathroom that has a tub when I first brought the babies inside. Thinking I'd use the same spot for her, but would a bedroom be better (I have a large guest room full of stuff with lots of hiding places- so she'd likely get lost!) I could sleep in there with her. When she has a clear bill of health, is there a need to keep her separate? Kind of hoping the hours each day of "face time" all the kitties are having through the glass door will facilitate the actual meeting- plus three of the house crew are her babies.

I guess I'm trying to formulate a plan and would appreciate any btdt advise.

 

[tabbytom]

Hi SimonSchuster, I remember that thread.

I guess you have to continue gaining her trust till she dosen't hide from you that much. As usual, food is the invitation. Otherwise it a cat and mouse game and it'll take forever to gain her trust. It's good that she is coming right up to the front steps and come when called and do roll overs.

It is a quick decision to trap her and get things done and after that slowly gain her trust again and that's when she is in your house. Only thing I'm afraid of is if you don't get her fast enough, she might go into heat and get pregnant again and it never ends. So it's good that trap her fast and have her spayed and vaccinated.

A smaller room like the one you used before is better and she does not have too much of a hiding space. After the capture and visit to the vet, routines are the same to gain her trust back and I think it's good that she has her babies there and proably she'll be more comfortable while she is in the room and later for the reunion with her babies.

In the meanwhile, let them meet and smell each other.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I think that it would be best to try and retrap her or use a carrier to lure her in with food.  If you wait until you are able to pick her up, you could be waiting a very very long time.  The sooner she is inside, the sooner she is safe from the outside.    You could try feeding her daily in a medium sized dog cage.  I used one made of mesh a few years ago.  It had a nice roll up front entrance.  I fed my guy just outside of it and each day moved the food just a bit further inside.  Once he was all the way in the back eating, I was able to use a firm board to block the entrance and quickly zip it shut.  Off to the vet we went.  I did try to retrap my guy, but he had been TNR'd like your Mama a few months prior.  

I also would use a bedroom, but be sure it is cleaned out.  You do not want her getting lost and hiding where you cannot get to her.  I have one of my latest strays in my guest room right now.  The bed is up against the wall and I have blocked and covered the book shelves and dresser.  I do have his outside cat house in the room as well as a small cat tree.  He has space to move around safely, but cannot hide from me.  

My new guy has been in the guest room for 3.5 weeks now.  I had to wait to get blood test results as well as vacccines.  He did test positive for FIV.  Yet this will be ok.  He then had a reaction to the intra nasal vaccine so another little set back.  He also was injured so I have been waiting for his tail to heal completely.I hope to start introductions with the other 2 inside boys by the beginning of February.  I wanted him comfortable inside the house, healthy and also doing fairly well with humans.  He does great with me, but my DH is a work in progress.  

Thank you so much for caring so much about Mama.  She may always be skittish and shy and not particularly like pets or being picked up.  Yet she will be in a loving home and benefit from it all.  The feral I brought inside the house almost 4 years ago is such a love bug.  He does like pets, but hates to be picked up.  He is scared of loud noises and when others are to my house, they never know he exists.  Yet he cuddles with me each night.  

Don't worry about losing trust with Mama by retrapping or getting her into a carrier.  She will quickly forget about all of it.  There really is not easy fool proof way to get her that will not upset her.  She will be upset in the house for a bit too.  My guys all yowled and cried.  One threw himself repeatedly against the window.  Feliway plug ins greatly helped as did Composure calming treats/liquid.  

Keep us updated her the progress.

 

[simonschuster]

Thank you @TabbyTom and @ShadowsRescue

Mama is spayed- I took care of that back in June.Thank goodness as I just saw who I'm sure is Dad at Mama's feeding station. He's solid black. Second time I've seen him. His body shape is spot on for mama's male kitten (solid and huge paws, shorter stocky tail) and when he turned around- despite his big full face indicating an intact male, his delicate facial features were identical to my solid black little girl. Eerie!

My folks have a smaller dog kennel they will let me borrow to see if I can feed Mama in it and use it as a trap. I'll be able to get it in a few weeks.

She ate her meat treat within a foot of me yesterday- have not seen her today, but it's rainy.

 

[tabbytom]

Good to hear that you had her spayed and she's eating close to you. She might also have another feeding stop or stops elsewhere and that's why she don't show up regularly or maybe as you said it was raining. It's good that she can see her babies every time when she's there. Hopefully this will make her stay put.

Well........as for the dad, guess in time to come in the near future, he'll be your next target of getting him neutered and whether you'll take him in is another story but try getting him neutered so that he don't father anymore babies.

 

[simonschuster]

New behavior on Mama's part that I think is a major step in the right direction. She has been rubbing herself up against my glass storm door and making biscuits on the beach towel I set out right in front of the door anytime her babies come to see her. The babies are nose to nose with her through the door! She walks back and forth along the door and rubs herself up against it. She is so happy! She has done this and been right there at the door for 4 hours+ last night and tonight! Last night I opened the door and she's jump back a few feet. Tonight She didn't back away quite as far. I reached my hand out and offered her some chicken and she *almost* ate it from my fingers (she ended up batting it down). I'm SO ready to get her inside!! But... I have discovered for sure she has fleas. Today while she was gone I washed all the towels and bedding in her preferred tote on my porch. I'm going to stop by the vet in the morning and see if they'll sell me Comfortis I can get her to eat to kill the adult fleas. I have Feline Advantage ready to administer to her, but I cannot get that close yet. My resident cats (her 3 babies and my other 2) have been spending a lot of time right on the other side of the door with her. Everyone seems good- no agitation, never a hiss, just lots of interest and rubbing through the glass door. Other than the fleas- any immediate concerns if the way I end up getting her inside is to just open the door (it's right into the main area of my house)? She sits almost nose against the glass for hours the past two days- My kids and I sit and talk with her (the top drops and there is a screen, so she can hear us) and the babies and other cats sit with us and play, so Mama has seen them all in our laps and getting handled- all inches away from her! I'm so happy that she's happy seeing her babies. I want them all together, safe!! Next step???? @Ondine ? @kittychick ?

mamaatdoor.jpg

• simonschuster
• Jan 22, 2017

Mama at the door

rueandmama.jpg

• simonschuster
• Jan 22, 2017

 

[tabbytom]

As soon as flea problem is taken care of, get her in. For the time being maintain routine and give her more assurance and present more food to her.

She can be closer to her kids once flea problem is taken care of because you can have the door wider so you can feed her from inside. Remember, step by step.

 

[simonschuster]

Oh my goodness!  I have Mama inside!!

I stopped by my vet this morning and even though they have not seen her, because I gave them a copy of her spay and rabies record and said I was trying to get her inside, my vet allowed me to be given prescription Capstar for her fleas. They gave me two, in case I could not get her inside within 24 hours of the dose. I put it into some rotisserie chicken and she ended up eating half the pill and half fell out of her mouth when she chewed. I got it and added it to another bite- and it was gone! Whew! That was 3:30. She ran off for a while. We used that time to ready to spare room downstairs I use as an office. We also used furniture and other items to create a blockade from the foyer to the office in the back of the house. It took until about 7:30 for Mama to come back. I put her chicken in the foyer and had the door open. She was very tempted and almost in the door then... Daddy Tom cat came by! She ran one way, He ran the other. About 30 min she came back when called. We had the resident cats safely behind closed door upstairs. Mama came inside the foyer for the chicken. I closed the door behind her. She understandably panicked, jumped on the side door windows, ran toward the back of the house exactly as desired following the blocked off passage, only to jump up over the blockade at the last turn before the open office. Ugh!! She ran to the living room and under the sofa. She moan meowed twice and then hid. I spoke to her gently, and internally panicked at how I was going to get her into the office- at now 9 at night. After reinforcing the blockade, we moved the sofa and thankfully she ran directly into the office. Relief! She has been hiding under a bookshelf for the past hour. I have feliway sprayed all over, Her familiar (clean) bedding, food, water, leaves in the litter box and multiple safe hiding places. My 12 and 13 year old daughters and I have been sitting on the floor softly talking doing homework. About to leave her for the night.  Her babies went and smelled where she was hiding under the sofa and everyone is business as normal. Hopefully Mama will use the litter box and the babies won't be too upset that the room where their downstairs box is normally located is off limits for a while! I thought I had some cat attract litter additive left over, but cannot find it. I'll pick some up if needed.

Vet said try to get the Revolution or Advantage on her in the next few weeks as trust builds.

I know to expect her to be frightened and perhaps not eat much right away. I plan on sitting in the room to work as much as I can to get her used to me. I work 9-2 outside the home. Should I leave on the radio? There is a flat desk in front of the only window. I cleaned it up, but there should be plenty of the babies smell in there- they hang out in the office a lot.

Any advise?

She has come so far in the past few weeks! I am so thankful to have her out of the elements and away from dangers.

 

[tabbytom]

That was quick and proably got her in a little confused shocked. As long as she is calm and not making any attempt to escape like running to the window s and banging herself against it panic to get out. Now all movements and sounds must be at minimal but assuring.

You can leave the radio on with some soft soothing music or some news channel with no sudden loud commercials. Leave one or two of your unwashed shirts near her so that your scent is there and whenever you enter the room, you'all smell familiar to her. As usual, repeating routines is a must till she feels 100% safe to be out of hiding. Maybe take a piece of towel and rub it on her babies to get their scents and leave it the room as well and leave one for her to lay upon and later bring it to her babies so that they can get use to their mama's scent too.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Leaving the radio on is best.  Do you have any feliway diffusers?  They do really help a cat to feel calm.  Be sure that if there are window treatments that she cannot get to any cords.  

I also would block off under all large furniture if she is hiding most of the time and doesn't want to come out.  She will need a safe place to hide like a regular box with a bed or towel inside or even the hiding box of a cat tree.  Yet you should be able to get her out if needed as well as see her at all times.  Often when you bring them inside, they find a hiding spot and choose not to leave.  

She also may feel too overwhelmed with 3 of you in the room at once.  I would start with one person for the first few days and then see how she does and gradually add new people.  

I am so glad you were able to get her inside so quickly.  

 

[simonschuster]

Thank you @ShadowsRescue and @TabbyTom

I've given her several safe hiding boxes. She moved from under the bookshelf (full view of me) to behind the desk this morning. I'll have to find a way to block that, but that could prove challenging.

She did not eat or go potty overnight. She did talk to me in her normal meow several times when I went in this morning- just like she did every morning when I fed her outside.

I have feliway spray and have used it  already in her room- need to pick up a refill on the difusser.

I rubbed a piece of fleece on the babies and put it in the room last night. I'll refresh it with their smell now!  Will find a soothing radio station before I leave for work. Any suggested good foods to provide to make sure she eats? This forum is so helpful and supportive!!!

 

[tabbytom]

Yea, just like what ShadowsRescue mentioned, block up the hard to reach places so that she can't get in and don't come out and it'll be a hard time getting her out unless you start shifting stuffs to reach her.

She'll eat when she's hungry enough. Since this is only the second day or so that she's being kept in. She needs lots of assurance as she is wondering why she is being held captive.

Leave her favorite food that you've been feeding her and fresh water near to where she is laying down. She'll proably eat when the coast is clear.

Yes, please keep us updated. You're doing a great job!

 

[shadowsrescue]

If she hasn't eaten by later today, you can try tuna in water.  Strain out the water and put a few flecks in it.  She might lap up the water and get a few pieces of tuna.  Once she gets a taste she may start to eat again.  

I leave a radio or soft music on whenever I am not home.  I even leave soft music on sometimes at night.  I have a stray with feral tendencies in a spare room right now.  He is adjusting and will start to meet my other indoor boys next week.  Just finishing up vet visits to get him healthy.

So happy Mama is safe and sound.  I hope the reintroduction to her kittens goes well.  

 

[simonschuster]

Morning 2 of Mama inside

She and I talked last night- she was under the part of the desk a chair would go, so hidden, but in plain sight for a while. She calmly meowed at me, like she had done outside.

Meows first thing this morning were definitely upset meows. Only lasted a few minutes though.

She ate some tuna overnight. Has not appeared to have touched the wet can food- dry kibble doesn't look disturbed either. Did not touch the Composure calming treat left out.

There was a strong smell last night before I went to bed, but I could not determine what it was. This morning after seeing the litter boxes still undisturbed, I searched for pee/poop. I found that she had recently urinated on a fleece blanket I set out that was now balled up. I also noticed my sleep shirt I had left for her with my scent was moved. When I picked it up it was not wet, but cold. I smelled it- definitely urinated on! Guessing that was the smell last night. I didn't think and immediately washed the shirt and fleece- should have cut the fleece and put the pee'd on part in her box. Next time! Amazon is delivering the Cat Attract litter additive today. They two boxes currently have clay unscented litter covered in leaves. I'm picking up dirt today too.

Urine is very strong smelling. Could that be her diet? That it is concentrated because she's held it for a while? Is her going on my shirt an indication of her feelings toward me, or I am over reading into that?

 

[shadowsrescue]

I would think the strong smell is from holding it so long.  Also if there were 2 pees in the room, that would cause it to smell worse as well.  Yet do keep an eye on it.  

I think the peeing on your shirt was just that it was a safe place to pee.  The fleece had already been peed on so the shirt was next.  I have found that even when I wash peed on towels, shirts, bedding, etc... the cat can either still smell it or associates it with a place to pee.  You might need to try clean unpeed on blankets/shirts.  Fortunately the cat attract is arriving soon.  It usually does the trick in a day or two.

At least she ate a bit.  Hopefully today she will start to eat more.

 

[tabbytom]

Yea, it's good that she talked to you and did eat a little. Hope she get to use the litter box soon.

 

[simonschuster]

Feeling good about day two. Mama urinated on another piece of fleece- this time I cut it up and put it in each litter box. Also, the Cat Attract arrived and was added to each box.

Mama would not eat. Hopefully tonight.

We took one of her babies in to see her- Rue, the most laid back who lets us hold her for long periods of time without squirming. She's also the least interested of the three in Mama.

Mama was under a shelf, We held Rue a few feet away. Mama talked to her and slowly creeped out toward Rue. Rue let out a soft bay hiss and Mama retreated. We had them looking at each other maybe 3-5 minutes.

Highlight is that I laid down on the ground and talked to her under the shelf and after about 20 minutes she came out, slowly walked right by my feet and laid down in the opening of the desk where a chair would go about 6 feet from me. She talked to me a lot, laid down, stretched out, closed her eyes for a bit. Stretched some more and creeped toward me several inches. She seemed relaxed and ended up about 4 feet from my feet (I was reclined on my side laying down on the floor). This lasted about 10 minutes before she jumped up on the desk to look out the window- so no hiding and seeming relaxed for about 20 minutes! She talked to a ton too! She only went back to hiding when my daughter knocked on the door and startled her.

Hoping I'll wake to food eaten and something in the potty!

mamaunderdesk.jpg

• simonschuster
• Jan 25, 2017

 

[tabbytom]

That's Fantastic! Looks like she's warming up to you. Keep the routine. Nice to hear that she hop on the table to look outside. Make sure your window is secure.
Yea, hope that she eats and do her potty thing in the litter box.
Slowly you just cover up more hiding place and replace it with cardboard boxes so that she'll know that the box is her hiding place and she'll be easier socialized that way instead of hiding under somewhere that's hard to reach for you.

 

[simonschuster]

Day 4- Came home from work around 3 and found Mama had used the litter box! Still no bm as we approach night 5.

She is not interested in food much. She ate the most overnight last night- some tuna with added water (not sure how much she is drinking) and some chicken. The cat kibble looks slightly touched. She has only eaten at night. Food, so far, is not working to my advantage to connect with her. My almost 2 year old ginger guy, Harry, is also never interested in food or treats.

Mama is a talker! I knew that about her outside, but we sit and talk back and forth for 10 minutes at a time. This girl is vocal!!!

Have now brought all 3 of her babies in one at a time for a visit (holding them down on the ground to prevent them from getting too close). Mama is very interested, and has approached each, staying about 2-3 feet away. Kittens are a bit tense, bit only 1 did a soft baby hiss (they are 10 months old).

Spending time with her in her room talking and just being with her. She's still 95% under the shelf- in full view of me. I'm headed out of town for a day and a half and hubby will be the food giver and visitor. Doubt we'll have any forward progress. It was so cold today- thankful she's inside- even scared.

mamameetsrue.jpg

• simonschuster
• Jan 27, 2017

 

[tabbytom]

Bravo! That's one step forward with the kittens. And she's using the litter box and no longer peeing on shirt and fleece and other things.
As long as she is eating, peeing and talking and meeting her kids, there's great progress.

You are doing a wonderful job and keep it up with the routine.