Possible IBD? Please advise me on what to do

[birdie1953]

Poultry is any bird, duck, turkey, chicken. If he is intolerant of chicken there is a good chance he is intolerant of all birds.

 

[IndyJones]

Yet pheasant is a good protein for intolerant cats. Hector had allergies to poultry and corn but did fine on Primal Pheasant. Yes this is a raw food but it looks like canned food. It comes in little pucks in a bag just place a puck into the bowl basically.

 

[nevroth]

My little princess Mephistopheles (hopefully) has IBD. I say hopefully because I opted to not have the endoscopy done and so we'll never know for sure if it's IBD, but she's doing well after a 3 month journey and so I hope lymphoma can be ruled out (only time will tell).

I know how scary it is when your furbaby loses weight- 0.4kg is no laughing matter. Did the vet agree that he's dehydrated? Did they offer fluids? I gave Meph unflavored pedialyte (an electrolyte solution) when I noticed she was dehydrated. I was very vigilant about it because dehydration will make cats not want to eat or drink. Sometimes I noticed she ate a little more after a 15ml pick-me-up. 

I'll have to agree 100% with @Brian007  on trying the pumpkin. I chose to try pumpkin first instead of probiotics and it made a world of difference. It really does seems to help firm up stools AND YET make them not too soft to pass. I have probiotics at the ready, but she's been on 1/2 tbsp (1 tsp wasn't quite enough) for about 4wks now (wow time flies) and I noticed when I skipped a day she'd have a little too firm for comfort bowel movements later than expected. Also, if he's having too much gas it could be because of the probiotics since it's the bacteria producing the gas. I don't know what strains you are using, but I would avoid whatever food you're feeding because that's just feeding the bacteria which is causing that crazy flatulence. Not sure if it's both bad and good bacteria that do this, so it could potentially still be an imbalance but you won't know unless you stop the probiotic and see if it improves or worsens. But you could always add pumpkin along with the probiotic too. It won't hurt. If you can't find canned you can steam/bake your own. I think another member mentioned butternut squash helps too if you can't find big old orange pumpkin.

I understand your pain about the smell! It's bad. I know. Meph never had stinky poo before this came up. It was always Momo, but now I know it's her because of the distinctive smell. Yuck. I get it. But taking photos may really help. Because you will be able to track changes and have a visual reference, not just notes. Also, I'm glad the vet mentioned pancreatitis, because that's supposed to cause particularly smelly poop. Meph tested negative for this but it's worth getting your kitty tested to rule it out (or in).

I also understand 100% the expense. There were weeks when I literally spent more money on cat food than people food for myself. I would spend hours online looking at ingredients, or in the stores reading the back of cans and then looking them up online, and then even more time just staring at the wall of cat food thinking, "which one will she decide to like today?"  Because she'll love something one day, then refuse it the next. Or refuse it forever. It's hard, I know.

This place is a great support group and I'm adding myself to Team Pendragon!  It took me 3 hard months to get Meph to a place where we're both happy. Our journey isn't over and many people here saved my sanity. I'm sending good vibes your way!! 

 

[birdie1953]

The pumpkin give extra fiber to keep the bowels moving. It will not help the runny stools or the smell - coming from a non vet who has been through this.

The food is very expensive.

I never had the endoscopy either, but I had all the blood tests and a digital exam showed rocky had blood in his colon.

 

[birdie1953]

The raw diets are expensive,too. I would go straight to the non poultry trial.

 

[IndyJones]

The raw diets are expensive,too. I would go straight to the non poultry trial.

Not as expensive as pumping your cat full of chemicals at the vet to stop vomiting.

Plus it's not any more money than the hypoallergenic food from the vet which is lower quality.

 

[Brian007]

@Pendragon  Slippery Elm Bark is another well known and proven reliever of both constipation and diarrhoea in cats.  It has heaps of other medicinal benefits too, and is known to treat IBS in humans.  It's what's known as a 'demulcent'.  Look it up on the net there's heaps of articles about it.  I am a human herbal medicinist but slippery elm bark is 100% safe for cats.  (Dandelion is also useful, just saying in passing.) You can buy it as pure organic powder from Amazon, eBay, etc, or as tablets from Holland & Barrett and such places (but make sure they only contain 100% slippery elm bark and no fillers).  You simply mix the powder with water whereby it turns into an ultra slimy, snotty, mucous, mmmmmmm, and add it to food.  I recommend your looking into it....  I can find you an exact dosage recipe, if you like. 

 

 

[Columbine]

Just to clarify here - poultry is all farmed birds (so chicken, turkey, quail, farmed duck, farmed goose etc). Pheasant, and other birds from the wild (wild duck, wild goose etc) is classed as game, along with other animals that are hunted rather than farmed.

A chicken allergy does NOT necessarily mean that the cat will not be able to tolerate other poultry or game birds. Duck is often pretty well accepted, as are other lesser-fed birds (pheasant, goose etc). Even turkey is sometimes tolerated too - it all depends on the individual

Having said that, if chicken is a problem, I would want to avoid feeding anything that lists poultry (or poultry fat/gravy etc) as an ingredient, simply because it may contain some chicken along with other birds. Hope that all makes sense :cross:

I'm very confused about the James Wellbeloved duck food now - when I suggested it, I was taking the ingredients list from their website, which clearly states 'duck gravy' in the ingredients. However, I've just looked up the same foods on Zooplus, and 'poultry gravy' is listed. If it were me, I'd contact the company directly and ask them to clarify this for you.

I really hope you're able to pinpoint your boy's trigger foods soon, and that you can get him back to full health

It's great that you got on better with the younger vet. Sometimes the younger ones can be very good indeed - yes, they're less experienced, but they're very often right up to date with latest treatments/research. A young vet suggested a treatment for one of my old boys that the (excellent) older vets hadn't thought of, and it gave him an extra few months of good quality life with us Trust your instincts - if you like this young vet, stick with her. Remember you can always request a specific vet when you book your appointments The receptionists don't always like it, but you're the one paying the bills, and it's your right to have a vet you feel confident with :nod:

 

[IndyJones]

Yes there's several vets at my clinic two of who are the ones that I usually see. There is a third younger one but I've never met him.

If your pet has a condition they try to keep you with the one who did the diagnosis simply because it's easier to communicate and follow up.

 

[Brian007]

I think vets are like doctors and if you have a rapport with one you can edge out the one you were allocated when you signed up to the surgery or practice simply by requesting to see them and only them.  I managed to "change" my GP this way, I'm not sure whether the receptionists were aware of my sneaky ousting of the other GP or not.

Younger vets might lack experience and knowledge.  But they've also not had the time to become intrenched in certain repetitive thought patterns and practises.  I've had mixed results from young and older vets over the years, it really does depend on the individual's open mindedness.  A young vet might be more eager to explore novel options and listen to patients' own research.  And if you're young yourself they may come across as less patronising, my apologies to older vets.  But older vets might have a wealth of valuable information and insight, and seem more confident in themselves.  

What you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabout.

Do your own background study and keep that note book of Frenzy's symptoms and questions handy.  It might be an idea to jot down your lady cat's reaction to the food situation too.  Write the dates of your vet visits and who the vet was each time, along with your notes.  I'm going to a Dr next week and am going to have to basically write an essay to give them, in the hope that I get my point across succinctly and without dithering.  I've had to explain over and over to many different Drs that I think they can read me from now on to save oxygen and sanity cells.  

 

[foxxycat]

Someone said something to me last year about Pancreatitis. That the blood test isn't always accurate. My Angel Floey used to get it often. and her blood test came back neg for it. She got stinky poo for sure but not diarrhea. She would be uncomfortable in her chest/belly area when the vet examined her. She got fussy about eating and some vomiting and the only thing that seemed to help was injections of Pepcid. We tried oral pills and they didn't work. Plus she was UNPILLABLE. even the vet had a hard time. So it's possible that the pancreas area is causing some issues. There's no magic cure for this. Pain meds. fluids. food, acid reducers, and time. But from what you are talking about I don't think it's this. Usually pancreatitis is uncomfortable and sometimes vomiting and noneating is the biggest noticeable symptoms.

But the pumpkin/squash def helps. I would try that for sure! It could be an allergy to the food...look at the ingredients and see if there's corn in it. chicken and corn seem to be the most common things that bug cat's bellies.

 

[pendragon]

First of all thanks to each of you, as always I am overwhelmed

@nevroth

I apologize once more, this is not exactly an easy subject to discuss for a foreigner, I couldn't explain very well.

The one who lost 0.4kgs is actually my bengal girl. She's normally fine, eats anything and well, perfect stools. I was only ranting about how badly I felt with the way this supposed to be breeder treated my cats, since they managed to make her lose so much weight in such a short amount of time. She also had wounds and basically didn't drink or eat at all. It's almost a miracle she is still alive.

The vet agreed that they were both slightly dehydrated, but they obviously got much better once they came back home for a few days. I am not sure she would have added "slightly" if I had managed to book an appointment the same day I got them back!

I'll definitely try the pumpkin at this point, after all at worst there won't be any effect, so there's only much to gain in trying.

I am really sorry to read about all of your own problems. I now somehow feel almost lucky to be honest, many of you seems to have/had it worse

Also it wasn't the vet who mentioned the pancreatitis, I was the one who brought it up, the vet simply said it was a possibility she could not rule out, and that if I wanted there was a blood test we could try.
But I confirm that she still gave me a far better "vibe" compared to the other one.

"I also understand 100% the expense. There were weeks when I literally spent more money on cat food than people food for myself. I would spend hours online looking at ingredients, or in the stores reading the back of cans and then looking them up online, and then even more time just staring at the wall of cat food thinking, "which one will she decide to like today?" Because she'll love something one day, then refuse it the next. Or refuse it forever. It's hard, I know."

So much this. I feel the pain.

Thanks a lot for clarifying about the poultry, and yes @Columbine, I am dumbfounded as well concerning James Wellbeloved. To be honest though, even if they confirmed me that the poultry is "duck" only, it's only their word as far as I am concerned. On the ingredients list it only says poultry, therefore I assume it is a mix of anything that fits the grinder I'll be giving it to Melody to avoid throwing it out (or gift it to some no profit cattery if I can find one nearby), but I'll be looking for something else for my little Frenzy.

I am definitely keeping a record and making pictures thanks for the reminder @Brian.

Anyways, after some cooked raw meat (I use beef) (didn't have time to leave it 48h in the freezer) and probiotics, nice firm stools, no bad smell. However without the probiotics, sometimes he would still have issues. But I am pretty sure bird meat seems problematic, as might be soya or other additives that you can find even in very high quality premium foods, including the 90% meat ones.

I'll keep researching and trying for example those containing venison or any other "game" meat far less used than the most common ones.

 

[nevroth]

 

[pendragon]

@nevroth

She is thank you! I am just glad the nightmare is over for her.

Right now the plan is to go on with raw beef + probiotics (in one of the first post there is a link to the one i use, it's been doing wonders for me) and add the pumpkin to the mix.

Meanwhile however I will keep researching for some dry food I can use for emergencies/if I am away for a day in the week end that will work, at least reasonably well.

Well if you forgot about it, that's pretty much the best compliment you could give, so thank you very much indeed It's far from perfect, but I try, as long as I can let the message come across, I am happy enough, there's always room for improvement though.

 

[Columbine]

I'm really glad that the beef is sitting well with him. In terms of wet food, Animonda Carny do a pure beef food that's free of any 'nasties'. He'll probably be fine with veal too - that's from calves rather than adult cows (just like lamb and mutton ).

I do strongly suggest that you get a supplement designed for homemade diets and add that in too - unsupplemented meat is fine for a week or so, but not long term Zooplus have a supplement called Fellini Complete, which would be ideal. Kiezebrink have complete supplements too, as do Nutriment and Barf-Rawfood

Pure beef dry food doesn't seem to be available in the UK, sadly. I have found some really novel protein kibbles (eg reindeer, among others), but they're so full of other potential allergens/less desirable ingredients that they're not worth considering for your boy

I do have a list of raw food suppliers somewhere. I'll gladly post it here if you want to go further down the raw feeding route Under the circumstances, it may be more practical to have canned food as your standby. At least it's easier to find pretty pure wet food

 

[pendragon]

I do have the supplement I'd rather stay on the safe side just in case my proportions are a bit off.

I have been feeding Melody with raw meat for a long time especially while she was growing up (fun thing, it was hard for her to get used to it at first, she was a royal canin kibble addict!)

Meanwhile, as I keep trying other source of novel proteins, what do you guys think of this?

"Fresh rabbit meat (40%). Rabbit meat meal(30%). potato (14%). Hydrolysed rabbit meat (5%). Potato protein. Oils and fats. Yeast. Beet pulp. Carob flour. Vegetable fibres. Potassium chloride. Sodium chloride. Sodium polyphosphates. Inulin (0.1% Fructooligosaccharides). Mannan-oligosaccharides (0.1%)."

At first it looked good, but then my eye catched the "oil and fats" which seems generic at best, and could very well include other meat like cattle or pork (best case scenario for me) or poultry (worst case scenario for me).

I am afraid there is no way I can find a dry food with no "generic" ingredients like that. they will hardly ever specify you from where they get that poultry, fats or oils... and if they don't it's because it's probably the worst of the worst, otherwise they WOULD specify it to sell it as a better product than it is.

Still it's pretty much the only kind I've found with rabbit only (as a protein) and not and other kind of "bird". The percentage is also pretty high (75%)

 

[Columbine]

That looks like a pretty great kibble to me Why not email the manufacturer for clarification? Ask if they offer sample packs too, or a money back guarantee if your boy can't digest it. Most companies are more than happy to help, in my experience, and you lose nothing by asking

 

[Brian007]

@Pendragon, a simple, sideline, share to show my sympathies.  

I've recently switched to dry Applaws (you mentioned you were using it previously) twice a day and wet Encore in the middle of the day, from Royal Canin kitten, which I thought I'd managed to gradually wean Dudley off successfully.  Well, stinky poo stories abound.  And although his poo is nicely solid, he just managed to somehow dangle the end of his tail in a wet, highly stinky bit, and come running through to tell me. I smelled him coming and was about to clean his litter when I was diverted to rescue him from his icky tail plight.  So, many baby wipes later, clean tail, clean bum, clean litter, clean floor, a squirt of valerian for good measure, and he's curled up on my legs, clinging to me for dear life, giving me loving looks and purring loudly.  But my nose tells me his fluffy tail still whiffs, and when I offer it to him, suggesting he might care to lend a hand to clean it, he just looks at me blankly, like a baby.  

Sigh 

 

I hate to distress him once more, but to the bathroom we must go.....

Maybe Dudley just thought he'd show solidarity to Frenzy and you by joining in!  

 

 

[pendragon]

@Brian007:

Poor Dudley, bless him

Those sort of accidents must be even more annoying for them, it can become really sticky, I also had some rescues to do, sometimes after they already jumped on top of me and spread their love... and something else, juck.

But as you say, they have to go I guess.

I must say however that for me Applaws has been a good brand with Melody, but I heard many comments stating they changed their formulas, and there was some negativity around it. Might be worth to research into it more.

A nice gentle stroke to Dudley and my share of sympathies to you as well Brian

Concerning The Rabbit food. They confirmed me that the oils come from "birds" but he said that they make them go through some sort of process and they are therefore consumable even by those with allergies/intolerance.

I am skeptical to be honest. He didn't bite when I mentioned the possibility of a sample or a buy back guarantee.

 

[missmimz]

I haven't read most of the comments here, but I want to say that the best treatment for a cat with IBD is homecooked or raw food diet, and probiotics. There is a TON of info on these two sites, and if you're interested in feeding raw or homecooked please come join us over in the Raw Feeding for IBD facebook group. There are tons of amazing knowledgeable members there that have completely changed the life of IBD cats. 

http://www.foodfurlife.com/learning-center.html

http://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/start-here.html

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RawFedIBD/