Possible emergency with Fred

[Meowmee]

thanks

I feel a little bit more positive about things today, but I’m still bracing myself for something seriously wrong and potentially losing him because I don’t really know what caused this in the first place. And I really cannot afford to do huge measures like I used to in the past.

I kept saying to Fred he has the most Purrfect poop, it’s perfectly shaped, doesn’t smell a lot, he poops every couple of days or every day usually and doesn’t seem to have any problems and then all of a sudden this happens. So now I have five cats that have bowel problems and it’s just starting to get very overwhelming with everything else I am dealing with.

I will look into that supplement. I’m very hesitant about any type of supplementation like that because I tried all that many times with my cats that were having issues, and it usually didn’t help at all or made them worse. In merlins case who had diarrhea and now he has it again the only thing that helped was when I started him on the home cooked food. Same thing with Zena, and Quinn. Giving Merlin SB actually ended him up at the ER DVM were they sent him home, covered and feces, and lied to me about it. Last time I called my regular Dvm because they were getting diarrhea again when they were switched to different dry foods when I fractured my spine, he said just to give them five or so against my better judgment. I gave them the psyllium again and it made them even worse.

There is no way I can do a home cooked diet for five cats. I just can’t do it at all anymore. It’s too hard on me physically and it would be very expensive so they’ve been eating meow mix and then Quinn has a grain free more expensive brand. I tried giving that to all of them and Merlin and Xena got terrible runs on that one and some other ones we tried after while I just got fed up with the whole thing, and I give up because I cannot spend my entire life trying to figure out which food is going to work when none of them really work. I also have my own bowel problems so it’s kind of a nightmare all of it.

In the past, none of my cats really has any bowel problems occasionally maybe somebody had diarrhea for a day and then it went away without me even doing anything.

Quinn is the only one that’s really cured now knock on wood because he can pretty much eat anything and he’s OK. The only thing is sometimes he gets constipated. I’m giving him some wet food every day and that seems to do it but sometimes I will give him some laxatone. He also will vomit when that happens but he never has any blood in the stool or anything like that.

I’m wondering if I can give Fred some MiraLAX I’m going to ask them tomorrow, I will call them. Because I was reading about people whose cats have megacolon and they were giving them MiraLAX to help the constipation.

I don’t know if Fred would eat the supplement. I’ve been trying to get him to eat wet food and he won’t eat it. He loves his mewo mix. But he has eaten some wet food before this and outside. He just ate the treat so far but he could still be feeling sick from the enema and everything. I don’t know for all I know he could have cancer or a blockage and they didn’t diagnose it properly.

it’s hard to believe you could spend this amount of money and still have no real idea for sure what’s going on. But that’s medicine for you big bucks with often no answers [/QUOTE]

 

[Meowmee]

Update: Fred seems to be improving. I am happy to report. And relieved.

Yesterday at some point when I was cleaning out the bathroom, I noticed he had eaten a little bit of the wet food without meds, and he continues to urinate normally too.

I had left the bathroom door cracked a little bit I guess without realizing… I heard a noise and I turned to see him racing from the bathroom over to the food dish in their large bedroom, where he gobbled up some more wet food I had put out for cinnamon. That was truly a good sign because you would assume he wouldn’t do that if he’s not feeling a little bit better and he might be running behind the bed…. so, he was planning his escape, and he made a break for it. Lol.

I think Zena was already in the room, and they had a big hug fest with headbutting, etc. Zena was trying to sniff his butt in which he was not happy about so they had some funny posturing over that. Fred is licking his bum a lot. I guess because of that the enema etc. it looks very clean.

I noticed after he made the break for it into the other room. There was a tiny little spot of watery blood on the floor , but not like before, so maybe he’s still leaking a bit after the enema.

Anyway, he’s back to sleeping in his favorite heated cube and he ate more soft food that I put out for them. I have been putting out the wet food only now. I’m gonna go check on them again…he did manage to get a little bit of dry that I had given to cinnamon.

I’m not sure if it’s OK to just switch cinnamon totally to wet food as well, but I don’t want to put too much dry food out right now.
I also realized Fred is probably a little bit overweight because I saw him from an angle where it looks like his side was sticking out, his tummy, and his paws look kind of small in relation to his body. He’s always been that way since I knew him outside. Maybe it has gotten a little bit worse with him being inside, eating more and being less active… and I probably gave too much food the past few days after the Merlin incident. I’m not sure really.

So, I’m wondering if it’s OK to also start reducing his food a little bit too.

I was talking to a friend today about the possibility of him having worms, and she thought they should’ve tested for parasites, but they didn’t do that. I was kind of surprised, and I did ask them about that at some point if they could just treat him for that but they wouldn’t do it without doing a stool test. I don’t understand why they didn’t suggest doing one because I certainly would have. I’m assuming when they gave him the enema, they probably got some poop out of him then. I can’t remember what they said. I have some memory they told me they don’t do stool tests there. I don’t know. I don’t remember now. Maybe a sample from and emema would not be good for testing.
They also told me they don’t do vaccinations there, which I thought was strange. She said because they are an ER.

Anyway, she suggested purchasing drontal myself, and giving it to him, because that could cause these symptoms too. If he has a parasite and was blocked with worms…he and my other cats catch mice occasionally in the house. I haven’t seen him catch one her probably since a year and a half at least around when he first came in. The mice don’t tend to go upstairs, but I did find a partial corpse upstairs, then in their bedroom so I assumed it was Fred since Cinnamon wasn’t even inside of that point.

Anyway, do you think it’s OK to worm everybody with drontal? I think I can purchase that without a prescription. I used to worm my cats at home in the past when they were indoor outdoor because they were hunting. And I remember ordering something from a DVM in Australia because I think at that time you couldn’t order it here without a prescription but I remember whatever I got it did not treat tape worms and drontal does.

She thought that the ssymptoms he was having such as being clogged up, the constipation, the bleeding etc. could be caused by a parasite. I wonder if it could give him stomach bloat too.

I did a stool sample probably like three or four months ago of Zena's or Merlin’s poop when they had runs which was negative at the point when everybody was sharing litter boxes, however, I know that those tests are not always reliable because it has to be done during the right cycle of whatever parasite it is.

I think Fred ate one of the foods that I had put in some of his metronidazole, and I put in the other room with the other dishes however, he did not eat the one that I had put into the lickable treat yet. So I don’t think I’m going to manage to give him the metronidazole. With the drontal, I will be giving it to both him and cinnamon at the same time. Guess I will just stand at the door of the bathroom and watch to see if they eat it to make sure they eat it. Since I can’t pill either of them obviously.

Since he escaped the bathroom he had another normal poop and he’s urinating normally. He seems a lot happier. Fingers crossed that this continues and I can get him to lose some weight too. I suppose if it is a parasite that could be making him overweight to and bloated.

I wish I had got a video of him and Xena headbutting, etc. I assume he did the same thing with cinnamon eventually too, but it wasn’t captured on the spy cams. It was so cute one point when I was cleaning the bathroom out and he was still in there Fred saw Zena standing behind me and meowed at him to say hi but Zena was scared to go into the bathroom.

I texted the hospital back because they texted to see how he was doing but I haven’t had any response yet, so I will probably call them tomorrow or in the next days. So it looks like Fred is making a good recovery. I just hope it continues like this.

 

[Meowmee]

I find this site Extraordinarily frustrating to edit my text. I edited several things were there were typos because I dictate and it doesn’t translate it properly. I have edited the word symptoms by hand which was spelled with two s four times now, and it keep spelling it with two s instead of with the correction. it only happens to me here so I think it must be something to do with this website. It’s very frustrating. .

I forgot to respond about the diet aspect. I don’t think specific diet is what caused this because Fred has been eating the same foods for about 10 years now since I started feeding him outside, I mean, I suppose he could’ve suddenly developed a sensitivity, but it seems odd because this came on so suddenly… there’s a possibility he just ate too much dry food and got blocked up etc. or he could have worms etc. I’ve had cats with bowel issues on and off especially these five now and when I brought him and Cinn inside, I did not want to change their diet at all because that can be a factor in causing problems too.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. It’s okay to switch a cat from dry food to wet food. Cats will normally lose weight once the carbohydrates are gone from their diet. In most cases you don’t have to reduce the diet.
Hold off on deworming. You don’t want to deworm without a diagnosis of a parasite. Frontal just kills tapeworms. Even if your cat had tapeworms, they are gross but rarely a health issue. For testing, a fecal PCR should be sent to the lab.

Emergency hospitals are not for routine care. That is what regular vets are for. Emergency hospitals get the majority of their cases from veterinary referrals. They aren’t going to take that business away from their referral vets. Plus any animal in an emergency hospital should never be vaccinated. Emergency hospitals deal with emergencies and that is it, otherwise they would be regular vets with night hours.
When I worked for a specialty hospital, we didn’t have any of the routine things either.

 

[Meowmee]

Hi. It’s okay to switch a cat from dry food to wet food. Cats will normally lose weight once the carbohydrates are gone from their diet. In most cases you don’t have to reduce the diet.
Hold off on deworming. You don’t want to deworm without a diagnosis of a parasite. Frontal just kills tapeworms. Even if your cat had tapeworms, they are gross but rarely a health issue. For testing, a fecal PCR should be sent to the lab.

Emergency hospitals are not for routine care. That is what regular vets are for. Emergency hospitals get the majority of their cases from veterinary referrals. They aren’t going to take that business away from their referral vets. Plus any animal in an emergency hospital should never be vaccinated. Emergency hospitals deal with emergencies and that is it, otherwise they would be regular vets with night hours.
When I worked for a specialty hospital, we didn’t have any of the routine things either.

If there could be parasites causing this though, they should obviously be testing for that, it’s not routine. Especially for a cat that has the symptoms that Fred had and I told him that he eats mice in the house sometimes..

This Hospital is not a referral Hospital you don’t need referrals to go to the emergency Dvm here. You just need to have an emergency or anything after hours of all the regular Dvm.

I think there is only one in the area that actually condescends to require a referral and that’s the one that sent Merlin home with feces all over him and lied to me about it in addition to exposing their hospital and me and my family to c diff… I will never go there again for anything.

I’m not sure what to do really because as I just mentioned these tests for parasites are often wrong. They have to be done when the parasite is at the right cycle. pretty much everyone knows this in dvm medicine but not everyone agrees on what to do. My dvm in the past did do worm treatments once per year without a positive test.

I actually had one Dvm try to tell me that Xena was not having diarrhea from having giardia and a pos test so there you go… everybody seems to have a different opinion. it’s obvious he was having it from that and he tested positive for it, he came in from outside with it.

Drontal does not only kill tapeworms. It kills hook and round worms too in cats. I’m surprised you don’t know that since you worked in several ER hospitals.

Tw are more than gross. They can cause a lot of health problems too.

Tapeworms in Cats

Tapeworms in cats are common parasites that often cause diarrhea. Infections can range from mild to life-threatening, but are easily cured with medication.

www.smalldoorvet.com

A cat with tapeworms may present with some, all, or none of these signs. Cats with small infection levels may not show any symptoms at all, while cats with larger loads may have rarer and more serious symptoms, like seizures, intestinal blockages, and drastically decreased body conditions.


I don’t know that Fred has tapeworms it doesn’t appear so because he’s not thin obviously however, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them. One of my past cats had them once and she wasn’t thin either. Anyway, parasites can cause intestinal blockages etc. so that should’ve been investigated too.
However, about four months ago, someone did have what could’ve been a worm in vomit. I don’t know who it was but it was downstairs so maybe Merlin. I did a stool test at some point when they had diarrhea again and it was negative however.

so far so good with the diet I have given them the canned food and I added some of the dry raw food with water that my other cats had gone off and they ate a lot of it. Fred has had another normal poop and continues to have normal urine. The poop was a little softer than usual for him now which could be from the soft food and still from the enema.

The whole time Merlin was on a diet and was on a carb free diet. He never lost anyway he just kept gaining all of my cats gained weight and a home cooked diet lol. But he and Fred are the only ones for overweight will Merlin is really overweight, Fred, and cinnamon or a little bit probably. But if they have parasites, it can give you the stomach bloats, which is usually common in kittens more.

 

[silent meowlook]

If there could be parasites causing this though, they should obviously be testing for that, it’s not routine. Especially for a cat that has the symptoms that Fred had and I told him that he eats mice in the house sometimes..

This Hospital is not a referral Hospital you don’t need referrals to go to the emergency Dvm here. You just need to have an emergency or anything after hours of all the regular Dvm.

I think there is only one in the area that actually condescends to require a referral and that’s the one that sent Merlin home with feces all over him and lied to me about it in addition to exposing their hospital and me and my family to c diff… I will never go there again for anything.

I’m not sure what to do really because as I just mentioned these tests for parasites are often wrong. They have to be done when the parasite is at the right cycle. pretty much everyone knows this in dvm medicine but not everyone agrees on what to do. My dvm in the past did do worm treatments once per year without a positive test.

I actually had one Dvm try to tell me that Xena was not having diarrhea from having giardia and a pos test so there you go… everybody seems to have a different opinion. it’s obvious he was having it from that and he tested positive for it, he came in from outside with it.

Drontal does not only kill tapeworms. It kills hook and round worms too in cats. I’m surprised you don’t know that since you worked in several ER hospitals.

Tw are more than gross. They can cause a lot of health problems too.

http://[URL]https://www.smalldoorvet.com/learning-center/medical/tapeworms-in-cats

[/URL]

A cat with tapeworms may present with some, all, or none of these signs. Cats with small infection levels may not show any symptoms at all, while cats with larger loads may have rarer and more serious symptoms, like seizures, intestinal blockages, and drastically decreased body conditions.


I don’t know that Fred has tapeworms it doesn’t appear so because he’s not thin obviously however, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them. One of my past cats had them once and she wasn’t thin either. Anyway, parasites can cause intestinal blockages etc. so that should’ve been investigated too.
However, about four months ago, someone did have what could’ve been a worm in vomit. I don’t know who it was but it was downstairs so maybe Merlin. I did a stool test at some point when they had diarrhea again and it was negative however.

so far so good with the diet I have given them the canned food and I added some of the dry raw food with water that my other cats had gone off and they ate a lot of it. Fred has had another normal poop and continues to have normal urine. The poop was a little softer than usual for him now which could be from the soft food and still from the enema.

The whole time Merlin was on a diet and was on a carb free diet. He never lost anyway he just kept gaining all of my cats gained weight and a home cooked diet lol. But he and Fred are the only ones for overweight will Merlin is really overweight, Fred, and cinnamon or a little bit probably. But if they have parasites, it can give you the stomach bloats, which is usually common in kittens more.

Working at ER and Specialty hospitals we didn’t carry any dewormers. Intestinal parasites in adult cats rarely cause life threatening symptoms. In kittens, yes. Adult cats no. Except for hookworms and I haven’t seen a case of that in a cat in decades.
The fecal PCR is the best way to check for internal parasites because it doesn’t matter if they are shedding or not. Frontal, I was thinking Droncit. Shows how long it’s been since I have dealt with any parasites.

 

[Meowmee]

Working at ER and Specialty hospitals we didn’t carry any dewormers. Intestinal parasites in adult cats rarely cause life threatening symptoms. In kittens, yes. Adult cats no. Except for hookworms and I haven’t seen a case of that in a cat in decades.
The fecal PCR is the best way to check for internal parasites because it doesn’t matter if they are shedding or not. Frontal, I was thinking Droncit. Shows how long it’s been since I have dealt with any parasites.

The pcr is too expensive so I will call the last dvm to treat him and see what they say. I thought the PCR only tested for things like Giardia not for worms though. I will have to look it up again because I forgotten now Marilyn was diagnosed with Caceil from PCR and Xena was diagnosed with Giardia from a PCR I think or maybe it was a regular test for Zena. Some people say PCR is so sensitive they can show positive when they aren’t really positive. I don’t know if that’s true.

I will prolly just order it and treat everyone, cheaper and easier. But there is no guarantee he will eat it in food. I think I did worm him again when he came inside last time, that dvm gave me some, but he ate a mouse since then. Maybe not though because they gave him convenia without asking me and he stopped eating for a while.
He is doing pretty well, a little soft poop. Cinnamon has meowed at me twice now ro feed him his dry food. He has never meow to me before and it’s a very quiet meow almost silent. Fred is also wondering where his dry food is but he races over to get the other food when I put it out too. I don’t know what I’m gonna do when I run out of the furry dehydrated raw food because I don’t think I can get that anymore at Amazon on subscribe. And because they are eating the fancy feast, I’m going to need more of that soon I usually only give my other guys a can or two between them a day as well as their dry.

 

[Meowmee]

My update is tragic- Fred went to the bridge on December 20th. His symptoms came back and maybe really never completely resolved although they got better. He eventually continued to have trouble pooping, bleeding etc. which got worse.

I finally got him back to the original dvm that treated him when he came inside. By that point he was a lot worse and I knew it was time so I said I wanted to do euthanization. The dvm there was very nice. He did a sedated exam and discovered a large rectal tumor which the er dvm had missed which was stopping him from pooping etc. Really there was no excuse for that, they did an enema on him so there is no way this should have happened. This dvm said they may have missed it because they did not sedate him and examine him properly. I will call them eventually to discuss this.


So sadly I was right that something very serious was wrong all along. Hopefully this can help someone else with an untouchable or mostly untouchable cat. They should be sedated to be properly examined. He showed me the tumor so I knew I was making the right decision to end any further suffering. Then I was with him even though he was sedated when they let him go. I spent some time with him and got to touch and kiss him. His fur was so silky and soft. I have a lovely photo memorial now. unfortunately I didn't photograph his paws- you can now get digital paw prints from photos which I would have liked to do.

I really miss Fred so much and wish things could have been better for him and that he could have had more time. But at least he had a pretty good life with his buddies outside and with me taking care of him and being there for him as much as I could... the last two years or so inside with Cinnamon. Cinn misses him, as do the others, I am trying to integrate him in again more with the others since he is less scared than Fred was.

I again ask the forum moderators not to close this thread because it may be able to help others in a similar situation.

 

[silent meowlook]

I am so sorry to read this. Absolutely inexcusable that the ER vet missed the tumor. I am glad he left this earth knowing he was loved. I wish there had been a different outcome.

 

[lisahe]

I, too, am very sorry to hear this news.

 

[DeesCats]

I am so sorry for your loss of Fred.

 

[fionasmom]

I am so sorry for your loss of Fred and for the fact that he was not examined properly by the other vet. It is entirely their responsibility to have known that they could not do a complete exam on a cat who was not easily handled. You gave Fred a wonderful life and that is what is most important.

 

[Meowmee]

I am so sorry to read this. Absolutely inexcusable that the ER vet missed the tumor. I am glad he left this earth knowing he was loved. I wish there had been a different outcome.

Thanks… yeah I just find it unfathomable that they could not have seen a tumor when they did an enema etc. I definitely will try to speak to the Dvm that did the exam because that’s a mistake that she’s not going to want to make again I’m sure, or I hope at least.

I think she was worried about sedating him maybe because he was weak / dehydrated and she was able to touch him, etc. but really that was a big mistake because had she sedated him I assume she would’ve found the tumor then.

The other DVM, who is experienced with treating Feral Cats just said he’s going to sedate him- they always sedate those cats because they know it could stress them out a lot to be examined etc. They can do a light sedation, which is not going to be dangerous. he told me I made the right decision too. He was probably just about as upset as I was because I saw tears in his eyes starting before he went to examine him.

I’m still just trying to process the whole thing mentally and emotionally etc. I guess I would’ve probably let him go that day if I had known that… I don’t know… he did have a couple weeks at home where he seemed happier, but he must’ve been suffering a lot not being able to poop properly too.

It was only at the end that he was starting to get a lot worse. And the problem was of course that it took me a few days to get him there. He wouldn’t go in the trap this time. Eventually, he got weaker, and he went in the bathtub after running away a few times. I had to kind of push him into the carrier for my drop trap which was awful. I was afraid to try to pick him up at all because I still didn’t know how he would react, and if he bit me it would’ve been an even worse situation because I would’ve had to take him there and then go to a doctor etc. Anyway, ultimately, I stopped him from suffering a lot more. I debated about just trying to let him die at home but I think that would’ve been awful for Fred and everybody else too.

 

[fionasmom]

You have been incredibly kind in deal with cats like Fred where there are 50 extra steps required just to get them to the vet or treated. You have done about 1000% more than most people would ever think of doing.

 

[Meowmee]

You have been incredibly kind in deal with cats like Fred where there are 50 extra steps required just to get them to the vet or treated. You have done about 1000% more than most people would ever think of doing.

Thanks Fiona’s mom. it was really hard to go through this. I have to say I feel scarred by it. I just hope poor Fred understood on some level that I wasn’t trying to kill him etc. by getting him back to the doctor. Anyway, at least I was able to give him an easier passing. I just hope if Cinnamon needs care, it will be easier to get him to a doctor. I am working on trying to see if I can get him to trust me more. Obviously everything with Fred traumatized him too.

 

[Meowmee]

I am so sorry for your loss of Fred and for the fact that he was not examined properly by the other vet. It is entirely their responsibility to have known that they could not do a complete exam on a cat who was not easily handled. You gave Fred a wonderful life and that is what is most important.

Thanks I learned a lot from this because I now know they have to be sedated even if the DVM thinks they are touchable enough etc. if they have that level of fear.

I think he did enjoy his time inside and I really miss him coming into my room and going under my bed etc. which he used to do but had not done recently.
I realized now that there are chipmunks in the house inside the wall maybe, and I think they’re in my room too, so that could’ve been why he was doing that because when I cleaned up in his and cinnamon’s bedroom, there was the dried out eaten cadaver of a chipmunk under a dresser where Fred liked to sit, he was a good hunter.

 

[Meowmee]

I am so sorry for your loss of Fred.

Thanks

 

[Meowmee]

I, too, am very sorry to hear this news.

Thanks

 

[catloverfromwayback]

I am so sorry for your loss, and that the dvm didn't do their job properly. RIP, Fred.

 

[Meowmee]

I am so sorry for your loss, and that the dvm didn't do their job properly. RIP, Fred.

Thanks catloverfromwayback, it means a lot to me