Please help

[dan roth]

Ok,

I grew up with dogs and my girlfriend has a cat. I have found that over the last six months I have treated her cat like I would a dog,

I.e. when the cat is upset I make it sit with me etc.

Anyway on christmas I bathed the cat and wound up with scars, the cat also wound up pooping while i did this at which point i stopped. then on christmas I held her down so i could brush her stomache.

Now the cat whenever I get near crouches and runs away, its ears go straight down and it wont even sleep in the room with my girlfriend and I. It's like the cat thinks I am going to hurt it. I would NEVER hurt the cat. I just never had to deal with one and I should have listened.

This is getting to the point where I am worried about it crushing my relationship. Does anyone have any advice please?

 

[p3 and the king]

Cats are NOT dogs.  Dogs and cats are very different animals.  Holding her cat down and forcing it to let you brush it's belly is a big time no-no.  Bellies are a vulnerable spot.  Cats only expose them when they trust a person completely.  It's a bonding point.  A sign of affection and respect.  You violated that.  Please do not handle the cat like a dog.  It is not your pet.  Let your girlfriend decide how to deal with her pet.  You should have no say.  You need to work on bonding with the cat and establishing trust.  This cat is terrified of you right now.  Take it slow.  Try feeding it at meal times.  Do not force him to sit by you or punish him in any way.  Just try playing with him and letting him come to you.  Above all remember that cats language and value system is completely different from that of a dogs.  So what is acceptable behavior and treatment of a dog is abuse to a cat.  No focing, no punishing.  No belly touching without the cat offering to let you.

 

[dan roth]

Ok first off let me say I appreciate the advice. Though to be completely honest you could have done so in a way that was less 'yelling' at me which was my perception. I understand what I did was unacceptable. I get that, I admit it. That's the reason I'm here.

I figured the best way was to give it time its just a point of significant stress and I do not expect a quick fix.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[p3 and the king]

I wasn't yelling at you.  I don't sugarcoat things. I am very straightforward.  Some people appreciate it and others do not.  But you are going over the line and you need to not discipline the cat.  You need to establish trust first and it is not your place to do so because it's not your cat.  I understand she's your girlfriend but it's like disciplining her kid when it's not yours.

 

[p3 and the king]

Maybe a better way to put it is that plenty of people come in here with a similar problem... "How do I deal with my significant others pet" and "What am I doing wrong with my significant others pets"... Pets really are like kids to us.  And there's a lot of grey areas.  Basically the best advice anyone on here can give you is to not cross into the grey areas... For your relationships sake and for the pets sake.  Play with the cat, bond with the cat but leave all the not so fun stuff to your girlfriend with her cat.  How would you feel if she did something bad to your dog?  Something she didn't know was bad but not knowing any better, did it anyway.  It would upset you too.  Just play with the cat.  Feed it to establish a bond and trust and let him come to you.  This is a change for him too and as a rule, cats do not like change.  He needs to adjust, too.  Enjoy him.  You'll find that cats can be very enjoyable and a good friend, too.

 

[dan roth]

i guess my big question is do you think this cat will forgive me? it sounds weird to ask but its a legitimate question

 

[p3 and the king]

It's not a weird question.  Yes.  He'll forgive you.  Just play with him and try feeding him a couple of times at mealtimes, if your gf will let you.  But play with him and maybe get some tasty treats to offer him.  He will be your buddy in no time! 

 

[mrblanche]

Keep in mind that to a cat, every experience is either complety new, or just like a previous experience.  That's how their minds work. 

Knowing that, you will know that every time you approach the cat, it's going to think you are going to try to bathe it or otherwise mistreat it.  It will likely take a long time before that fades, but it probably will.  We've all had to bathe a cat, and they've all gotten over it, eventually.  Clearly the bath was a terrifying event; the defecation is the same reaction you might have if you saw a big truck heading head-on for your car.  That's the kind of fear the cat experienced.  It thought it was fighting for its life.

And yes, if your girlfriend told you not to treat the cat the way you've treated it, and you didn't listen, you have bruised that relationship, too.

Cats are unique.  They are among the last animals domesticated by man, and the evidence is pretty strong that they domesticated themselves, walking into the Egyptian villages to rid the growing granaries of vermin, thus making larger cities and our modern life possible.  They are the only non-herd and non-pack animals we have domesticated.  They just don't have the mentality that a dog would have, needing approval from the pack leader (you).

Cats are not much for having people "suck up" to them.  Speak softly.  Never carry anything in your hands when you're approaching the cat.  If you wear anything other than soft sneakers, take your shoes off around the cat.  Don't wear a hat.  Don't pop open a trash bag when the cat's around.  Stretch your hand out to the cat and let it smell you before you try to pet it.  Touch it gently.  Learn the classic chin scritch and ear scritch.  Keep your hands away from the face, belly, and tail.  These are all things your girlfriend should have told you when she learned you didn't know cats.

Cats are excellent perceptors of people and their intent.  That's how they manage to survive in the wild, living around people.
 

 

[flintmccullough]

Lets-try-this-another-way.

Why-did-you-give-the-cat-a-bath?

Why-were-you-trying-to-brush-the-cats-tummy?

What-was-it-,that-you-didn't-listen-to?

What-is-your-girlfriends-reaction-to-all-this?

Think-of-it,as-you-getting-blindsided,by-Demarcus-Ware/Ray-Lewis/Brian-Urlacher.Thats,what-the-cats-perception-was.

Cats-are-like-dogs,in-the-respects,they-can-be-trained,to-what-you-want-them-to-do.But-it-does-not-happen-overnight,it-takes-alot-of-time-and-alot-of-patience,alot......

 

[p3 and the king]

I think he's gotten what he needs here.  He did acknowledge that he knows he messed up most importantly with the cat and with the gf.  He wants to make it right and he knows he can now and not all hope is lost.  I think helpful ideas on how to bond with kitty now and repair both relationships and start over would be more fruitful than telling him how he messed up.

 

[smitten4kittens]

Hi Dan. Welcome to TCS. I think it's great that you're trying to change your relationship with the cat. One of the easiest things you can do is realize that cats really don't like to be forced to do anything. Of course there are times when you need to for their safety, or a trip to the vet, but other than that don't force anything on the kitty. Dogs seem to get pleasure out of doing what we want them to...cats aren't really like that. I think it threatens them instead. For a lot of cats their stomach is a vulnerable area. Just avoid it. Even if they lay on their back they might not want you to touch their stomach.

So skip the bathing, unless the cat got into something filthy he never needs to be bathed anyway. Don't make him sit next to you(especially if he is upset). This wil justl make him more upset. Just out of curiosity what kind of things are upsetting him? Maybe I could help you with that. Is his fear new? Did you get along better in the past?

 You want him to associate you with good things. This is how you begin to build a happy, trusting relationship. I do think he will forgive you. It just takes time. Take on the role of feeding when you are with him. If he is in the room  with you, put a treat down for him. Let him decide if he wants it. Talk softly to him.

You could talk to people in the forums on here about feral cats. I know your girlfriend's cat isn't feral but they have a lot of experience gaining the trust of a scared cat. You might get some good tips if you post there too.

Good luck.

 

[dan roth]

smitten,

I would love if you would guide me through. My girlfriend and I have been together for about six months. At first my relationship with the cat was really good. It even at times if it knew I was upset would climb and sit on my chest. When I was asleep(this is what I would get told) the cat would lay on my legs.

I think the part of this that may help explain is that my dog passed away in November whom I was exceeeeeeedingly close to and her and I began dating in August. The cat, Chloe is the first animal I've been around consistently and I fully admit I looked to her for the same kind of...affection/support that my dog gave me because for me animals have always been my zen.

I actually tried to buy the cats love. I purchased a large cat tree(holy crud are they expensive) three beds, treats, you name it. Nothing worked.

Part of the reason is because the cat WONT let us sleep. It wakes up daily at 3 am and scratches the carpet or the bed, wants to go out  then at 7 when we get up lays down and passes out. The lack of sleep has severely impacted the two of us. Because I work in a pet store and am certified in pet nutrition(no live animals) it was assumed that while I dont obviously 'know' cats that I could help. I have tried everything from getting a cat perch which fell down until i finally redesigned it myself and nailed it to the wall and other things. In addition, when I stay over I am tasked with letting her out when she wants out and giving medication to help her sleep. I think a big turning point was that somehow she knew I was the one giving her the calming collar which did nothing but made her pee on the bathmat and some pills to relax her that the vet prescribed. Then one night I was asked to pet sit while she went out of town. I attempted behavior modification techniques that I learned helpful with dogs figuring they might begin to solve the problems. Boy was I wrong, I got hissed at scratched to hell, that was when the defocation occurred. I attempted it one more time on new years and thats what led to last night.
 

I am desperate at this point.again, an obvious point. What do you think I should do?

 

[mrblanche]

Make sure your girlfriend knows everything, first of all.

It's very rare for a cat to need a calming collar or a sedative to sleep.  And cats are naturally nocturnal.  Letting her outside (did I understand that correctly?) likely will make your problems worse, not better. 

Someone with more experience in repairing these relationships will have to put their oar in; I know what I'd do, but I don't know what will help in your situation.

By the way, cats are virtually immune to being "bought."  Buy them a bed, and they're more likely than not to sleep in the box it came in.  But my first suggestion would be to completely stay away from the cat.  Ignore her.  Let the girlfriend take care of everything, including feeding and letting her outside and inside, if you're going to do that (which I wouldn't, but that is likely a different discussion).
 

 

[smitten4kittens]

That's a good sign that you had a nice relationship with the cat in the past. I have to go out now so I don't have time to post much but I wanted to say that you definately shouldn't be the one medicating a cat if you are trying to gain her trust. That won't help at all.

Since you work at a pet store why not bring home a Feliway diffuser to try?

I'll pm you when I have more time.

 

[Willowy]

What's with the medication to help her sleep? That's not a normal thing for cats. Is it supposed to keep her from bothering you at night or what? Why was she given pills to help relax her and what was the calming collar for? It sounds like there was some kind of preexisting problem?

Does she go outside unattended?

Basically, think of it this way: cats are, in essence, wild animals who have chosen to live with us. This means that they don't naturally trust us, we have to earn their trust, and it's easy to lose what trust we've earned. Any kind of force or scariness will set back that trust, the extent of the damage obviously depending on the individual cat's personality. You can earn her trust back but you have to ignore her for awhile. Let her approach you. Don't do anything she thinks is unpleasant or scary. Drop treats near her, but don't push them on her; pretend not to notice she's there. If she wants scritches, scritch her gently and politely, don't drop her on her side and thump her ribs (one of my cats loves that, but he's my baby; I don't think he'd let a stranger do it).

Another way to look at it: treat a cat like she's a high-society elderly lady, not your buddy from college (the way some dogs like)

 

[flintmccullough]

I-wasn't-trying-to-tell-him,how,he-messed-up,he-did,so-lets-work-on-getting-it-corrected,and-done-the-right-way.

I-was-only-trying-to-find-out,what,he-was-trying-to-do,what-he-was-trying-to-accomplish,so-I-could-teach-him-the-right-way.And-how-to-undo-what-he,created,because-he-didn't-know.

I-have-show-cats.They-are-highly-trained.They-get-combed,baths,blow-drying,travel-7-hrs-one-way-to-a-show,and-sleep-the-whole-way.They-load-on-command.They-accept-any-situation-they-are-put-into,any-show-hall,any-hotel.They-are-used-to-being-handled-by-multiple-people.They-are-used-to-being-handled-by-judges,all-day-long,for-2-days.

They-know-a-plethera-of-words-and-sentences,and-do-or-not-do-what-they-are-asked.They-come-went-they-are-called.They-know-their-names.They-stick-to-me-like-glue,they-follow-me-around,they-have-to-be,where-ever-I-am.

I-used-to-train-show-horses,I-specialized-in-retraining-horses,that,as-we-refer-them-as-"man-made-issues"-in-the-horse-world.

But,looks-like-he-has-enough-help-now.

 

[dan roth]

Ok let me start out by clarifying and then updating. I had a poor choice of words when I said outside. My girlfriend lives with roommates, a couple that are up later so because of her preference for privacy she closes the door when she is sleeping. When I referenced 'let her outside' it wasnt indicative of me 'LETTING her outside' it was in reference to outside of the room.

Secondly, before she met me the cat would go through periods in which it would sleep through the night and others in which she would be problematic and constantly do something to wake her up. In September my girl moved and the cat once again had one of her 'periods' only it hasn't let up. A vet recommended the calming collar and the pill to help her relax. I would never give an animal a pill without prior recommendation.

Here is the update. Thismorning I went over to speak with my girl and we both agree this needs to be resolved, I explained how you all had educated me a great deal over the course of the night and enlightened me to how I could change for the better. I then asked her if she wanted me to get Chloe food while she was out visiting her mother. She said yes.

I went and got Nature's Variety Chicken Limited Ingredient food. Previously she had been on a healthy weight and has lost the neccesitated amount. I also got her pill pockets.

When I came in the ca was on the bed. I took off my shoes, spoke in a quiet voice, took my hat off and approached slowly. I then sat next to it. The ears went flat so I made sure she could see everything I did as I gently pet her. I spoke to her quietly and somewhat embarrasingly asked for its forgiveness and let it know I wouldn't do any of that again. I understand animals can not understand me but I also know there are studies that show that animals do recognize body language and tone. My hope is that she would recognize that I was not a threat.

I let her leave and found her up in her cat perch. I then walked up gently with her treats, put them in my hand and gently let her sniff and then take them out of my hand. At first hesistant, she did take them and she even licked the crumbs off my palm. I made sure to crouch down so I was eye level but not to stare in the eye. I took note of the under the chin trick and calmly stroked her under the chin for as long as she accepted. I did not overstay my welcome and when she had her ears up and started to come out I decided that, that small amount of progress was not something I wanted to chance and left.

I know some of you will tell me, "well I TOLD YOU TO LEAVE HER ALONE' and to you I would agree. However, I made a judgement call that while my girl was not there it was the best time to start the healing. Chloe is always going to feel safer when my girlfriend is there, but Im thinking if I come over and get her used to me again, gradually, while no one is there then that may help. I will not cross over into her safe areas nor will I attempt to treat her like a dog anymore.

I value and appreciate each of your opinions. As you can hopefully tell, I am not a bad guy, nor a horrible pet owner. This entire thing was about me screwing up and trying to help in multiple situations instead of researching who I could turn to. I look forward to hearing your opinions and learning more. Thanks again.

 

[tammyp]

Hi Dan!  Well done for wanting to repair your relationship(s).  

This blog is where I go for all my cat understanding: http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/

 It's a little hard to search, and I usually end up reading addictively as this lady has both great empathy, great writing, and an amazing understanding of cat psyche.  She has the ability to open a window on a problem that has your feelings all high and twisty, and speak in a new language that will transform your understanding and give you hope.  I searched these ones out for you as a start: 

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/where-did-i-go-wrong/6364

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/friends-cat/1366

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/my-boyfriend-teases-my-cat/8061

Also, since you are interested in understanding cats, Jackson Galaxy has some shows you might like - they are entertaining as well as informative so you won't feel like you're doing homework!  His 'My cat from hell' shows have been running for a year now.  I'm in Australia so I find it difficult to get a stream that will show here, but this works all the time (you'll probably have better options than me):  http://watchseries.li/serie/my_cat_from_hell.

You may find some shows perfect to your situation, as it is quite common for the new person to the relationship (the human-cat one) to need some help.  In fact, the very first show is 'He hates my boyfriend'.   Again, Jackson is a very respectful and empathetic person, as well as knowledgable.  It might be a nice activity to watch the shows with your girlfriend?  You'll want to enlist her help in making amends and she'll love you for it.  (I do this sometimes with my husband, as it helps us BOTH get up to speed with cat knowledge and neither of us then feels like the other is 'telling' us what to do).

Best wishes and please let us know how you go

 

[p3 and the king]

I think it's great that your girl agreed to let you feed her and to try to re-establish you bond with Chloe (?)  I think that the progress you made today was great.  I don't think anyone would say "I told you not to do that!"  You did not overstep or push Chloe to let you pet her.  She enjoyed it obviously and you didn't push her further.  Good job.  Just keep doing what you're doing. 

Getting down on her level is good. Not looking her in the eyes, probably a good thing.  Cats see that as intimidation.   If you look her in the eyes, only for a moment and slowly blink your eyes.  To a cat, this means "I mean you no harm and I like you."  If she blinks back or halfway blinks, this is good news.  It means that she understands you.  Or she may look at you like "Did you just talk to me in my language?"  Do it again and see if she blinks back. Beyond that though, no staring her down. You are on your way!

When your gf acknowledges how well you two are getting along, I am sure she will forgive you, too!

 

[mrblanche]

If we were standing at your elbow, coaching you every minute, we still would have to let you and the cat work out your own arrangements.  If you're making progress, who are we to criticize it?  It sounds like you have assimilated much of what we told you, internalized it, and adapted it.

I hope you continue to do well.  And I would say that the cat was not as angry at you as you feared.