Pilling a cat

[colbey]

interesting.  we had 1 cat who started peeing outside the litter box last year.  she would always go on the bathroom rugs, or, if they weren't down, any clothing that happened to be on the floor.  (my parents learned very quickly not to leave clothes on the floor.)  but we KNEW why she started--she was afraid/anxious about using a litter box.  okay, just to set this up--at the time, i lived with my parents, and there were 3-4 cats in the household.  (i say 3-4 because one was still mostly an outdoor cat, while 2 were mostly indoor and 1 was about half-n-half but more indoor.)

so...Dusty and Jasmine were indoor cats who would take a stroll outside when the weather was nice.  Joplin was the outdoor boy who was only inside when i was right there.  then Blue showed up (they were all "rescues"/all showed up at the house).  Blue and Dusty did not get along.  i don't know why not.  when Dusty first 'got there,' she was okay, but after she was spayed, she...got fat and got a bit of an attitude.  not too bad.  but she showed that attitude to Blue in a big way, and Blue didn't put up with it.  Blue would chase Dusty and once even bit her on the back bad enough that we had to get antibiotics for Dusty.  and Blue would sometimes "hide" outside a litter box and wait for Dusty to come out, then chase her.  you can imagine how terrifying this would be for a cat.  especially an already somewhat nervous one.  so we're pretty sure that was why she started peeing on the "floor."  picking up the rugs mostly stopped that, but she was still a very anxious kitty.  i felt bad for her the last year.  but then we all moved.

my parents said Dusty was a VERY different cat when they got to their new place.  (they took Dusty and Jas; Blue came with me.  Joplin...he doesn't need a home any more.)  i don't think they've ever had a problem with her going outside of the litter box since the move.

i write that so you know my experience with anxious kitties and...litter box issues.  a couple things to think about around litter boxes (i did some research for our situation)--have 1 more box than you do cats.  i know that doesn't seem reasonable if you have a lot of cats.  (we had 2 litter boxes for the 3-4 cats.  but one was upstairs and one down, so there was a lot of "space" between them.)  if you use covered boxes, or ones with "walls," try to find clear ones.  i think this isn't possible yet--litter box makers seem not to have one out there.  but you can 'make' a litter box out of clear rubbermaid, or similar, containers.  that let's the cat see what might be around them.  (now, for Blue, she seems irritated that i temporarily got rid of the non-clear cover on her box--she seemed to like the privacy.)  if you think it's mostly cats making Maple anxious, this might help.  if you think it's mostly dogs making Maple anxious, try getting the litter box up so that she knows the dogs cannot get to it/her.

if it were me, i'd really try one/some of the "calming" treats.  right now would be, probably, an ideal time to do it--since Maple has been off the prozac for long enough that it's likely out of her system.  if you gave her some of the treats when she still had the prozac in her system, she might have a reaction.  (nothing "deadly," i wouldn't think.  it would be a weird behavioral/emotional reaction.)  i'm not a proponent of SSRIs--i'll say that upfront.  i have a bias against them.  i refrained from suggesting you not give it to Maple, though, because...that's not my place.  but i did, finally, mention the alternatives simply because you are having such trouble getting that medicine in her.  sometimes i think they "know best," and maybe she is trying to tell you her body doesn't want prozac.  that was what i thought, before i suggested the treats.

but it really is true, that the best time to try something else would be now.

i felt really bad for Dusty before, but wasn't able to help her.  i didn't know about the "calming" treats until i was looking for something to help with the 2-day drive to her new house.  and, just as an aside, the new vet diagnosed Dusty with diabetes just a few weeks ago.  my parents took away her dry kibble (which she LOVES) and started feeding her only canned Fancy Feast.  my mom checked the labels, and certain ones are low carb.  she had an AMAZING personality change.  when diagnosed, the vet said my parents would never be able to give her insulin shots at home, because Dusty is (still, without Blue) so anxious and fights so much when touched in certain ways.  but when they took Dusty back for a re-check, after the diet change (for about 2 weeks is all), she was so different that the vet said my parents might be able to give her shots now.

it's just interesting, but i'm sure your vet checks all important things on your animals.  (the vet we had before never ran a blood test on Dusty, even though she was overweight and we kept saying, "she seems to drink an AWFUL lot." i'm pretty p0'ed at that vet now.)

 

[Dinosnores]

My guy is pretty similar to yours with the whole "sweet kitty that turns into a raging maniac when forcing medication" thing. He's also wickedly good at picking pills out of food and treats so I had to get really creative when trying to get him to finish a round of antibiotics. For liquid medication, restraining him was the only way and it took me AND my SO working together to get the job done because he would fight so hard (and he's only 8 pounds!). For pills, though, nothing seemed to work. He figured out every trick I tried and he would either bite down on the pill gun and crack it or stash the pill in his cheeks and spit it out later. It was a serious nightmare. The only method that worked for me was crushing the pill, mixing it with some tuna water, and smearing it on the inside of his front leg. Even though he hated the taste, he was "dirty" and he just couldn't help cleaning himself, which meant he licked off every speck. If your vet says your pill can be crushed, you could give that a try.

Be careful with the placement, though. Outside of the leg means kitty might be smart enough to try wiping it off around the house (and then everything will stink like tuna...). Too low and liter will stick to her if she tries to use the box before she's totally cleaned herself. It's a learning curve for sure.

 

[donutte]

I can't do the whole "smearing on paws thing" with Maple. Or at least at one time she wasn't a big fan of grooming herself. That changed with the Prozac, but just don't trust that method to get all the medication into her.

I have four cats and four litter boxes. The one is used more as a toy in their games with each other I think (not sure how to explain WHY I think that, but I think that). I think only Pea-Pea really uses it, and maybe Oscar, not sure. The other two in that room (the mud room) are used by all three youngin's. The one with the Cat Attract is in my bedroom, and all four use that one. So in saying all of that, Maple only uses the one in my bedroom.

I think part of the anxiety is also with the younger cats. They like to jump on each other, even when in the litter box (if it's the one in my bedroom, because they are crazy. Or if it's any of the others, they wait outside and jump when they come out. They never did such things before Lucky died. He was the only one of my older cats to ever interact with them, and I think he was still trying to teach them manners when he got sick. My poor little guy. Anyway, not sure if it was the boys that started that or Pea-Pea (who I adopted to honor Lucky's memory), but the boys absolutely love doing that. And Maple obviously isn't too keen on it. Even now, when she is using the litter box, she gets out as soon as she's done. No covering anything up. She won't even take the time to walk out the opening - she jumps over the side, which is pretty high, and she's a big kitty!

Oh, and a bit more info on my litter boxes. Three in the mudroom, one in my bedroom. The three in the mudroom are all proper litter boxes. All three are covered. Two have an opening that is always open, the one has a flap (it's also pretty tiny but they still like to use it so I leave it there). All three of these have Fresh Step litter. The one in my bedroom was originally a 30-gallon bin, and it has an opening cut out of the side (one of the big sides). I do not have a cover on this one. I use Cat Attract in this one. So, I don't follow the rule of "number of cats +1" because I don't think it would matter with Maple, since she only cares about that one litter box (and only after we put her on Prozac). She used it sometimes before the Prozac but then stopped again, for reasons I can't explain.

And yes, my vet definitely checked everything physical that he could. After losing Lucky and less than six months later Sara to kidney disease, dang right he's gonna give them thorough testing. I was actually sure she had something, like diabetes, but nope, she was the bill of perfect health as far as blood work was concerned. The only thing he couldn't test was urine, because she had none, and they couldn't tap her (do a cysto) because she's a bit too fat for that. My vet had wanted me to use that litter that will collect the urine at the top. I told him he was crazy because did he forget how many cats I had? lol. And the one litter box Maple uses, they all use. I wouldn't know whose pee it was!

As far as being anti SSRI... I'm anti-SSRI for myself, only because I had a bad reaction the last time I was on them. That was it for me. I think they do have a place, and with kitties I think it's awesome they can help with anxiety (vs benzos for humans). If she was a lot younger, where I'd have to worry about the effects of long-term use (like 5+ years of use), I'd be pushing more for other things. But she's 14, and honestly, she's the happiest I've seen her since she was a kitten when on the Prozac. She absolutely despises Pea-Pea, but I've seen them on the chair together in recent months! And I honestly don't think it's THIS pill she'd be like that with, I think she'd eat around any pill. Someone told me she learned how to get more treats that way.

I've managed to get her Prozac into her for the last couple of days now, by refrigerating the liver sausage ball for a few hours. And using a very small ball at that. Too hard for her to bite through, but she still wants to eat it so she swallows it whole. Gulp, it's gone. I don't know if it's ideal to be refrigerating the pill or not, but if that's what I have to do to get her to eat it, I will.

 

[colbey]

As far as being anti SSRI... I'm anti-SSRI for myself, only because I had a bad reaction the last time I was on them. That was it for me. I think they do have a place, and with kitties I think it's awesome they can help with anxiety

yep, that's it exactly.  i had a bad reaction when...my regular doctor had me try prozac because i wasn't sleeping (this was years ago), and when that didn't help, he switched me to a different one without any time in-between and i had a bad/weird reaction.  but i hated them before that, too, lol.  i was on anti-depressants in high school (the old tricyclic kind) and they...they were awful.  they didn't help the depression but made me a zombie.  so, for me, definitely a no.  but i understand that there are some that they can help.  including some animals.

so Maple only uses the litter box with clear sides and no top piece?  so...she can see the entire time and "escape" from other than the route where somebody might be waiting in ambush?  yeah, that sounds familiar.  Dusty actually used to do that to poor Jasmine--wait outside the litter box to "attack" her.  Dusty was still a kitten at that time.  when Blue started doing it to Dusty, it was kinda funny--like, payback time.  but then it wasn't funny because it obviously freaked Dusty out TOO much.

and yeah--getting a urine sample at home with multiple cats is...super hard.  i know my parents just did it for Dusty.  but they ended up just locking her in the 2nd bathroom with a litter box and some food and water (a completely empty and clean box).  then just waited till she'd peed.

glad you got a couple pills in Maple.  do keep the calming treats in mind.  they have...stuff like l-theanine and st. john's wort in them.  not sure exactly, but basically stuff that some people even find as effective as the SSRIs.  and they're treats!  granted, Dusty wasn't super picky, but there were times she'd not eat treats.  like, if i bought new ones for everyone to try.  but both she and Jas ate the calming treats right away.  i think they say you can give 1 day, but i suppose if you figure out exactly how much is in each one, you might be able to give 2 a day.  and they DID seem to help.

i'll attach a link to...the ones i think we used.  (it was last July, but there aren't all that many options so maybe i'll remember, lol.)  will send link separate.

i like the idea from Dinosnores about "wiping" a pill where a cat will clean it off themselves!  won't work in all cases, but might be worth a shot (ha-ha) sometimes!

 

[MoochNNoodles]

I use Whisker Lickin's soft treats to pill my girls.  The Chicken and Cheese flavor is their favorite but we use the Salmon also to keep it interesting.  I always give one treat without a pill in it and I give meds at least 20 minutes before meals; so they are hungry.  The treats are soft enough to just mold around the pills.  Mooch used to take the pill pockets; but I guess she got tired of them.  

I have used calming treats for Noodles when she was over grooming.  I had 2 complaints; they were big and they dried out quick!  I would cut them into pieces for her for a long time and even give 2 pieces in the morning and 1 at night.  

 

[colbey]

it was one of these 2.

Pet Naturals Calming Cat Soft Chews:  http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/pet-naturals-calming-cat-soft-chews

ingredients for 1:  Pet Naturals Calming Cat Soft Chews
Thiamine (Vit.B1) 31.25mg, L-Theanine (Suntheanine brand) 10.56mg, Colostrum Calming Complex 5.28mg. brewers yeast, calcium sulfate, canola oil, chicken liver flavor, citric acid, glycerin, maltodextrin, mixed tocopherols, propionic acid, roseary extract, silicon dioxide, sodium alginate, soy lecithin, vegetable oil.

NaturVet Quiet Moments:  http://www.naturvet.com/product/quiet-moments-cat-soft-chews/


ingredient per 2 soft chews:  L-Tryptophan 50 mg, Chamomile 6 mg, Thiamine Mononitrate 6 mg, Ginger 1 mg, Melatonin 0.01 mg.  Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Canola Oil, Dried Potato Product, Flaxseed, Glycerin, Lecithin, Mixed Tocopherols, Natural Flavoring, Rosemary Extract, Sorbic Acid, Tapioca Starch, Vegetable Oil, and Water.

a question on the amazon page asked about daily, continued use and the answers were all positive.

i guess there's even more stuff out there than i even found last year.  http://www.petsmart.com/cat/stress-anxiety-relief/cat-36-catid-200050

the review on that page for the Whisker City Calm Down is sure glowing.  i don't know how a "lavender" collar is calming, but it apparently works for some cats.

and, finally, here's that Bach's Rescue Remedy:  http://www.bachrescueremedypet.com/about/what-is-rescue-pet/

a LOT of people recommended this to me when Tarzana was sick and had to go to the vet a lot (very stressful for her).  i don't know that it actually helped her; she kinda just "shut down" both with and without it, but a lot of people swear by it.  i think it's about $10-12 if you wanted to try it.  (i also THINK it could be used with any of the medicine/supplements without interaction.)

really, the biggest reason i brought up the treats is because i thought Maple might just eat them AND they would help her.  a lot less stress for both of you if they worked.

 

[donutte]

I DO want to look into calming chews because I would like to get them for our dog Sugar. I think Maple needs more hard-core.

On that note, it's been an interesting few weeks. Finding stuff that worked, then it didn't, going a couple days at a time with her missing her pill, and not enough days of actually getting it. The difference was VERY noticeable. I caved and got it compounded. Oh no, that was not gonna work one bit. This cat holds her mouth shut (jaw AND lips) better than any cat I've ever seen. Trying to get the syringe in was next to impossible. Then when I finally did and pushed the meds in there, DROOL all over. I syringed the water as instructed, but it was a drooly mess, and a traumatic experience for both. Sigh.

Today I tried something I read awhile back. Not sure why it took me so long to try it. Basically taking the smaller half of a gel cap, putting the pill in that, and then putting it in something else. The thing I'd read said a pill pocket, but needed to try something different today (I have to mix it up with her). Back to the liver sausage. She managed to drop the gel cap with the pill. I had a feeling the ball was too big, so picked up the cap with the pill, wrapped it in a little less liver sausage, and YAY she gobbled it up! And never ever tasted it. That's the best part.

We'll see how many days this works. @mrsgreenjeens, no to injectables, they don't exist for Prozac. They need to invent it! And the transdermal only has about a 10% efficacy so... that won't work very well. I said I'd try the compound but that just didn't work at all. Sign. Hopefully this new way of pilling lasts awhile.