Photo update of Lucas

[momto4kitties]

HI Laurie, you have no idea how much it means to me that you have taken the time to help me analize Lucas's situation. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I feel so foolish, I went crazy when I saw him scratching and I forgot all about the dermoscent, i just ordered it on amazon right now. NOw they make it for cats, that is so great!

Your analysis is correct Laurie, I think the main problem with Lucas is the food and his prednisolone dose.

When I started this thread Lucas was eating regular canned food, like fancy feast and purina one cans. And he got better with the prozac while still eating those, that is why this is so confusing...

What I have seen is the following:
1. I don't think the prednisolone is causing the demodex, it is the food. When Lucas was on fancy feast his ears looked awful, then I started him on z/d and his ears cleared, it was amazing, and he was still taking the 5mg of prednisolone. The vets are exagerating about their worries about the pred and demodex. I just wish Lucas liked the z/d, but he hates it.

2. I've given him sucralfate in the past, I will ask in the pharmacy if they can sell it without prescription or I will call the vet.

3. In the past Lucas had many throat infections,but they mostly happened when I tried to lower his pred. Then I would start him on 5mg again and he got better. Maybe he needs more, I don't know....

4. He is already on prozac and he is a little better, but sleeping all day and I feel bad because I feel I'm not solving the problem, just masking it. I will keep him on his dose for a week and then slowly give him less.

What I wish I knew is what is causing him to scratch so much, ,. the prednisolone is not helping.. what kind of allergies don't respond to prednisolone, I think foood, right? But then again he has been on regular food and he has been just fine.  He has gotten better without the z/d or limited ingredient food.  What has improved while on this food is his ears, not the scratching..

Lucas is very difficult, he won't touch home made food, and I've been trying to introduce him to it.... if the doesn't like it  he just won't eat, he will go hungry and get all sorts of stresses, then he starts having problems urinating... cystitis, all because he is stressed.

He is not eating  a limited ingredient diet because I bought him turkey, hates it... chicken,,,, wont touch it... and petsmart didn;t have the fish and potato food.  I will ask if they can order it soon.   I hate the fact that blue buffalo doesn't give information about carbohidrates, I like knowing that...

HEre are the ingredients of the fish limited ingredient diet, Lucas loves fish:

• Ingredients: whitefish, fish broth, potatoes, sunflower oil (source of omega-6 fatty acids), oatmeal, peas, carrots, natural flavor, flaxseed (source of omega-3 fatty acids), cranberries, blueberries, carrageenan, cassia gum, guar gum, salt, potassium chloride, taurine, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), d-calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), biotin (vitamin B7), folic acid (vitamin B9), vitamin B12 supplements, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, iron amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, cobalt amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, sodium selenite, potassium iodide and choline chloride

and here is the food Lucas is eating right now, he loves it so much, but it has salmon and chicken, and the potatoes are in small amounts I think, because his glucose is ok

Blue Winderness Salmon canned food

• Salmon
  Ingredients: salmon, fish broth, natural flavor, chicken liver,  potatoes, carrageenan, guar gum, dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, flaxseed meal (source of omega-3 fatty acids), salt, potassium chloride, taurine, calcium carbonate, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), niacin (vitamin B3), d-calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), biotin (vitamin B7), folic acid (Vitamin B9), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, iron amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, sodium selenite and calcium iodate
  Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 10.0%, Crude Fat (min) 9.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 78.0%

I will start him on the limited ingredient diet as soon as petsmart has it.

Once again , thank you, I will follow your advice and I will read the info about Dr. Wessner, thank you.  I will keep posting and I can't wait to get the dermoscent 6, I hope it helps!
Tammy

 

[ldg]

HI Laurie, you have no idea how much it means to me that you have taken the time to help me analize Lucas's situation. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Your analysis is correct Laurie, I think the main problem with Lucas is the food and his prednisolone dose.
When I started this thread Lucas was eating regular canned food, like fancy feast and purina one cans. And he got better with the prozac while still eating those, that is why this is so confusing...

What I have seen is the following:

1. I don't think the prednisolone is causing the demodex, it is the food. When Lucas was on fancy feast his ears looked awful, then I started him on z/d and his ears cleared, it was amazing, and he was still taking the 5mg of prednisolone. The vets are exagerating about their worries about the pred and demodex. I just wish Lucas liked the z/d, but he hates it.

2. I've given him sucralfate in the past, I will ask in the pharmacy if they can sell it without prescription or I will call the vet.

3. In the past Lucas had many throat infections,but they mostly happened when I tried to lower his pred. Then I would start him on 5mg again and he got better. Maybe he needs more, I don't know....

4. He is already on prozac and he is a little better, but sleeping all day and I feel bad because I feel I'm not solving the problem, just masking it. I will keep him on his dose for a week and then slowly give him less.

What I wish I knew is what is causing him to scratch so much, ,. the prednisolone is not helping.. what kind of allergies don't respond to prednisolone, I think foood, right? But then again he has been on regular food and he has been just fine.  He has gotten better without the z/d or limited ingredient food.  What has improved while on this food is his ears, not the scratching..

Actually, Tammy, the part in bold in my post above, from your prior post 548 on P. 19, this exact same thing was happening, and instead of giving him 2.5mg in the morning (pred) and 2.5 later in the day, you gave him a "larger half" (I guess slightly more than half) of a pred later in the day, and this resolved the hair loss, itching and wounds (at the time). So he DID respond to an increase in pred.

Lucas is very difficult, he won't touch home made food, and I've been trying to introduce him to it.... if the doesn't like it  he just won't eat, he will go hungry and get all sorts of stresses, then he starts having problems urinating... cystitis, all because he is stressed.

But are you offering it as a meal? Or as a pea sized bite coated with freeze dried salmon, maybe a couple of those, in the dish with what he IS eating?

From the most recent post about what's going on:

1. I gave him a higher dose of prednisolone for a week, normally he got better after just a day, this time it didn't work at all. The vet was puzzled because if it was an allergy a higher dose of pred should have worked.

What was the change in pred?

2. I started him on hypoallergenic food. Got him on z/d for weeks, he hates it now. The only thing that improved when he was on z/d was his ears, now I'm convinced that Lucas has food allergies that cause his ears to have infection and demodex. With the z/d it was all gone, clean ears, but he got stresses because he doesn't like the food, he was crying all day. He kept scratching like crazy.

3. I started him on my only options, petsmart limited ingredient foods. I bought cans of turkey and potatoes grain free, he liked it, but it had too many carbohidrates and his glucose levels raised, he couldn't stop drinking water and urinating.

4. Started him on Blue wilderness grain free high protein salmon, it is not limited ingredients because it has chicken liver, but he loves it. It does has some potato, but not that much and his glucose levels are fine. He has been on it for just two days.

You'll have to see how it goes, but fish is often an allergy trigger.

I was referring to the Turkey and Potato food (assuming it was a canned food). He liked it... how was his skin? His throat? I know it threw his glucose levels off... but if being fed in rotation, or using it to transition - they key here being the word transition, not change... :dk: I don't know how closely you watched Carolina's transition of Lucky from kibble to raw, but it took Lucky something like 35 days to even TASTE the small little dollops of new food in the dish with her kibble - and it was thickly coated with a freeze dried treat she LOVED. It took that long for her to even lick it - and the first meal or two, she wouldn't eat the other food in her dish with that stuff in there. Finally she just ignored it, and then it took over a month for her to lick the stuff she loved off the top. This is what I mean when I suggest SLOW.


If the increased pred didn't help this time, and the prozac is at least helping him stop itching, I guess it's better to let his body have the break it needs. :rub:

Do you have him on any kind of fish oil / salmon oil supplement? And as he loves fish, if it doesn't seem to trigger his allergies, do you have access to canned sardines (in water, no salt)? Did you try offering him those? These are all high in omega 3s, which help fight inflammation.

 

[cheylink]

  I think LDG has great advice and points. This may take a bit of reaching out to specialists and trying unconventional methods of purchasing food and other supplements.  I would definitely have skin scrapings done again, tested for bacterial, fungal, mange.....

    With all the antibiotics he's been on, hormone meds (prednisone), and on top of that anti depressants (prozac), his already weak immune system is gone. He could be dealing with a gut disease, for example for people allergic to gluten, it's Celiac disease. Gluten is found in any foods containing wheat, barley and/or rye. Gluten causes an internal allergic reaction that literally over time shuts down the immune system. 

If you look at the ingredients of most canned cat foods, especially Fancy Feast, one of the first 4 ingredients is wheat gluten, not to mention the many other additives and fillers. Its the same with most dry cat foods as well.

       I would atleast research the specialist and get a consult. If you don't already have a diary or record of Lucas' breakouts, prescribed meds and possible side effects over the years, I would collect all vet receipts, sit down and write or type as accurate as you can remember every symptom, especially the first time, of something being wrong. Maybe TCS has a perfect record you can print out

       I know you know this, Lucas is hurting. Cat's have a resilience to pain. They can't ask why this hurts, they just know it does and react. If something itches, they scratch it. If they are tired, they sleep. If they  have no appetite, they won't eat or if their hungry they will eat what they can. 

     I would also look into feline probiotics, the powder form so you can add it in slowly to his diet. This will help build up the healthy bacteria in his digestive system which supports the immune system.  

      Also if he really needs an anti anxiety medication, you may want to research or ask about Buspirone.

 

[momto4kitties]

Thank you both :-)

Laurie , this time I did exactly the same, Sorry I forgot to write it, there are some things that I forgot to write.. I tried giving him the whole 5 mg in the morning and 1/4 of a pill in the afternoon and didn't help this time. It was different this time. When he did respond he just had and it on his back and it resolved quickly, this time it was worst and the itch made him sicker.

I think he needs more than that maybe. Maybe a pill and a half. But the vet disagrees. I might try this later.

I tried the homemade food the way you all told me. He refused to even eat near it. He hates the smell.

Right now he has a good appetite, he is eating well even though his throat hurts.

The turkey and potato he liked it at first , but his glucose got high and also he stopped liking it inmediately. And his throat and skin got worse everyday. But ot is hard to tell, he didnt eat it long enough. The salmon he liked so i decided to give it a try.

I know fish is a common allergen, but it is a protein he is not used to, so I want to give it a try.

I will be getting the sucralfate later today, he has used it in the past.

Thank you for everything . I will keep posting...

 

[ldg]

I tried the homemade food the way you all told me. He refused to even eat near it. He hates the smell.

Tammy, can you please describe exactly what you did to offer Lucas the homemade food?

Did you try a food other than beef?

Offering food a few times is not trying. If he won't eat his food with a pea-sized amount of home-cooked food in the same dish, did you try putting the homemade food on a dish NEXT to the food he eats? Did you try coating the homemade food with anything that you know he likes? A little dollop of the food he's currently eating, altering the smell of the homemade food?

Tammy, he can be transitioned. But it takes creativity, determination, and above all, patience. There is ALWAYS a solution, you just have to keep trying different methods and approaches. You take a small amount of homemade food. Like I said, a few pea-sized bits. Put some of the food he's eating on top. If he walks away from the dish, don't try that again. Put it on a separate dish, and try again. See if he'll eat his food with the homemade next to it, and covered with the food he likes. The point is to get him desensitized to its presence, if it's presence bothers him. He likes fish? Buy bonito flakes, and roll those pea-sized bits in crushed bonito flakes. That doesn't work? Try drizzling them with tuna juice. Or salmon juice. Can you buy freeze dried salmon online or at petsmart? It may be in the dog treat section, the plain freeze dried meat treats. Maybe freeze dried chicken liver. Or as you know he likes salmon, if petsmart sells freeze dried salmon, roll the little bit of homemade in freeze dried salmon you crush up into powder. If he'll eat his food with that in the same dish, then just keep putting it there. Don't worry if he doesn't eat it, just keep putting it out.

But find some thing you know he likes. The food he's eating, tuna, freeze dried salmon, bonito flakes... whatever. Coat the new food with it. If he doesn't walk away from the dish, just keep putting them in there. If he does walk away from his dish, put it next to his dish. And just keep doing it.

Lucas' best chance for not having this ongoing cycle is to provide him fresh, minimally processed food with no preservatives, no carbs, no stuff-you-don't-know-what that could be causing the problem.

But you have to not give up because it stresses him. You have to figure out how to do it without it stressing him. It's not about getting him to eat it NOW. It's about desensitizing him to it so eventually he'll taste it, and then over time he may start eating it. It's not a race, the speed isn't what matters, just getting there is what matters. :heart2:

 

[ldg]

Oh - and probiotics are a GREAT suggestion. See what you can find, but look for a human L. acidophilus supplement (it may have other strains in it, that's OK. L. rhamnosus, bifidobacterium - these are all safe for cats). I give my cats 5 billion CFU in the morning and 5 billion CFU at night.

 

[thekatsaysmeow]

How has our little Lucas been??? I've missed you both terribly

 

[momto4kitties]

Thank you for all your suggestions and help.  Yes Laurie, I tried some of the things you are mentioning, but of course not everything.  Lucas needs to eat and when I see him refusing to go near something I get upset and I stop trying.  It is my fault.  I know that has to change.

Right now what  I chose to do was to start Lucas on the limited ingredients fish blue buffalo food, sadly , like he always does he started hating it.  I didn't know what to do , so I decided to see if the allergies are caused by grains, so I decided to buy wellness grain free food, I bought a variety of cans , different meats, chicken, turkey, salmon, etc.... HIs favorite is the beef and chicken. What I've noticed is that his ears are still clear, but he is starting to get red and he just started scratching again.  So I guess the grains cause the ear problem , but the meat is also causing allergies.

When he was taking the salmon he was doing better, but he gets tired of the food so fast!  I will just alternate salmon and whitefish to see if he eats it.

The positive in all this, Lucas's glucose levels are normal and he hasn't even been drinking water since he is getting the wet food and I've been adding water to it.

He is doing better, he only has redness in his neck and behing his ears, but he is more active and oh I almost forgot, Laurie, thank you for reminding me about the Sucralfate! It has helped a lot!

I just want to find the right food that doens't cause him to get all red and itchy, I think , I suspect it is chicken and turkey he is allergic to, but I will make sure soon.

 

[angels mommy]

Hi Tammy, I can't add anything to the great advice Laurie has already given you, but just wanted to let you know that I continue to keep Lucas in my prayers.

D\

Definitely take Laurie's advice on continuing to try to introduce the homemade food. I agree that it will be the best way to control what he is eating.

 

[irishcats]

he is definitely looking better. I also have a cat on Prozac; she is too wild and a biter. It has helped her calm down a lot.

 

[catspaw66]

I worry about Lucas as much as my own ladies. He just reminds me so much of my Psy

. I am glad he is feeling and doing better.

and

to both of you.

 

[cathouse1503]

She needs to get a room in a nearby hotel. I know she's your cousin but Lucas is you Baby!

 

[momto4kitties]

Thank you all. Here is my update:

Lucas continued to have throat problems, he can eat and drink, but he acted like it was painful to swallow, it was so painful that he started trembling all over, so I rushed him to the vet and they checked him and found that his throat gland were swollen and he seemed to have a throat infection.  They started him on antibiotics and he is still taking them.  He is eating well, he is scratching less, but still is not acting like himself.

The vet decided to do another skin scraping and found that he has demodex all over his body. the vet thinks the cause is the prednisolone.  He wanted me to start him on oral ivermecin again and I said no, last time we tried that he was poisoned and almost died, besides, if the prednisolone is causing this because it weakens his inmune system, why give him ivermectin for the mange? He will have demodex again once the treatment is over...

In the previous scraping he was negative for demodex on his body, he only had it in his ears, but now it is all over his body.  Specially neck and back.

He is now eating grain free Nutro Natural Choice canned food and he loves it!  he is crazy about the soft pate.  I will kee him on this food for now, he is loving it.

My problem now is what to do about the demodex.  I have Colloidal Silver, but the truths is it hasn't helped much.  I will still use it on him just in case.  Last time it cleared on its own and I pray to God it happens this time .

Will keep everyone posted

Thank you for your  love and prayers for Lucas (hugs)

 

[nimlezz]

I was just wondering; what caused this? (just in case it happens to my cat, at least i know.)

-thanks

im glad his skin is improving

 

[momto4kitties]

Well, Lucas started taking prednisolone because the vet said he had discoid Lupus. The use of prednisolone weakens the inmune system and makes the demodex mites flourish. The mites live normally on their skin, but with a weak inmune system they multiply and cause itch and make him pull put his hair.

The vet insists the demodex is all over his body, last time ot was in his ears only. I don 't know what to believe anymore.

But I guess I have to keep him on the antibiotics and just wait and see.

I got Lucas off prozac because I don 't think it was helping this time.

 

[angels mommy]

Hi Tammy, I just read the update you posted. Did the vet say why he thought Lucas's throat glands were swollen?  I'm glad you found a grain free food he likes, that's great!

Yes, I would continue to use the C.S. it has to be helping on some level, I just wish it was helping more.

 I continue to pray for Lucas's healing every day. Give that sweet, sweet boy a hug & kiss from Auntie Kelly! 

 

[cathouse1503]

Please don't let that kitty cat suffer. Do the loving thing. [emoji]10084[/emoji]️[emoji]10084[/emoji]️[emoji]10084[/emoji]️

 

[momto4kitties]

What do you mean by the loving thing? Lucas has an itch, but he is not in excruciating pain or in mortal danger. He has some health problems but they are treatable. Is just not easy finding out what he is allergic to, but he enjoys life, he enjoys food and his walks. The pictures you see above are old, Lucas is not that sick right now.

He is still eating grain free Natural choice cat food. If he doesn't improve I will start with another food.

Thank you Kelly for your words and advice:-)
Hug !!!

 

[momto4kitties]

Cathouse I don 't think you know Lucas whole history, so please don't tell me I should kill my baby because he has skin issues....

 

[mani]

Please don't let that kitty cat suffer. Do the loving thing. [emoji]10084[/emoji]️[emoji]10084[/emoji]️[emoji]10084[/emoji]️

Cathouse1503, this thread is 22 pages long.  It's really important to read through and understand the situation before making sweeping statements. 

Tammy has done extraordinary things with Lucas.  It would be difficult to find a more caring cat mum.