Open discussion for Breeders

[tnr1]

All I can do is hope that the new owners get the cat fixed which I do express this to them.

Actually...you can follow up and make sure the procedure is done. Yes, it is better for them to be in a home then on the streets..but an intact cat has a greater chance of being returned to the street because: spraying, howling, pregnancy, fighting etc. etc. etc. So the best thing to do is to give all your adoptors the following links:

www.friendsofanimals.org

http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html#mi

I would also have them all sign a contract that they WILL spay/neuter and I would give them a timeframe and follow up. If you need a contract, you can go here:

http://www.natewood.net/Rehome.html

and download the PDF called "Finding homes for homeless pets"

Katie

P.S. I would at least charge a small fee....perhaps even $20 that can be returned to them once the spay/neuter has been performed.

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by CommonOddity042

Out of curiosity, I have a question. There was a method I've heard of some breeders using where they microchip each kitten with their contact information so that if the cat is ever put in a shelter and scanned, they'll know. What is your opinion of it? Yay or nay on that one?

I think this is a very good idea. I was just discussing with my wife about our contract for adopting our retireree's. We are always concerned about our adult cats who go to new homes, if there should ever be a problem, how do we ensure we get our cat back and make sure he/she does not end up in a shelter or rescue. Currently we have a contract stating the cat must be returned to us and we will pay the transportation costs.
The micro-chip would be added insurance.
So far we have never had a problem and all of our retireree adopters have been wonderful.
It's also a great idea for outgoing kittens. I'll have to investigate if there is some way to identify on the chip, that it is the breeder info and not the owner info, so that we're the second contact.

 

[tnr1]

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

I think this is a very good idea. I was just discussing with my wife about our contract for adopting our retireree's. We are always concerned about our adult cats who go to new homes, if there should ever be a problem, how do we ensure we get our cat back and make sure he/she does not end up in a shelter or rescue. Currently we have a contract stating the cat must be returned to us and we will pay the transportation costs.
The micro-chip would be added insurance.
So far we have never had a problem and all of our retireree adopters have been wonderful.
It's also a great idea for outgoing kittens. I'll have to investigate if there is some way to identify on the chip, that it is the breeder info and not the owner info, so that we're the second contact.

I have a friend who breeds Cane Corso Mastiffs and microchips them so that she is the first contact and the owner is the second contact. That way...even if the owner changes...her name is always listed on the chip.

Katie

 

[beckiboo]

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

I'd like to get some opinions from the folks on this forum, breeders and pet owners alike, about the who, why, what's and what not's of cat breeding.

Just looking through the forum, I'm amazed at how many people just allow their cats to breed indiscriminately, having no clue how to deal with kittens and the potential problems that can arise. It's really pretty alarming.

Yes, it is pretty scary to me, too, that people can read here, and learn, and still allow multiple breedings of multiple cats!

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

IMO domestics should not be bred at all. There is no control factor what-so-ever to document genetic problems, health issues, inbreeding, etc. Time and time again I see threads about sick domestic cats and domestics with personality issues. These sorts of problems are rare with breed cats that come from ethical breeders.

I think some moggies are very healthy. We have a dairy farm across the street that produces the most beautiful, well mannered cats! They do manage it somewhat, by giving away kittens, and spaying most of the females. My Will (avatar boy) is from their farm. He is a top notch cat. The two previous kittens that came to our house from the farm were adopted out at their first adoption shows.

I believe moggies should not be bred at all. But when I read of purebreds having only one kitten, or losing whole litters, I think moggies may be healthier!

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

So.....why breed cats at all?

Because you look at your cat, and see a beauty that you want to continue.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Who should be breeding cats?

I don't know. But I know you can't police it. You can set limits, and the registries must do more to lock out BYB's from producing animals with papers.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

What is the goal and end result desired by breeding cats?

Producing quality animals, in both look and temperament.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

IMO...again.....

I think it's important to save each breed cats' unique traits and personalities. This can only be done by people who are very knowledgable about the specific breeds and have done the research, spent the time learning and have been entrenched in the cat fancy.

I think the only people who should be breeding cats are those that are committed to constantly improving the breed. The point of breeding is to strengthen the lines, not to make kittens to sell. Those that call themselves breeders, but do not show their cats and don't diversify their lines, are just making kittens. People that have a pair of whole pedigree'd cats that mate and make litters of kittens, are nothing more than backyard breeders in my opinion. I don't think you can call yourself an ethical breeder unless you have a program in place where you have several queens and studs from different lines with carefully planned matings that will produce kittens that exceed the standards their parents met. This should be the goal at all times.

As a bengal breeder, I know there is a big demand from the public for bengal kittens, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just breed any queen to any stud to make a litter to sell. I'm dedicated to the improvement of this breed and I carefully select who breeds with whom. My thought is always......will this mating result in kittens that look better than the parents? Will I be able to show at least one kitten from this litter? Will I be able to keep at least one kitten back from this litter as a "better" stud or queen than the parents?
If the answer no....no mating will take place.

I've just skimmed the surface here with my opening comments on this subject.
I hope this thread will generate some interesting debate and discussion.....so please jump in with your thoughts.

A part of me wants to breed, because when I foster my moggies, I ache to look at their baby faces and know that in some people's minds they are worthless. I would love to have kittens who are highly desired, with loving homes lined up. The rescue I work with has a great way of adopting out my babies, and even the Mommies, for a $100 fee.

Look at these kittens! I know they are moggies, and their supply is way over the demand. But they are beautiful, and have great temperaments! I hope someday enough moggies will be spayed and neutered that I won't need to worry about my little fosters finding loving homes.

 

[commonoddity042]

Originally Posted by Beckiboo

I believe moggies should not be bred at all. But when I read of purebreds having only one kitten, or losing whole litters, I think moggies may be healthier!

That happens with moggies as well. Things like that are not purebred-exclusive. Even in our very own pregnancy forum here, there are moggies who gave birth to one kitten or lost teir whole litter.

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik

As far as BYB, we have a real cultural problem.

I found this thread on TCS this morning. I'm not posting it to defend pedigree'd breeding, but rather to show that there's really no way everyone is going to get on the same page with the cat over-population issue.
People have their own views and ways and no amount of persuassion seems to change them. I wonder how many folks across America and other countries are in the same situation? http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88059

 

[solaritybengals]

^ Wow. Unfortunately more common than not.

 

[tnr1]

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

I found this thread on TCS this morning. I'm not posting it to defend pedigree'd breeding, but rather to show that there's really no way everyone is going to get on the same page with the cat over-population issue.
People have their own views and ways and no amount of persuassion seems to change them. I wonder how many folks across America and other countries are in the same situation? http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88059

Unfortunately it isn't uncommon at all...however, the best we can do is offer up all the services we can to get the cats fixed.

Katie

 

[telynn]

I have a question, probably Kai can answer best. I am interested in the Bengal. I have a deal with my husband. When we can afford to get him the motorcycle he wants, I can get my Bengal. So some day I think it will happen. So I have been looking around at websites of Bengal breeders close by. What should I be looking for in choosing which one? I want a pet, not a show cat or breeder, but it is still a lot of money not to mention a lifetime commitment. Plus the kittens don't really show you what they will look like when grown. I assume a breeder can tell, but I can't. So I will be trusting the breeder to be honest with me. Any suggestions or advice?

 

[beach bum]

We just encountered this very interesting thread, and we hasten to admit that due to its length we have not read all the posts. It does, however, raise a question in our minds.

When we acquired Samwise and Molly, our lovely Turkish Vans, their breeder's contractual agreement with us included:

1. They were neutered by the breeder's vet prior to delivery. The vet treats only cats and is recognized nationally. We may reasonably assume that the cost of this was included in the purchase price, and we were happy to meet that cost.
2. They had been "chipped" and change of ownership documents filed at our cost.
3. We received copies of all their vet records from their day of birth.
4. We received a guarantee of good health and contracted to have them examined by our vet within 30 days after purchase to verify their good health. Cats found at that inspection to have had a health problem at time of sale were returnable with complete refund.
5. We were, and continue to be, obliged to return the cats to the breeder if we, for any reason, decide that they must leave our home. Breeder agreed to pay for shipping if returned.
6. Change of CFA registration papers filed at our cost.
7. We are obliged to see that the cats receive all required vaccinations and other health treatment.
8. We are obliged to provide proper grooming, nutrition, etc. and to keep the cats indoors.
9. We agreed that cats would never be declawed without prior consultation with breeder.
10. We agreed that the cats would not be sold, given or loaned to a shelter, pet shop or laboratory.
11. We agreed that upon failure to meet our obligations the cats must be unconditionally surrendered to the breeder.

We have not the slightest doubt but that our pre-purchase discussions with the breeder amounted to an "interview," and that if we failed that interview we would not have been able to purchase our dear furry friends. We keep in contact with the breeder to this day and we consider the breeder to be "a special friend." She remembers every cat she has sold and maintains an interest in each cat which never ends.

We would venture that the experiences we have had, and continue to have, with our breeder, would go a long way in avoiding many of the issues raised in this thread. We might go even further and observe that failure to require and meet such requirements, particulary when this failure is caused by economic considerations, can be expected to result in harm to those who are innnocent and least able to resist that harm -- our beloved fur-babies.

All the best to you all, on a lovely day at the beach.