Ongoing issues with new kitten and older cat

[gotlembas]

Hissing isn't too bad, but fur in the mouth is a bit more concerning. So you probably won't want to leave them alone unsupervised for a bit yet.

Can't remember if this has been posted already, but here's a link to the TCS article Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? | TheCatSite which might be helpful.

Also, you probably have noticed that @heatherwillard0614, who was replying regularly on this thread has gone quiet. That's because she's having some health issues. More about that here: Get Well Heatherwillard

Ah yeah, that's what I feared. I just continue to feel so awful about keeping Arwen in her playpen while I'm away--it's certainly not helping her excess energy with being cooped up, but I don't want her to actually hurt Pippin. I don't know much about her socialization history prior to coming home with me, but it makes me wonder if she was separated from her mother too early because she has some very aggressive play tendencies and doesn't often listen to Pippin when he tells her to back off, leading to me having to intervene. Thank you so much for that article also, it's one of the more helpful ones I've read!

Oh no! I hope she gets better soon, I'm going to go take a look right now! :'(

 

[rubysmama]

Does the room where you have the screen door have a regular door you can close when you're not around to supervise?

 

[gotlembas]

Does the room where you have the screen door have a regular door you can close when you're not around to supervise?

No unfortunately, the setup right now is Arwen's big playpen right in the middle of my studio area, though it's mesh so she can see out and Pippin can see in. If I were to physically separate them I'd have to reconstruct the makeshift wall I just took down a week ago that I used for introductions or put one of them in the bathroom, which neither of them enjoy and they'll both scratch at the door and cry.

What's even more confusing is that during their play fighting when things get out of hand and Pippin starts hissing up a storm and I catch Arwen with some Pippin fur in her mouth, I'll attempt to separate Arwen by putting her in my bathroom for a brief time out, and despite Pippin telling her no more than 20 second before that she was being too aggressive, he'll immediately dart over to the bathroom door and paw to get in. It's really giving me mixed messages!

 

[FrazzledMumbly]

I'm not sure where you live, but the season is changing over here and the cats are shedding wildly for their winter coats. When they rough house and chomp at each other, sometimes a stray clump frees up and the chomper has to pause and drop some fur from their mouth. Not playing down your concerns! Just something to keep in mind if nobody seems hurt so much as temporarily annoyed. Things will probably even out nicely once your kitten gets big enough for both to enforce boundaries fairly.

My housemate's cat was an only kitten and plays too rough 90% of the time. He just doesn't know when to stop. Max and him are best buddies and play all the time, I leave them unsupervised, but occasionally I'll end their play session and close my door as a "time out" so the other cat can wind down a little. Max will hiss to tell Domino to back off and use a long leg to hold him away, Domino's feelings get hurt because he was still having fun, Max hisses again and bops Domino on the head to show he means it if the rough play continues, and Domino comes in for a retaliatory bite or two because he doesn't get why his friend is being a killjoy. This happens at least once or twice every time they play because Max just can't match the intensity- but they can and will sort it out themselves without genuine fighting if I'm not there. Max will get up and remove himself if Domino refuses to take a hint or demand and the time out happens either way. After a couple minutes they're either napping or back for another round of wrestling.

They still bump each other affectionately and twine tails when walking by in the hallway and have zoomie races every afternoon.

 

[gotlembas]

I'm not sure where you live, but the season is changing over here and the cats are shedding wildly for their winter coats. When they rough house and chomp at each other, sometimes a stray clump frees up and the chomper has to pause and drop some fur from their mouth. Not playing down your concerns! Just something to keep in mind if nobody seems hurt so much as temporarily annoyed. Things will probably even out nicely once your kitten gets big enough for both to enforce boundaries fairly.

My housemate's cat was an only kitten and plays too rough 90% of the time. He just doesn't know when to stop. Max and him are best buddies and play all the time, I leave them unsupervised, but occasionally I'll end their play session and close my door as a "time out" so the other cat can wind down a little. Max will hiss to tell Domino to back off and use a long leg to hold him away, Domino's feelings get hurt because he was still having fun, Max hisses again and bops Domino on the head to show he means it if the rough play continues, and Domino comes in for a retaliatory bite or two because he doesn't get why his friend is being a killjoy. This happens at least once or twice every time they play because Max just can't match the intensity- but they can and will sort it out themselves without genuine fighting if I'm not there. Max will get up and remove himself if Domino refuses to take a hint or demand and the time out happens either way. After a couple minutes they're either napping or back for another round of wrestling.

They still bump each other affectionately and twine tails when walking by in the hallway and have zoomie races every afternoon.

Thank you very much for the anecdote! Sorry about the late reply, I read this but forgot to actually respond. They're getting better with learning each other's boundaries--only a few times over the past 2 weeks have I had to separate them (usually due to Arwen taking things too far and being completely unable to take a hint lol).

 

[gotlembas]

Hi everyone! I have an odd but frustrating question regarding Pippin and Arwen's mealtime behaviors. Pippin is very much a grazer and prefers to eat his breakfast lazily over the course of the day. Problem is, Arwen is a feline garbage disposal and will bully Pippin out of his food bowl once she's done with hers, if she doesn't outright decide she likes Pippin's food better

This normally isn't an issue when I'm home such as in the evenings and on the weekends because I just separate them both for the beginning of mealtime and then monitor Pippin's food bowl over the course of the day so that Arwen doesn't get to it and Pippin can still graze. The issue lies when I have to leave for work--I can't sit around babysitting Pippin eating his food because I have to leave for work, and if I just leave his food out Arwen will get to it. There isn't really a place I can put Pippin's food that Arwen can't get to it as well, so I've had to resort to bringing the playpen back out (I've almost completely phased it out at this point) to have Arwen in while I'm at work so that Pippin can safely graze over the day like he prefers. Obviously the problem with this is I'm once again having to confine Arwen, which results in her being restless and full of pent up energy when I get home.

I thought about ID chip feeders but they're roughly $200 each and I really don't have the extra money lying around for them right now after everything I've had to spend on the cats recently. They can't just eat each other's food either since Arwen is still on kitten food and is in the process of testing out a chicken-free diet due to chronic diarrhea issues, and Pippin's food has chicken in it. Because of each of their specific dietary needs, I can't just give them each the same food, and I can't have either of them eating the other's food.

I've also considered just taking away Pippin's food when he's done with his first grazing session in the morning, but he usually eats only like a fifth of his breakfast on the first go so if I took his away he'd essentially get no food all day long until I get home from work. I don't have issues with him eating Arwen's food, it's usually only the other way around. Except for the odd scenario last night where Pippin refused to eat his own food and only wanted Arwen's, and Arwen refused to eat her own food and only wanted Pippin's. Go figure.

I'd love some other suggestions or some opinions on the solutions I've already though of--I'm really trying to stop confining Arwen because she's gaining my trust more and more about now getting into/chewing on things while I'm not gone, but her progress is coming to a screeching halt because of Pippin's eating habits.

 

[FrazzledMumbly]

I'd love some other suggestions or some opinions on the solutions I've already though of--I'm really trying to stop confining Arwen because she's gaining my trust more and more about now getting into/chewing on things while I'm not gone, but her progress is coming to a screeching halt because of Pippin's eating habits.

If you can't separate them with special feeders (those things are way beyond my budget too) AND want to avoid the pen, you might need to find a chicken-free all stages food that they can both have on the days you're away. It's not ideal but if Pippin's leftovers get gobbled a few times, he could learn to adjust out of his grazing habits when he realizes he loses out until dinner and Arwen might be less interested in the midway swap if it's the same thing in both instead of The Forbidden Treat. You could also try giving Pippin a smaller portion that's easier to finish early in the day and then more for the later meal when he's had time to decide he's hungry enough for a fuller serving- and you're present to scoot Arwen's boot away if he still takes his time.

Combine with spacing their little food stations apart as much as you can so they're less distracted by how much better the other cat's chewing makes their dish sound. When you're home, repeatedly place Arwen back at her dish when she leaves it and give her lots of positive reinforcement for being there. "No-no" at the wrong dish, then "Good Girl! Look, yummy stuff!" at the right one. Replace with whatever affectionate phrases/skritches she likes best, of course. Cats love positive reinforcement, ya just have to figure out what makes who feel pampered.

Max clears his plate because he's learned it's the difference between me saying "Not yet. Finish your num-nums." and "All done? Whadda good boy!" and giving him all the kisses before opening my bedroom door so my housemate's allergic old man, Babycat, can't come looking for chicken-y leftovers.

 

[gotlembas]

If you can't separate them with special feeders (those things are way beyond my budget too) AND avoid the pen, you might need to find a chicken-free all stages food that they can both have on the days you're away. It's not ideal but if Pippin's leftovers get gobbled a few times, he could learn to adjust out of his grazing habits when he realizes he loses out until dinner and Arwen might be less interested in the midway swap if it's the same thing in both instead of The Forbidden Treat. You could also try giving Pippin a smaller portion that's easier to finish early in the day and then more for the later meal when he's had time to decide he's hungry enough for a fuller serving- and you're present to scoot Arwen's boot away if he still takes his time.

Combine with spacing their little food stations apart as much as you can so they're less distracted by how much better the other cat's chewing makes their dish sound. When you're home, repeatedly place Arwen back at her dish when she leaves it and give her lots of positive reinforcement for being there. "No-no" at the wrong dish, then "Good Girl! Look, yummy stuff!" at the right one. Replace with whatever affectionate phrases/skritches she likes best, of course. Cats love positive reinforcement, ya just have to figure out what makes who feel pampered.

Max clears his plate because he's learned it's the difference between me saying "Not yet. Finish your num-nums." and "All done? Whadda good boy!" and giving him all the kisses before opening my bedroom door so my housemate's allergic old man, Babycat, can't come looking for chicken-y leftovers.

This is a good idea! Arwen is about to turn 6 months old on the 9th so she's about halfway to not having to eat kitten food anymore. I've considered honestly just having both of them eat Arwen's kitten food just due to the fact it's so caloric and Pippin really needs to gain weight anyways--I read up on it and apparently it's fine for Pippin to eat kitten food (but not vise versa), and it would actually work out if I did this because, like I said, the vet says he needs to gain the weight. I've never heard of a multi-purpose food meant for kittens as well as cats, but if I can't find something like that I'll probably just have Pippin eat Arwen's food for the time being, especially since last night for whatever reason he was way more interested in her food than his own lol.

Pip is a skittish eater too, if I literally walk too close to where he's eating he gets spooked and walks away. It makes mealtimes super frustrating since I live in a studio and I need to get to certain areas in my apartment but can't because I know if I do, it'll be hours before I can coax Pippin back into eating again. Thank you for the suggestions, I'm going to try them out and see how the kids do!

 

[gotlembas]

Hi again everyone! Update and a question, as per usual update is on the food situation: what I've done to solve the feeding problem at breakfast when I have to go to work is I've been waking up earlier so that I can supervise their meals. It's a pain, but since Pip is a grazer it doesn't take him long at all to finish his breakfast (well, he doesn't finish it all as usual, but rather his first pass at his meal lol) so it doesn't take much longer than 5 or 10 extra minutes. I've been putting their bowls on opposite sides of my studio, and with Arwen I've actually started putting her in my bathroom for mealtime and closing the door just enough so that it isn't locked but that she can't easily get out without me hearing her so that I can come snatch her up before she makes a beeline for Pip's food. She won't even finish all her own food before she tries to go butt Pippin out of his, which highly annoys me, but oh well. Especially since the vet gave her a dewormer just to be safe given her issues with semi-chronic diarrhea, and I don't want Pippin finding her food because she needs to eat that medication. So it's been getting better, not perfect, but better!

And now for a question that I feel probably has a simple answer, but I haven't been able to find one yet: what do you do about a toy hog? In a surprising turn of events, the problem is actually Pippin this time. When I play with the two of them, Pippin is an absolute toy hog! No matter when and where I play with them, Pippin constantly hogs the toy and poor Arwen sits on the sidelines and watches. I'll try and drag the toy almost directly in front of her to give her the best chance at pouncing on it, but Lightning McQueen over here zooms right up in her face pouncing on it instead! The only thing I've been able to think of is to physically separate them, which means putting Pippin in the bathroom while I let Arwen have some time to play with the toy, but then Pippin starts crying at the top of his lungs and then Arwen gets immediately concerned with where her brother is instead of playing with the toy, thus defeating the purpose. I've tried to just let Pippin tire himself out, but even when he's so tired that he's full-on panting he still insists on going for the toy. I've tried using two toys, one in each hand, but Arwen will just focus on the one that Pippin is playing with and completely ignores the one in my other hand meant for her. The reason this is an issue is because Arwen isn't getting all her energy out via play since Pippin is hogging the toys, so then she attacks my feet at night under the covers with her claws out and I can't even count the amount of wound I have on my feet at this point. I know it means she's not getting enough playtime during the day, and I swear I'm trying, but Pippin is kind of foiling my every effort :')

 

[rubysmama]

Sounds like the food situation is working for now.

About the toys, sounds like maybe a bit of jealousy happening.
Do Cats Get Jealous? (And What To Do About It When They Do) - TheCatSite

 

[FrazzledMumbly]

The reason this is an issue is because Arwen isn't getting all her energy out via play since Pippin is hogging the toys, so then she attacks my feet at night under the covers with her claws out and I can't even count the amount of wound I have on my feet at this point. I know it means she's not getting enough playtime during the day, and I swear I'm trying, but Pippin is kind of foiling my every effort :')

It's not a full fix, but you could get a stick teaser (no long strings, you want a short-range toy) and keep it tucked somewhere on the bed so you can have a little play time while winding down for sleep AND redirect those antsy paws from your poor feet.