Older FIV cat, new concerns

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sulcal

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Thank you for the information MomofMaxwell.

 I took Sully in earlier in the week to get a chem panel and blood work done.  I had them check his pancreas and that came back in the normal range.  Kidneys are fine but his liver was slightly elevated.  He had pretty much stopped eating and drinking at that point.  They gave him a pain shot again.  Gave him a huge amount of fluids.  I can't remember how much she said they gave him but, apparently more than they usually give because he was so dehydrated.  Brought him home that night and he gobbled up food all night.  Then, in the early morning I heard a loud noise next the the bed that actually woke me up.  Looked down and Sully was kind of standing on the floor.  Not sure what happened but, I could tell something was not quite right.  He proceeded to go into the next room and pee on the floor, which he has never done before.  Seemed even weaker than before.  Later that day, when I came back from work, he had evidently peed where he was sleeping in a couple of different places.  Once I got that cleaned up, he pretty much slept in the same spot all day.  

The next day, he got up some and wanted outside.  He walked around the house but, could only go about 10-20 steps before sitting down.  I have also noticed since then, that when he breathes, he has a little "huff" noise at the end of the exhale.  Took him in on Thursday to have a chest x-ray.  She said there was no heart murmur and didn't look like CHF but, he did have a slightly enlarged heart.  She wasn't concerned about that though because apparently that is common in Siamese cats?? He does have fluid in his lung so she gave him an antibiotic (exceed, I believe).  I asked her if his urine incontinence might be due to a tumor or something.  She said that there has been nothing that she found that indicates that he has a tumor.  Thought maybe it was from the amount of fluids given.  When I asked if the fluids could have caused his lung issue, she said no because sub-q's don't do that, only IV fluids.  She also gave him an iron shot because evidently his red blood cells have gone way down again, which they didn't tell me came back in the results from earlier in the week.  I also started him back on the Aranesp.  They gave him more fluids right before I picked him up.  When the tech brought him to me, he had peed all over himself even though the litter box was just a foot from him.  That was surprising because she had said that earlier in the day that he was sitting up next to the front of the cage, loving up the door.  

Quite honestly, if the vet had been there when I picked him up, I probably would have just told her to put him down.  I have decided that I will give the week to see if there is much improvement.  I know that severe anemia and not eating or drinking can cause some, if not all of the issues that he has been having.  But, it could be cancer, too.  The Aranesp takes awhile to build up in his system and I'm not sure how long the iron shot will take to help.  I have started syringe feeding him and giving him Pedialyte.  I am giving him 6 cc of a/d food about every hour and the same amount of Pedialyte.  I am kind of upset with myself because I did not know that he needed that much before.  I would see him eat a few bites of food and drink just a little bit, and thought that was enough.  I attributed the weight loss and muscle weakness to the problems he was having with IBD and old age when it could actually be from not getting nearly enough nutrients and the anemia.  
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi Sulcal.I'm sorry your bay is not right.i have to disagree about subq fluids.Subq or iv fluids can build up in a cat causing heart problem if there is a underlying heart condition.The huffing to me is just that.So I have seen as little as 60 mls of fluid which is nothing bring on cardiac arrest.This is subq as this is all we give.We are not vets and give IV fluids.There should have been an echo done on your kitties heart.And only done by a qualified sonographer.I Don't want you to give up hope for Sully.And believe me nothing is your fault.You are doing everything you can but I feel personally you are not have the expertise that you are paying for to help your baby.Just being honest.I have belonged to many groups(12) in fact dealing with almost everything a kitty can get.Read many posts of members sharing their experiences.that is truly what it is sharing.Learning.Yes food is life & most of us have no idea just how much food it does take to syringe a kitty to keep them afloat.Alot.I have been there.Very time consuming work that you cannot rush.Can I ask you to please join this group? The feline pancreatic group has many "Seasoned Members" who can read bloodwork like nothing and deal with & have dealt with for yrs their kitties illnesses whether it be cancer,pancreatitis,triaditis,IBD.Liver problems etc.Their wealth of knowledge is superior.I am concerned about the fluids.Although yes a dehydrated cat from not enough food fluid therapy if underlying conditions exist can be trying.I believe there is an underlying condition in your baby.Cats don't huff.There is a reason & the accidental urination is another.Cats are clean animals & the only way they can tell us just how sick they are is by doing something that we notice.I have seen as much as 300 mls put into a cat & did fine although I would never recommend but also like i said out of the blue a kitty with no known problems has 60mls & goes into cardiac arrest.PLS join this group asap .Making your post New Member Pls help Older Kitty huffing I think I'm losing HIm Urgent!!Ok?Also have I given you the link to the fiv group where Joel is the owner.Smaller group but superb in dealing with FIV & it's complications.Here are both links & don't give up hope!!! Kitty needs you to be stronger than ever now!!i know how hard it is.Just hang on for his sake.Please get some more input from other members who know about fluid therapy,assist feeding,fiv,& just helping an elderly kitty.I will give you the assisted feeding group as well.Pls have all documents of any test you have had done ready as the Panc group can read all test results as they are truly amazing.You are privy to all test results in paper form for your Boy.Everything.There was a member here who was dealing with acute pancreatitis whom I recommended that group.joining that group & learning they aspirated 600 mls from the abdominal cavity of that kitty.Huge.And the owner of that group had had the same exact thing done with her kitty & helped him alot!!!!What was the pain  med for??Did they feel he was in pain & if so where?As we all know kitties hide pain so well.if only they could speak.Pls join all of them .You will have to join yahoo if you don't already belong there.Just google making an account with yahoo.It's free & hopefully fast.It has been yrs since I joined & i know things ,protocols have changed but persevere.OK And please keep me updated on his progress.Sending you very possible vibes to you & your Boy for strength,courage to forge forward with feeding & getting some answers..Hugs C.Here are the links:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Feline_Pancreatitis_Support/info

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/info

[email protected]

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5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style><![endif]https://groups.yahoo.com/group/fiv-healthscience

HTH Honey during this very trying time.All these groups being a god send to all us feline lovers.
 
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sulcal

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Thank you for those links.  I joined the FIV group.  I do not have a copy of his bloodwork to post but, I can get them on Monday when they open again.  The vet thought he was in quite a bit of pain when I took him in a couple of weeks ago.  Not sure if that was from the IBD or her believing he had arthritis.  They gave him fluids and he didn't appear to be in much pain but, as you said, it is hard to tell with cats.  I'm just really concerned with his lack of energy.  Since I brought him home on Thursday, he does not move from the spot that I put him in.  He sleeps almost the entire day.  He does not get up to go to the bathroom and only went when I put him in the litter box.  Then, he only had a bowel movement and almost fell over when he was done.  Not sure if this weakness is from the anemia or the fluid, or both.  

Do you know how much I should be giving him for food and fluids?  When he was healthy, he weighed around 11-12 pounds. Early this summer, he was at 9 and now he is at 7.  He is not eating or drinking anything at all, except what I give him. 
 

momofmaxwell

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BC CANADA
Hi Sulcal.

When I was syringe feeding my Maxwell who weighed 7 lbs I syringe fed him max Cal by iams.A vet canned food.it is 330 calories per can.very high in fat & designed for recovery.But it is like gravel.I had to run it through a wire mesh strainer twice with the back side of a tbsp & poush it through into a bowl, before i could syringe it.Because of very tiny bones that would plug up the syringe.Plugged up syringes are extremely dangerous & should be chucked.BTW pls join the assisted feeding group.They are all super, those links.I syringe fed Maxwell who had cancer 9-12 ,25cc syringes of Max cal per day.So over a can.I also didn't count them as whole 25cc syringe fulls as you don't get it all into them.I counted them as 20cc'sworth.Maxwell was a trooper when syringe feeding.I was always told NOT to restrain my animal for subq fluids,medications and especially life saving syringe feeding.So none of my cats in my life did I have to restrain.But do understand that some kitties do need to be.I syringe fed him for 3 months.Straight.Usually 3 syringes per feeding which I had already preloaded & had then soaking tip down in a plastic marg container in hotwater.People have also ran this food through a blender & beat the heck out of it and didn't find they needed to run it through a sieve.Also cutting the very tip of your syringe if tapered will give you a larger opening.They hate cold meat.i did not start at that but everyday I would try to sneak even just a 1/2 syringe full  more.Most people do not use such a lge syringes.They will go with something easier to handle like 3cc or 5cc.I bought them by the case & they were cheap & yes I had syringe before.So I had experience doing it.He was getting roughly between I'd say 350-400 calories per day.In three months he gained 3.8 lbs which he needed to gain as he had lost alot of weight.An average 10 lb kitty in a day will eat approx 180-200 calories per day.I don't know what you are syringing as per foods but A/D  a vet food very palatable for syring but only 180 calories per can.but no bones but you have to syringe more.if starting out you can get that one can into Sulli that is a start.A great start & accomplishment!!!!!if you are working with smaller syringes you can gradually like I did throw another one into the feeding.Gerbers stage 2 babyfood (No onions or garlic) holds over 100 calories per little jar.It can be added to canned meat to add calories.You can freeze it into small icecube trays covered in saran & then when frozen take the cubes & put them into a freezer bag & keep in the freezer.As it does not keep.Take out what you want to use for two days on a plate covered in saran & add to the meat you are syringing.gradually.Chuck any leftovers on that plate after two days & bring out new.Wellness core grain free Turkey from petsmart etc is like 230 calories per tuna size can.Very palatable as well.The vet foods A/D by Hills.Iams maxcal,Medi Cal is another one but only around 180 calories per can all are higher fat content..So you can see it is aalot.But don't get overwhelmed.you hve to start somewhere.But the FAF group has other ideas of getting calories into your babe.I kept a logbook of everything daily for 6 yrs Sulcat.I suggest you do the same for your syringing.Taking some paper & documenting daily what you are getting into your boy.The Kcal which is the calories of the canned food is usually right on the can.Or you can go to www.catinfo.org that link has a huge list of foods,calories,phos,magnesium etc.Or google the company & look online for "Guaranteed analysis" click on that.The vet foods are higher in fat.maxcal being 12% most canned foods are not that.i believe protein is higher as well.14%.Her is their link:   http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrT..._cal.htm/RK=0/RS=7SM5tY3ad8LYyuORRmW6meA5Cos-

Hopefully that doesn't send you to cyberspace.i do that alot as i am not a computer savvy person.i am a mechanic.So give me a wrench & i will flourish.i also wanted to say the pain med sounds like either it helped your boy or fluids.Hard to tell which one.i think the lethargy could be of concern as subq fluid therapy can affect a cat.Too much.And I'll provide you the links.You may want to find out what pain med it was.buprenorphine is well tolerated by cats.Liquid form put into a syringe but NOT syringed down the throat.rather placed just inside the mouth against the cheek wall & absorbed into the mucous of the mouth.My Late Trixie who had abdominal cancer 9 yrs old went off food completely. Her heart rate was 240bpm another thing you can monitor with your boy if you can find a cheap stethoscope .Mine was like $20.00 but worked fine.You may also be able to hear wheezing which would be of major concern.Anyways once her tumor was removed & the pain was now gone she ate on her own.Her heartrate went down to the reg 160bpm.It is a very potent medication so the dosing i never went by my vet as it was way too high & Trixie was right out of it.I cut it in half.So definitely pain can cause inappetance big time.Another thing I learned is i took her temp with a child's digital thermometer,small amount of vaseline.her core temp in the last week of her life was below 37 degrees celcius.Another symptom.As per fluid therapy and affecting a heart(undiagnosed problem) of a kitty here are some links to confirm my knowledge that I have learned as per hearts & fluid therapy.Any other questions don't hesitate.We are all here routing for you & sending strength & positive things your way & Big Hugs to Sulli.You can do this!!!!!!!Here are the links regarding fluids & cats.HTH 

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Sorry about the typos I can only imagine.LOL Hugs to you & Sulli.C in BC Canada :)P.S. I am concerned about fluid being in possibly the abdominal cavity or pls read about hearts & what too much fluids can do.I think a pain med may be in order as well.**Note** I am NOT a Vet*** Pls Advise with your Vet before proceeding**but not feeding.Go ahead.Food is Life.If your vet is not open go with Wellness core for now & then on Monday as it requires a script if you are in the US which is strange, then get it from him/her or a script for another high fat,high calorie food.Here in Canada i can purchase vet formulas from any vet without a script.I think that is stupid.Any open mouth breathing is an emerg & needs to be addressed asap.

Is that the picture of Sulli in your profile?????Hugs keep an eye out on Bm's as well.What goes in must come out.
 
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