Not sure we can do this anymore, suggestions needed ASAP!

[chrisbrault]

Dusty and Lily are still confined to the bedroom. We aren't getting anywhere. Have been playing with them, they'll play to an extent, but take off when you try to pet them. Instead of getting better, they've both gotten worse. It's like having two barn cats living in my room. My kids can't enjoy them, my husband is getting irratated that all they do is destroy stuff. They climb the curtains all the way to the ceiling, run around like they are insane....I get that part of that is being kittens, I've had kitttens, I'm cool with that. But I'm not cool with two basically wild animals. I don't know if they'll ever be pettable, it breaks my heart to admit it. I just told my husband, I do love them but I truly don't feel that bond with them. We've been fostering a small dog for a few days and I honestly feel more of a bond with her, and that's really sad....
They are due to be fixed - both Dusty and Lily - on Saturday. They are about 4 mo old now, so again, I expect a lot of the crazy behavior at this stage of kittenhood. But I can't touch them. They hiss, they run and hide.
I don't know what to do. I don't want to have to give them up but at the same time, I don't want it to be like this.
Help...suggestions....I'm really feeling like I made a mistake right now. I keep trying to read your success stories and feel better, but all I'm feeling right now is a little bit lost.

 

[chrisbrault]

I want to add that we've still been trying to let them explore us, via toys, treats, etc. but thats not doing anything. They like fishing toys, they steal my shoes. We do NOT lock them up in a kennel, they run across us in bed at night and so forth. But we just got to this point and stopped. More, moved backward, since we can't even pet them now, and before, Dusty was letting us sometimes.

 

[white cat lover]

The biggest thing I can tell you, is that it takes time.

I brought home a 7 week old kitten to foster, she was very feral, and going to be euthanized. Albiet she was younger than these kittens, the best advice/thoughts given was that often kitties are 5-7 months before they really "domesticate".

I had to work very hard with Gumby (formerly known as Camille). I had to feed her right from my hand, I had to just sit in the room & talk to her.

This was my initial thread - with me not knowing what I was doing, or what I had gotten myself into.

Here is a thread when she really made a turning point.

It awesome to watch her purr-sonality develop. She cackles, she trills, she dances - she's not a "domestic" cat, she's.....purr-fect. She carries toys all over the place, wags her tail like a dog, and we're purr-fecting how to sit & shake!

I did have to restrict her somewhat, in terms of her interaction with other animals in the household. Until she trusted me, she ended up confined, sometimes alone, in a bedroom. I didn't want to let her loose in the house & not be able to handle her again! Every single time I approached her, she got a treat. She got wet food a lot - but she had to eat from the plate right next to me & let me pet her.

That said, she is now almost 5 months old & has been available for adoption for 3 months - with zero interest. I thought I had a rescue to consider taking her, but they won't.

 

[chrisbrault]

I'm trying to be patient, honestly I am. Part of me is ready to just open the bedroom door and give them free roam again, knowing they'll just hide. Some people are fine with that, I'm just not. If we had another kitty who liked us, then I'd be ok with it. But life with two invisible streaks...I am just so confused. I really, really don't want to give up. but my bedroom smells like a litter box (they've NEVER missed using the box, that's their best attribute right now!), they push the water dish around and knock all the water out - if we had a pair of insane kittens who were at least personable, you know?
Thanks for sharing Camille's story with me. We've had these two for almost 2 months now.
On an incidental note, Dusty is quite the chatterbox, he cracks me up!

 

[ldg]

Our kitties weren't pettable at four months... but they did sleep with us.

If I recall correctly, Dusty was OK and didn't hide when not confined to one room? But Lily would bolt and hide up in the ceiling?

Maybe try separating them and seeing what happens if you take Dusty out of the room?

They may be reinforcing each other's behavior at this point.

Maybe wait until spay/neuter day, and release Lily into the bedroom and Dusty wherever he was most comfortable. I'm a little concerned about the dog.... so actually, I don't know if having Dusty outside the bedroom is such a good idea. The dog complicates things. ...maybe... take one them into the bathroom with you when you can devote an hour every day and just sit in there and read out loud? Talk softly and reassuringly... Try to brush them? (Cheeks only at first).

As Nat points out, food goes a long way to helping them come around. If you try the bathroom thing, maybe give one pet on a cheek, and give a treat? Do this every 10 minutes?

I really don't know what to say other than it takes time. Working with food, with scent, and with positive reinforcement are really the only tools. Is there a sweaty t-shirt that smells like you under the food dish? Do you put treats down frequently after playing on a sweaty t-shirt? Do you praise them whenever they're being "good?"

Have you tried Feliway?
Did anyone suggest these CDs?
http://www.musicmypet.com
http://www.catfaeries.com/music-for-cats.html
What about Bachs Flower Essences? http://www.bachflower.com/Pets.htm Add it to the water, dab some under their chins, behind their ears, and at the base of their tails (daily).

for you and for them.

 

[ldg]

...as to the water dish, what about tossing the dish and investing in a water fountain? If you get a Drinkwell with a mat underneath it, they can play with the water, but I doubt they can dump the fountain. http://www.amazon.com/Drinkwell-FWB-.../dp/B00063446M

 

[white cat lover]

Feral kittens aren't just going to wake up one day & be friendly, unfortunately (if they were we'd have more success adopting them out at the shelter!). They take a lot more work than your "average" cat, but trust me - when Gumby finally came around - beyond well worth it.

 

[chrisbrault]

I sort of wondered about seperating them as well, esp post-surgery this coming weekend. Dusty's curious about what lies beyond the bedroom door, and I wonder if some of the insane behavior is them being cooped up in a 16x16 room? With this cold weather my son is staying downstairs on the couch and we've blocked the stairway to the upstairs, so the cats would not be able to get up there at all. Dog (a little shihzu who actually likes the outdoor kitties) will likely only be here a couple more days - thats another sad story of neglect and a horrible excuse for a humane society locally that cant accept animals the local dogcatcher picks up, so I did her a favor and a family came to meet the pup today.
I don't have a shirt under food or to put under treats - they really refuse to eat treats for the most part and wont touch canned food at all! I lay a treat down and if they come near it they snatch it and take off, I cant get far enough to have one in my hand to have them eat out of.
And why the heck do they shove the water bowl around untilk it is empty? That makes me nuts!! We've been treating the water with kitty valium off and on, not sure how much they get before the water goes flying.
We play with them a lot, talk to them constantly, make sure the kids are in here often with them too. They watch us, just wont let us near them. Brushing them cant happen, there is no way to get close enough.

 

[chrisbrault]

My MIL has one of those drinkwells, I wondered about that myself. NEVER in dozens of cats, have I had one do this...it's weird!

 

[ldg]

Aw, I'm so sorry about the dog.

Whenever doggie leaves, then I'd really consider having Dusty outside the room. See what separating them does.

...and consider trying the Bach's Flower Essences and Feliway combo rather than the kitty valium.

...Sadly, at 4 months, they're really not at a cuddly stage.

Have you tried Gerber's chicken baby food? Most cats bonk for that. Chicken. (I think cats have trouble digesting ham). If they like it, you can then put some on a spoon and hold it out for them to lick off. If they do, next day, hold it a little closer to you. The whole time, talk softly... "such a good kitty" kind of thing. When they seem comfortable with that, use your finger.

Have you tried fancy feast wet food? Again, a lot of cats like that that don't otherwise like wet food. You can do the same thing with this as the baby food if they like it. Just keep trying different things to find what "gets" them. With one of ours, it was warm shrimp.

 

[ldg]

Originally Posted by chrisbrault

My MIL has one of those drinkwells, I wondered about that myself. NEVER in dozens of cats, have I had one do this...it's weird!

I really don't mean to laugh, because I can see how annoying it would be. But there was a member here who had a cat that was OBSESSED with dropping things in the water dish. EVERYTHING went in there.

 

[chrisbrault]

Baby food? interesting, will get some tomorow! The wet food we tried was first Friskies, and also the Kitten wet food sold at PetSmart....so maybe you are right that we should try something else.
Everyone raves over the Feliway, so I'll look into that as well.I think I just need a boost, I really thought we'd be making more headway and hubby and I are both kinda ready to have our bedroom back. It's like having a baby again - they roam all night, destroy the room, make BIG stinkys and are, right now, just generally making us nuts.

 

[chrisbrault]

I do know they're coming up on the bed at night, two nights ago I caught dusty sitting on the pillow whacking my husband in the head with his paw. When I softly told him he shouldn't do that to daddy, I got a dirty look!

 

[white cat lover]

Just wanted to add in - Gumby is now almost 5 months old. She's gotten into the "rebellious" phase - she's acting less friendly, into things more, etc - but when it comes to bedtime, I know she's still my Gumby, cuz she wants her snuggles.

 

[auntie crazy]

I'm very sorry this is making you so frustrated, Chrisbrault! <<<Hugs!>>>

I've socialized two litters, but the first one was (in retrospect) fairly easy to do and for the second litter, I had tons and tons of TCS help, so I don't have any good advice to offer you. If you'd like to read through a "blog" of sorts on the progress of the second litter it's here and here - maybe something in there will give you some ideas or encouragement.

Thank you for what you're doing, both for the kittens and the dog!

 

[killerapple]

I'm sorry you're at a down time. It is frustrating! I will give you a success story I had with a difficult kitten.

This summer, we found a litter of kittens - the litter was 4, but we were only able to get 3 of them. The 4th one was kept will hidden by momma for months... But anyways, the 3 I had were about 6 weeks old, little hissers. Just terrified of me. I kept all 3 in a small bathroom and would spend lots of time with them and they would just be terrified... I'd wait for them to fall asleep, and I would start petting them (the only time I could touch them at first). Then I was able to get 2 of them to purr by day 5!!! I was thrilled.

Eventually, I had 2 lovable crazy kittens. They were so much darn fun. But the third one that I couldn't get to purr? He was just terrified of people still - would run all over the place from me. Would play with his brothers (but not as confident as they did), but just would always hiss at me and was terrified. After having all 3 for a month, you couldn't really tell that 2 were formal outside kittens - but you sure could tell with our 3rd. (By this point, they all had access to full finished basement - not full house yet.) When the friendly 2 got adopted together (at around 3 months old), it forced him to get friendly with me. Being stuck alone, he had to accept us humans. He purred for the first time within 30 hours of being 'an only cat'. Sure, it was on his terms - I would have to crawl under a table and get to him, but he would be purring. Eventually he would come out for me to purr. Little by little, he crawled out of his shell and became more trusting. Weeks later, he was acting totally normal and trusting. We then let him have access to rest of house, after we knew he wouldn't hide.

Now? Months later? He is my fantastic Batman! Mr. Lovable. Sometimes it's hard to believe. He was so painfully shy and terrified of the world. But as soon as he was alone, he really warmed up us.

Long story short, perhaps one on one time will help.

(As far as the 4th kitten, that one eventually did get trapped - and a rescue group took him in. They are keeping me posted on how he is doing - he is still very shy, but improving. I took in the mom cat and am currently socializing her. It's a lot of work!)

 

[ldg]

Originally I thought Lily would learn "happy" behavior with humans from Dusty. But it's looking very much like separating them is going to be key to moving forward with them now.

 

[chrisbrault]

Hubby has the food bowl on his chest tonight, we starved them out all day today and so far, Dusty's sitting on his chest eating but shying away quite a lot. Lily's watching from a chair at the foot of the bed. think we're going to keep trying that til sat when thy go to get fixed and play it from there.

Thanks for those who are sharing successes with me, it really does help. killerapple's story sounds a lot like what is going on here!

 

[mschauer]

I have a document with step by step instructions on how to socialize feral cats. It was written by an animal rescue group that developed the technique when they were faced with having to socialize a large number of ferals. I haven't tried it myself. If you would be interested in it PM me an external email address I can send it to.

 

[strange_wings]

I'm sorry to hear your kittens are still rather wild.

I replied on your previous threads - I took in three feral kittens around the same time that are close in age to your two. Maybe it's because I didn't really give my kittens a choice? They were going to be held daily, brushed, claws trimmed, and checked over - no matter if they hissed at first or not. They're still a little skittish to some things, but for the most part they're now normal socialized kittens (the little boy has turned into a clingy cuddler - he likes to lay on my neck..). One difference is also that I have 4 adult cats in the home.

I bribed mine with bits of chicken, turkey, and roast

And lots of toys. Could you try offering tiny bites of unseasoned baked/boiled chicken in return for petting sessions?

Another thing that I do with all of my cats, is that if I'm walking up to them or standing above them, I'll wiggle my fingers.

It worked with getting the kittens used to me walking up to and petting them - because I was giving them a clear signal that I was going to pet them.