new to raw

[soysos]

I currently have three cats, an eight pound 3 year old male named PJ, a 6 pound 2 year old female named midget, and a 2 year old 10 pounder teddy. I have done a lot of research on cat food in the last few months because PJ has some serius health problums. it is all related to his bad teeth. his gums are so swollen that he doesn't chew his kibble, he just swallows it whole and ends up eating so much he pukes most of it back up. he also has skin problums that I know irritates him with all the scraching. I tried switching to a canned diet, and he did gain weight, but his gummes got worse, teeth fell out. worse than that teddys gums started to swell.

anyway after months of research I decided to switch to a raw or mostly raw diet. first I mixed some chicken breast into some canned food and they gobbled it up. next I decided to get a whole chicken boned it and cut the meat into about an inch size pices. at this point PJ is eating about 4oz a day, while midge and teddy get 1oz and 2oz canned. I am still leaving out kibble for them but only about 1/2 cup as apposed to 1 1/2 cup alone. I still leave out the kibble because the only one who needs 100% raw is PJ he wont touch the stuff anyway. as for  the others I'm kinda cheap I plan to use up the canned then go to 1oz twice a day.

my next step is  to first get some organ meat because I know muscle meat alone is not enough. today I called up some butcher shops, you would be suprised how many are closed on monday. anyway I found a steady supply of liver kidny and heart for $2/lb and scrap meat for $.29/lb combo of beef, pork, lamb, and goat. I can also get chicken, game hen, turky, duck, and goose at my grosery. for now I figure I'll stick with the scrap and chicken, maybe some duck. I will also give them ground chicken wings for bone, until there jaws are stronger then I'll try some whole bones. and a mix of beef kidny and liver once a day, and the occational bit of heart for a treat. is this a good plan?

the only real issue I've had since starting raw is the same as I had with the canned. as it turnes out teddy is a nervous eater, hew will not eat around the other cats and even if he is seperate he is costantly looking up and around. he sumtimes runs off with hunks of meat, bit of an issue with carpet. for now have to bring his bowl to him. the only other solution I can think of is to lock him in the other bathroom so he's alone. any feedback is greatly appriciated.

oh I feel I should mention after only three days of raw feeding the swelling in PJ's gums has gotten a lot better, and he's running around like a kitten again.

 

[maxkitteh]

Raw is really an optimal diet for cats, and it sounds like you're aware of the necessity for balance: muscle meat, organ meat and bone (ground or intact, but as you mentioned one of your cats had inflamed gums). 

I think you're on the right track! I have the same problem with my 5 month old little Burmese (Max), because if I give him chicken on the bone (which he LOVES and treats as if it's the most awesome prize) then he ends up carrying it to a spot where he can relax and eat for as long as it takes. So, what I may do in the future is get a very large portable (folding) cage and just have him eat his meat-on-bone in the cage so he doesn't drag it around the house, but I really don't want to upset him either with any cages, or associate being caged with eating....so I am leery of this method especially because he eats so well with raw otherwise, and chews his boneless steak/chicken and organ meat right in the bowl, with Primal brand raw formula for bone and other nutrients. 

Good on ya for going raw. You can buy boneless meats too, but the meat-on-bone is ideal for teeth-cleaning. Perhaps try the cage thing...I may try it myself in a bit, but little Max is still a kitten so he eats quite frequently...and  right now he's free-feeding raw (so he can eat whenever he likes). I change the meal morning and evening, and sometimes 3 times a day (he'll eat up to a point where he stops thinking of the food as fresh enough. In the wild, cats might even bury their food and come back to it, and I've seen Max even pawing around his dish to 'cover' up his food. Cute. 

Also, you'll want to use the right proportion..mostly muscle meat and about 5% organ (mix it up) and bone. Watch the stool to make sure it's firm and small, but if it's too runny you'll need more bone and if he's straining you'll need more organ meat. 

I also vary the diet Max gets quite a bit...using different flavors of Primal formula each day, supplemented always with fresh chicken/beef and once in a while, half a sardine in spring water. He's a very happy kitty and he LOVES meat on the bone, so I really have to figure out how to get him to stay at his bowl when he eats, or cage him for these treats. I have him on video too, which I might post here soon. 

Good luck!

 

[soysos]

so, apperently I'm going  to have to re-think my feeding plan. originally I had portioned out two whole chickens, as well as some odds and ends, beef kidny, chicken livers, beef heart, a terky hind quarter, things like that. anyway I portioned it out into 4oz portions and set them in three bags in the freezer, one with all muscle meat chicken, one about 10-20% bone 10-20% organ, and a third with the beef heart and turky labled 3-5x a week.

my plan was to feed them a meal from the second bag in the morning and the first bag at night. the problum I'm having is that they have no problum eating their dinner but breakfast ends up all over the floor. I think I'm just doing too much too soon they only started eating raw a week ago they probably can't handle the bones yet. so how should I do this.

I figure I will just feed them their breakfast as I have been give it about half an hour leave whats left for the feral kitten running around, then give them a little kibble to get  them through. until of corse they start eating the bones. will this work or would it be better to give them a little bone with both meals?

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by soysos  
...

...the only real issue I've had since starting raw is the same as I had with the canned. as it turnes out teddy is a nervous eater, hew will not eat around the other cats and even if he is seperate he is costantly looking up and around. he sumtimes runs off with hunks of meat, bit of an issue with carpet. for now have to bring his bowl to him. the only other solution I can think of is to lock him in the other bathroom so he's alone. any feedback is greatly appriciated.

oh I feel I should mention after only three days of raw feeding the swelling in PJ's gums has gotten a lot better, and he's running around like a kitten again.

Hi, Soysos! Welcome to TCS!

I have six cats, one of which, Rachel, is a very skittish eater. She was very thin as a kitten on commercial food and only started putting on weight when I switched to raw. Even then, however, I had to really coax her to eat and she didn't always finish everything on her plate. That all stopped when I began crating my cats for meals (to keep them from running off with the food); now, she feels secure and comfortable and isn't afraid to take her time eating (and her weight is perfect!). Maybe crating would help Teddy feel comfortable, too?
 

so, apperently I'm going  to have to re-think my feeding plan. originally I had portioned out two whole chickens, as well as some odds and ends, beef kidny, chicken livers, beef heart, a terky hind quarter, things like that. anyway I portioned it out into 4oz portions and set them in three bags in the freezer, one with all muscle meat chicken, one about 10-20% bone 10-20% organ, and a third with the beef heart and turky labled 3-5x a week.

my plan was to feed them a meal from the second bag in the morning and the first bag at night. the problum I'm having is that they have no problum eating their dinner but breakfast ends up all over the floor. I think I'm just doing too much too soon they only started eating raw a week ago they probably can't handle the bones yet. so how should I do this.

I figure I will just feed them their breakfast as I have been give it about half an hour leave whats left for the feral kitten running around, then give them a little kibble to get  them through. until of corse they start eating the bones. will this work or would it be better to give them a little bone with both meals?

The problem here is probably that you're feeding too much organ in a single meal. A cat's typical prey consists of lots of meat with a little bit of bone and a little bit of organ; your "breakfasts" consist entirely of organ and bone and the cats' tummies are simply unable to process that.

Spread the bone and organ out more by mixing it with more meat. You can review these two TCS threads for more info / examples: Natural Diet Information Resources and What does your menu look like?

Good luck!

AC

 

[soysos]

so, still no luck with the bones. that kitten out side is eating  like a king. I'm still ding one raw meal suplimented with raw muscle meat. teddy is at least eating his organs, PJ loves liver but he spits out the kidny maybe I should try to get some other organ, I can deffinatly get brain does that count? anytime I give them something with bone they don't even touch it. I'm going to try cutting down some cornish hens tomarrow to see if smaller bones with a lot of meat will at least get them started. how do you teach a cat to eat bones, its like they don't know how.

 

[auntie crazy]

so, still no luck with the bones. that kitten out side is eating  like a king. I'm still ding one raw meal suplimented with raw muscle meat. teddy is at least eating his organs, PJ loves liver but he spits out the kidny maybe I should try to get some other organ, I can deffinatly get brain does that count? anytime I give them something with bone they don't even touch it. I'm going to try cutting down some cornish hens tomarrow to see if smaller bones with a lot of meat will at least get them started. how do you teach a cat to eat bones, its like they don't know how.

You've put your finger right on it, Soysos - your kitties have never had to do anything but lick and swallow their foods, so they truly don't know what to do with foods that require more effort.

Do I understand you correctly? You're feeding only one raw meal a day? And I'm a bit confused, what is "one raw meal supplemented with raw muscle meat" mean? Hmm, are you feeding a commercial raw ground meal and supplementing it with chunks of muscle meat? What, exactly, and how often, are you feeding your cats?

Have you read the transition articles on CatInfo.org (refers to a transition of kibble to canned, but still helpful in concept), RawFedCats.org or RadFood.com? You need to start with very small pieces of meat and only start introducing them to bone-in meals when they are comfortably eating tough, large chunks of meat. Thin but long meat strips are great starters, as they encourage the cat to turn his head and use his shearing teeth (possibly for the first time in his life) and they're easy to cut through. Once he gets used to actually using his teeth, you can slowly make the chunks larger and work your way up to tough meats, like gizzards, and then on to bone-in meals (again starting with very small pieces).

AC

 

[soysos]

sorry I ment to say kibble diet supplimented with one meal of muscle meat. as for the mucle meat they are eating fairly large hunks, they can even gobble up beef heart and turky gizzards with no problum. the pieces I give them with bones are smaller than what I give them without and I use only the smallest bones, wing tips, rib cage, things like that. I had better luck  with cooked he would knaw the meat off and leave the bone, raw he won't even touch it.

 

[auntie crazy]

Never feed cooked bones, no matter the size - they can splinter and cause all kinds of unpleasantness.

Persistence and patience are going to be your best allies, Soysos. Review those transition articles and keep trying the different tricks. Make your bone-in pieces even smaller than you already are... sooner or later, your boy will venture to try them and you definitely want him to have a positive, successful experience the first time he does. Cats are easily discouraged, so setting him up for success is important.

There are folks have needed months to fully transition their cats, and found it to be worth the time and effort invested. Don't lose hope! 

AC