new to raw feeding

[haley]

Hello

I hope you guys can help me out i have a 3 months old male persian and a couple of days i started giving him raw chicken breast(boneless) half baked and he likes it!!  and i will buy thighs tomorrow because i read here it's better for him. And i give him dry food just once in a day but he doesn't eat a lot of dry food.

is their anything else i miss? the problem is i don't live in the US so i don't have all that extra vitamins you mix with the raw diet but my vet gave me vitamins mix(drops) he said it's good but i don't know what do you think? is this enough or do i have to add more to his diet. 

and one last Q how do i know if the chicken is 25 or 50% cooked? because i bake it for 15 min and it's white not pink but you can tell it's raw and it's not cooked.

 

[Willowy]

You don't need to add a lot of vitamins . Just try to think of what a cat eats in the wild--whole animals. So, if you can't give him whole animals, you have to try to piece together a reasonable substitute. So he needs some bones (raw bones only! Never ever give cooked bones!), some organs, and some meat. The usual recommendation is 80% meat, 10% bones (small ones like chicken ribs or wings), and 10% organs (half of that should be liver and the other half another organ, like kidney or spleen). And feed a lot of different kinds of meat, and a lot of different cuts of meat. You don't need to bake it at all if he'll eat it raw--cooking changes some of the nutrients. That kind of diet should have all the vitamins he needs .

 

[carolina]

You don't need to add a lot of vitamins . Just try to think of what a cat eats in the wild--whole animals. So, if you can't give him whole animals, you have to try to piece together a reasonable substitute. So he needs some bones (raw bones only! Never ever give cooked bones!), some organs, and some meat. The usual recommendation is 80% meat, 10% bones (small ones like chicken ribs or wings), and 10% organs (half of that should be liver and the other half another organ, like kidney or spleen). And feed a lot of different kinds of meat, and a lot of different cuts of meat. You don't need to bake it at all if he'll eat it raw--cooking changes some of the nutrients. That kind of diet should have all the vitamins he needs .

Where are you?
How is the quality/freshness of the meat you get there?
If you are concerned with parasites, toxoplasmosis, etc, freeze the meat. Toxo will be mostly killed by freezing the meat for 3 days. Most other parasites, will be killed if you freeze the meat for 7 days.
Make sure to buy the meat degutted. Parasites are found in the guts - stomach, intestines and such. Organs are fine, and you need them.
Lungs and hearts are considered muscle meat, the same as breast, legs, etc, when you calculate your percentages.
By feeding a raw diet in the right proportions you will feed all your kitty needs - just make sure the meat is clean and fresh.
You can feed a sardine or two a week for omega-3, and natural yoghurt, as probiotics, daily, if you don't have probiotics in capsules (that would be preferred).

What meats do you have available there, besides chicken?
Welcome to the raw forum!!

 

[ldg]

I can't add anything to what's already been posted, other than to emphasize just how important calcium is! Meat and vitamins are NOT enough. Meat has a lot of phosphorus in it, and phosphorus and calcium work together - which is why the "natural package" of food a cat eats (small rodents) is perfect for them. The calcium in the bones is balanced with the phosphorus in the meat.

But if you follow the proportions posted above - 80% meat, 10% bone (RAW ONLY - cooked bones will SPLINTER), 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ like pancreas, kidney, or spleen (and a combination or rotation of those is just fine!), he'll be getting what he needs!

Just stick to the small bones - wing tips, maybe the chicken ribs...


The sardines (we used tinned in water with no salt) are a great addition as a snack - so is a raw egg yolk once or twice a week. :nod:

I give my kitties a probiotic in a capsule, but as Carolina says, if that's not available, some yogurt (just make sure it has live cultures in it) will work too!

To figure out the amounts, just calculate how much food your kitty will eat each week. Then you can calculate the amounts of each component of the diet (the meat, the bones, and the organs) based on the percent. Most people balance the meal over the course of a week. So, for instance, if you feed kitty three meals a day, 3-4 times a week, she'd get a bone-in meal. And 2-4x a week, she'd get a meal that is half organ, half meat (most cats can't eat organs all at once. They never would in the wild. ).

Please - feel free to ask any questions! And you might find this website helpful: http://www.CatCentric.org And CatCentric.org has a Facebook page too, if you're on FB.

 

[haley]

Thank you all so much you helped me alot !! i appreciate it thanks.

But .. about the bones, i'm afraid to give it to my kitten can i use dicalcium phosphate for cats instead? if i can .. then it will be 85% and 15% organs or i'm wrong? (the meat is thighs and the organs are liver and kidney)

And what do you think about adding ( taurine capsules - Morton Lite salt with iodine - fish oil ) i read in catinfo that we have to add them.

Again .. thank you all .

 

[carolina]

Well, I don't feed bones, I supplement it with calcium instead. I use eggshell powder - easy.

The organ percentage remains the same - 5% liver and 5% of other organs. No need to add salt.
I do add taurine powder - you don't NEED to (when feeding chunks of meat, you DO need to add when feeding ground), but I do as a safety precaution......
Taurine is never too much, and too little can cause big issues, so I just just add the daily requirement to their diets, 200mg.

Here is how to make Calcium from eggshells:

Wash the eggshells and remove the membranes. Dry, bake them for 30 minutes on 350F. Crumble them into a fine powder in a food processor, blender or with a pillar.
1/32 TSP will balance 1oz of muscle meat.
3/64 tsp of eggshells will balance an ounce of meat.

 

[mschauer]

And what do you think about adding ( taurine capsules - Morton Lite salt with iodine - fish oil ) i read in catinfo that we have to add them.

The catinfo.org web site is owned by a veterinarian, Dr. Lisa Pierson, who has been feeding a raw diet for many years. She performs regular tests on her cats to detect, as much as is practical, 

any nutritional deficiencies that might result from the diet she recommends. Her web site includes the reasons for adding the supplements she uses in her food recipe.

The people here are not veterinarian professionals and some of the most active posters are relative new comers to raw feeding.

In other words, it would make more sense for you to ask Dr. Pierson what she thinks of the opinions posted here rather than the other way around. 

 

[carolina]

Dr. Pierson feeds a ground diet, not frankerprey. Frankerprey doesn't require the same supplements as ground.

 

[auntie crazy]

Welcome to TCS, Haley!

Yep, there's a difference when feeding whole chunks of meat, bone-in meals, and organs (Prey Model Raw), and feeding a diet that's been ground to a paste. The former needs no supplements, the later is rarely fed without them.

Haley, please don't be afraid to feed your cat raw, bone-in meals. They are very healthy and not only include calcium, but trace amounts of many other important nutrients. Marrow - found inside most bones - is nutrient dense, and the tendons and cartilage that are often attached to bones are healthy in their own right. Cosequin is a very popular joint supplement that contains joint cartilage; if you feed bone-in meals, your chances of ever needing such a supplement are greatly reduced.

Bone-in meals also provide unparalleled oral health benefits, keeping the teeth clean and the gums healthy and well supplied by blood through the scrapping and massaging actions inherent in the eating process.
 

In addition, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that cats derive a psychological satisfaction from crunching through bones and shearing through meat chunks. They're seem calmer and more satisfied in general.

Finally, there's nothing more to fear from feeding raw bones than from feeding raw chunks. I have six cats who started on raw when they were about three years old, two years old and five months old and they've been fine after years of bone-in meals. And there are thousands many who feed PMR with no issues.

On another note, as someone previously mentioned, you should try feeding the meat completely raw, as cooking it depletes the nutrients that make it so healthy in the first place.

AC

 

[mschauer]

Dr. Pierson feeds a ground diet, not frankerprey. Frankerprey doesn't require the same supplements as ground.

Good point. Since the poster referenced Dr. P's web site I assumed the questions were in reference to the type of diet she recommends. Not necessarily a good assumption.

 

[carolina]

3/64 tsp of eggshells will balance an ounce of meat.

That was supposed to say organs, but I can't edit anymore.... Sorry about that!

 

[crackers]

I'm curious about the recommendation to feed my cat raw chicken wing tips.  I normally buy my chicken "fresh" and then portion them (yes, we're talking a small household) and then freeze the portions.  Inevitably I have a bounty of wings sitting in the freezer.  Is it OK to defrost these and feed them to my cat?

 

[auntie crazy]

I'm curious about the recommendation to feed my cat raw chicken wing tips.  I normally buy my chicken "fresh" and then portion them (yes, we're talking a small household) and then freeze the portions.  Inevitably I have a bounty of wings sitting in the freezer.  Is it OK to defrost these and feed them to my cat?

Abso-positively!

  In fact, chicken wings are one of the most frequently offered bone-in meals.

Cut the wing into three pieces at the joints, so you have the tip, the wingette (middle piece), and the drummette (thickest piece). Now cut the wingette between and parallel with the bones. A tip and a wingette makes one bone-in meal for one kitty.

Cut off the thickest part of the skin on the drummette, and then strip the meat off the bone. Voila! You have another great all meat meal! (Throw the trimmed off skin and the bone away.)

AC

 

[crackers]

Thank you.  My cat is 13.5 years old.  I hope she takes to this new treat.  I've never fed her raw. 

 

[crackers]

I'm still stewing over feeding my cat raw.  Has anyone else out there tried changing their cat's diet at the age of ... well ... she will be 14 years old next month?

 

[otto]

I'm still stewing over feeding my cat raw.  Has anyone else out there tried changing their cat's diet at the age of ... well ... she will be 14 years old next month?:rub:

Not 14, but Mazy is 8. I will tell you what someone told me. You don't have to commit to all raw. Just start with a little bit each day. Even a little raw in her diet will benefit her. What are you feeding her now?