New kitten with two 2yr old cats, thrown together ...

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
Hi! I have a question that's gonna sound lamely repetitive, and it's a bit of a long story so please bare with me. Okay, here it goes.

I've had cats most of my life. All rescues. When we first introduced my 4 yr old Siamese/Calico (now deceased) to a 4 week old PixieBob (also now deceased) it was relatively easy as their was a bathroom large enough and "safe enough" to put the kitten in until she was 2 months old. And then we slowly introduced them, they nearly killed each other a few times, but after three weeks they were suddenly great friends. They rarely had territorial fights over anything including me since they were such different personalities. Eventually even introduced a third cat but that one being my mother's didn't disrupt the dynamic much. The Siamese/Calico passed away at 19 1/2 while I was pregnant with my daughter. Due to some crazy circumstances my folks and my family all are in a 3 bedroom condo now so my daughter grew up with the PixieBob and mom's cat. The PixieBob passed away in November at nearly 20 (yes long lived cats). My daughter (4yrs old) was feeling the emptiness left behind by the missing cat and despite my plan to wait at least 6 months to get a new cat, within a month my mom's cat too started not doing well with suddenly being the only cat. So we began looking for a cat that did well with other cats. We ended up finding a pair (male and female) that had been surrendered 3 times together due to owner's sudden "allergies." We dropped the cats into the house and everything was just instantly fine. These cats were wonderful and made my mom's cat's last few months not so lonely but the loss of the PixieBob proved to be just too much for her in the long run.

So now these two BIG cats have been in the house for about 6 months they are well loved and cared for, my daughter loves on them and they are super patient. Yesterday we took the cats in for their teeth cleaning and on our way out we passed where we'd rescued these two from and there was a 3 month old kitten that was having a hard time getting adopted. It was plain to see she looked very much like our PixieBob and my daughter (and my) heart just broke for this little love. She was great with the other cats in the rescue and had been fostered by the same lady who'd fostered ours when they'd first come to the rescue. So we figured they'd all be fine. We currently have no spare bathrooms or bedrooms to segregate the kitten from the cats. I've explained to my daughter that she has to love on her "first 'kitties'" first and then the new kitten. But the younger (female) who WAS the faster adjusted to my mom's cat is just having pissy fits on and off. The male while okay with the new addition is suddenly timid. The kitten isn't being a grump and is being very submissive to both cats. Not meowing or hissing. She's trying to play with them gently. They all get along for a little bit then the older female gets growly and pissy. :/ It's only been a day but I'm now concerned that she's going to become grumpy like my Siamese/Calico was which would break my heart because she has been a loving cat even if her cuddles are only occasional. 

As a last resort last night I ended up locking them ALL in the bedroom with us and my daughter. There was only a little growling but no hissing or anything. The cats normally sleep under the bed because we have a fan that blows on the bed. The kitten ended up sleeping under my chin and the other cats under the bed. I kept a buzz alarm set to check the cats every hour but not one of them even so much as pawed to get out.

The morning routine wasn't the same (despite my efforts) but I know now that would be the case either way because the vet informed me later this morning that both of our older cats hadn't been too thrilled while there and evidently these personality switches flipped AT the vet BEFORE the kitten. So now I'm worried and a fair bit stressed. I am not one to just return a kitten and I want to make this work. I'm pissed at the vet for not informing me of the issues they'd had when we picked up the cats even though I explained that there was a new kitten coming home with us Only IF they were doing well. I was told they were fine, with the exception of the female fighting her IV had gotten her arm bruised up. (Which we came home and for two hours cared for her one on one over.) I'd have left the kitten until Saturday with the rescue had someone at the vet informed me that my cats were severely out of sorts already. But prior to this there was NO indication that these cats would react this way 1) after a trip to the vet and/or 2) to the kitten, so with a big thumbs up from the vet (until the call this morning from their head vet tech) we thought everyone was feeling fine just groggy.

I did also this morning between the broken routine and the call from the vet, as usual to encourage the cats to go downstairs instead of lounge upstairs most of the day, closed the bedrooms/office for an hour. :/ Everything is back open per routine but now that's concerning me.

What can I do to make this bonding go smoother?? We already bought additional toys that were matched to what we already have so that there wouldn't be fighting over that. And we've established with the kitten the handful of "this is ___'s spot" places and she's being good about respecting it. 
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,590
Purraise
5,295
Location
...with the cats...
 
Hi! I have a question that's gonna sound lamely repetitive, and it's a bit of a long story so please bare with me. Okay, here it goes.

I've had cats most of my life. All rescues. When we first introduced my 4 yr old Siamese/Calico (now deceased) to a 4 week old PixieBob (also now deceased) it was relatively easy as their was a bathroom large enough and "safe enough" to put the kitten in until she was 2 months old. And then we slowly introduced them, they nearly killed each other a few times, but after three weeks they were suddenly great friends. They rarely had territorial fights over anything including me since they were such different personalities. Eventually even introduced a third cat but that one being my mother's didn't disrupt the dynamic much. The Siamese/Calico passed away at 19 1/2 while I was pregnant with my daughter. Due to some crazy circumstances my folks and my family all are in a 3 bedroom condo now so my daughter grew up with the PixieBob and mom's cat. The PixieBob passed away in November at nearly 20 (yes long lived cats). My daughter (4yrs old) was feeling the emptiness left behind by the missing cat and despite my plan to wait at least 6 months to get a new cat, within a month my mom's cat too started not doing well with suddenly being the only cat. So we began looking for a cat that did well with other cats. We ended up finding a pair (male and female) that had been surrendered 3 times together due to owner's sudden "allergies." We dropped the cats into the house and everything was just instantly fine. These cats were wonderful and made my mom's cat's last few months not so lonely but the loss of the PixieBob proved to be just too much for her in the long run.

So now these two BIG cats have been in the house for about 6 months they are well loved and cared for, my daughter loves on them and they are super patient. Yesterday we took the cats in for their teeth cleaning and on our way out we passed where we'd rescued these two from and there was a 3 month old kitten that was having a hard time getting adopted. It was plain to see she looked very much like our PixieBob and my daughter (and my) heart just broke for this little love. She was great with the other cats in the rescue and had been fostered by the same lady who'd fostered ours when they'd first come to the rescue. So we figured they'd all be fine. We currently have no spare bathrooms or bedrooms to segregate the kitten from the cats. I've explained to my daughter that she has to love on her "first 'kitties'" first and then the new kitten. But the younger (female) who WAS the faster adjusted to my mom's cat is just having pissy fits on and off. The male while okay with the new addition is suddenly timid. The kitten isn't being a grump and is being very submissive to both cats. Not meowing or hissing. She's trying to play with them gently. They all get along for a little bit then the older female gets growly and pissy. :/ It's only been a day but I'm now concerned that she's going to become grumpy like my Siamese/Calico was which would break my heart because she has been a loving cat even if her cuddles are only occasional. 

As a last resort last night I ended up locking them ALL in the bedroom with us and my daughter. There was only a little growling but no hissing or anything. The cats normally sleep under the bed because we have a fan that blows on the bed. The kitten ended up sleeping under my chin and the other cats under the bed. I kept a buzz alarm set to check the cats every hour but not one of them even so much as pawed to get out.

The morning routine wasn't the same (despite my efforts) but I know now that would be the case either way because the vet informed me later this morning that both of our older cats hadn't been too thrilled while there and evidently these personality switches flipped AT the vet BEFORE the kitten. So now I'm worried and a fair bit stressed. I am not one to just return a kitten and I want to make this work. I'm pissed at the vet for not informing me of the issues they'd had when we picked up the cats even though I explained that there was a new kitten coming home with us Only IF they were doing well. I was told they were fine, with the exception of the female fighting her IV had gotten her arm bruised up. (Which we came home and for two hours cared for her one on one over.) I'd have left the kitten until Saturday with the rescue had someone at the vet informed me that my cats were severely out of sorts already. But prior to this there was NO indication that these cats would react this way 1) after a trip to the vet and/or 2) to the kitten, so with a big thumbs up from the vet (until the call this morning from their head vet tech) we thought everyone was feeling fine just groggy.

I did also this morning between the broken routine and the call from the vet, as usual to encourage the cats to go downstairs instead of lounge upstairs most of the day, closed the bedrooms/office for an hour. :/ Everything is back open per routine but now that's concerning me.

What can I do to make this bonding go smoother?? We already bought additional toys that were matched to what we already have so that there wouldn't be fighting over that. And we've established with the kitten the handful of "this is ___'s spot" places and she's being good about respecting it. 
hi and welcome to TCS!

i'm not personally experienced with integrating cats, though i've read quite a bit about it. i may be able to make some suggestions, but i'm sure others who do have experience with integrating cats will be along shortly.

i think that for just one day together, things are going pretty well. i agree that your two resident cats having had teeth cleaning at the vet's could easily be making them a little "testy". and you're doing exactly right to give your "first kitties" attention before the new kitten -- it's very important that they know that they're loved and have a certain "higher status" because they've been in your family longer. it might help to make sure your adult pair have some one-on-one time with you for their lovings and cuddlings too.

i think it's wonderful that you bought additional toys that are matched to what you already had! i always bought two of every toy and lounger (and many other things too) for my two cats, because i love them both equally and didn't want them to feel they needed to fight for one particular item.

have you tried some scent swapping? you could take a clean towel and gently rub your male/female pair with it, then gently rub that on the kitten. you could also leave that towel laid out for the kitten to investigate, and leave a different towel with the kittens scent on it laid out for your pair to investigate. that may help them all become accustomed to each others scent, without having close enough to sniff contact this soon (which may not be comfortable for any of them quite yet).

you could do things that would help the kitties associate "good things happening" when they're all together. like giving them treats near each other, playing with toys with them near each other (or alternating the cat/kitten you're paying with the toy with, but near each other), and (when they're comfortable with it) serving them meals near each other.

it might be good to allow either or both of your adult pair the option to have a bit of time away from the kitten occasionally throughout the day. cats do very well with routines, so if you're able to have a set time(s) that they know they'll have some time to themselves they should learn when that will happen each day and that may help them relax more and become more comfortable around the kitten.

some/many adult cats are kind of afraid of kittens. in a way, it doesn't make sense since the adults are bigger and stronger than the kittens. but kittens are "on the go" many times until they nod off to sleep and they do exhibit "kitten crazies", so maybe the adults see them as strange and......well, crazy.

try to stay calm and as relaxed as possible, because cats can pick up on the stress their people are feeling and become stressed too. though there will be adjustments to your normal routine, try to develop an adjusted routine for your three furbabies so they'll become used to that quickly and that won't be a stressor for your adult pair.

let the cats and kitten set the pace in the integration. they'll let you know when they're uncomfortable making steps towards getting to know each other better. even a step backwards in an integration isn't the end of the world, you just go back to what they're comfortable with, pause there for a while and then try moving a bit forward again in the integration.

may i ask -- how long ago was it that your mom's cat crossed over the rainbow bridge (died)? it might be possible that your pair are still grieving to some extent.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
 i think it's wonderful that you bought additional toys that are matched to what you already had! i always bought two of every toy and lounger (and many other things too) for my two cats, because i love them both equally and didn't want them to feel they needed to fight for one particular item
Thank you. I learned that with my other kitties. It made sense to treat them a little like siblings.
 have you tried some scent swapping? you could take a clean towel and gently rub your male/female pair with it, then gently rub that on the kitten. you could also leave that towel laid out for the kitten to investigate, and leave a different towel with the kittens scent on it laid out for your pair to investigate. that may help them all become accustomed to each others scent, without having close enough to sniff contact this soon (which may not be comfortable for any of them quite yet).
you could do things that would help the kitties associate "good things happening" when they're all together. like giving them treats near each other, playing with toys with them near each other (or alternating the cat/kitten you're paying with the toy with, but near each other), and (when they're comfortable with it) serving them meals near each other.

it might be good to allow either or both of your adult pair the option to have a bit of time away from the kitten occasionally throughout the day. cats do very well with routines, so if you're able to have a set time(s) that they know they'll have some time to themselves they should learn when that will happen each day and that may help them relax more and become more comfortable around the kitten.
It dawned on me this morning that the kitten smelled like the rescue center and that the cats had hissed at the door opening when we picked up the kitten even though they didn't hiss at the cat carrier or any of the cats in the suites. (our cats are kinda harness trained, we can take them out without a carrier as long as a basket is available for them to sit in). And I also realized that I typically give the cats a bath after the vet and this was certainly a longer visit than usual so they were certain to smell a lot like the vet. So BATHS FOR EVERYONE!!! The kitten got her bath first because well bath time for cats isn't the happiest thing and if the kitten got the "torture" first I guessed that the older cats would get to feel smug for a little while. My PixieBob loved baths, and the Siamese/Calico tolerated it ... my mom's cat hated it but she got baths none the less. Yes I bathe my own cats. Yes I know I'm nuts. I actually make it personal one-on-one time by getting into the shower with them and holding them in my lap while bathing them. It means I have to shower cat fur off of myself afterwards and I end up with a handful or two of scratches on me even with nails clipped. 
 

Turned out the kitten REALLY needed that bath. I had to soap her three times before I could get a lather on her skin. EEWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww poor kitty!!! So got them all bathed. I pulled a bit of the scenting trick by toweling off the kitten then the last little bit toweled her with a thick facecloth. Then after the big cats were done being toweled I toweled them a little with that same facecloth - ending with the male so he smells like both his girls.

It may have worked, the female and the kitten were in the office together chilling. And now the older cats are back in their usual spots.... dun dun DUN!!! Dare I hope the baths worked?!
 may i ask -- how long ago was it that your mom's cat crossed over the rainbow bridge (died)? it might be possible that your pair are still grieving to some extent.
She passed around valentines, so it's possible.

Thank you for the response. It helps to hear others' experiences as well. :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
*sigh* Meal time still posing a problem.
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,590
Purraise
5,295
Location
...with the cats...
 
Thank you. I learned that with my other kitties. It made sense to treat them a little like siblings.

It dawned on me this morning that the kitten smelled like the rescue center and that the cats had hissed at the door opening when we picked up the kitten even though they didn't hiss at the cat carrier or any of the cats in the suites. (our cats are kinda harness trained, we can take them out without a carrier as long as a basket is available for them to sit in). And I also realized that I typically give the cats a bath after the vet and this was certainly a longer visit than usual so they were certain to smell a lot like the vet. So BATHS FOR EVERYONE!!! The kitten got her bath first because well bath time for cats isn't the happiest thing and if the kitten got the "torture" first I guessed that the older cats would get to feel smug for a little while. My PixieBob loved baths, and the Siamese/Calico tolerated it ... my mom's cat hated it but she got baths none the less. Yes I bathe my own cats. Yes I know I'm nuts. I actually make it personal one-on-one time by getting into the shower with them and holding them in my lap while bathing them. It means I have to shower cat fur off of myself afterwards and I end up with a handful or two of scratches on me even with nails clipped. 
 

Turned out the kitten REALLY needed that bath. I had to soap her three times before I could get a lather on her skin. EEWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww poor kitty!!! So got them all bathed. I pulled a bit of the scenting trick by toweling off the kitten then the last little bit toweled her with a thick facecloth. Then after the big cats were done being toweled I toweled them a little with that same facecloth - ending with the male so he smells like both his girls.

It may have worked, the female and the kitten were in the office together chilling. And now the older cats are back in their usual spots.... dun dun DUN!!! Dare I hope the baths worked?!

She passed around valentines, so it's possible.

Thank you for the response. It helps to hear others' experiences as well. :)
if you had good or very good results with scent swapping, you might want to continue doing that daily (not the bathing, but the scent swapping with a towel) and see if that helps cats/kitten continue to do better around each other.

it's been a very short number of days since your pair and the kitten met, and integrations can normally take weeks or many months even. i understand it's hard on us during integrations, but it'll just take the amount of time that all the kitties need to become comfortable around each other. i really do think that your pair and the kitten are doing very well with each other for such a short time that they've been together. patience and understanding for the kitties from you is very important. and if you get frustrated, just walk away for a bit (separating them if necessary) and take some time to yourself to regroup. i do this sometimes with my snick, who is a very picky eater and has medical issues. and when i've regrouped and come back to snick with her food, i'm more calm and relaxed again and can coax her to eat more.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
can you go into more detail about what's going on with the kitties at meal times?
The big cats aren't dealing so well with cavalier kitten during meal time. They normally share, literally eating half the food from their bowls then swapping. They eat the same food so urns just a ritual. The kitten will eat it if any bowl out and the older cats refuse to touch the food after her, and (Peachu) the female is being particularly pissy about it.

This morning the routine was almost normal. My daughter seems extra tired and the big cats seem to need some time. So I've brought my daughter and the kitten into the bedroom for naps. Hopefully the big cats will take the opportunity to clear out their food bowls. The girls were playing a bit so that's good. She's (Icing) even getting the male (Simba) to play, which is good.
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,590
Purraise
5,295
Location
...with the cats...
it sounds like it's going quite well so far. there hasn't been any fur flying or bleeding caused by any of them fighting? if not, then i think it's just going to take time for all kitties to get used to each other and adjust to having each other as housemates and have meal times together.

that's a big step forward, peachu and simba playing with icing a little! and so soon too!
The big cats aren't dealing so well with cavalier kitten during meal time. They normally share, literally eating half the food from their bowls then swapping. They eat the same food so urns just a ritual. The kitten will eat it if any bowl out and the older cats refuse to touch the food after her, and (Peachu) the female is being particularly pissy about it.

This morning the routine was almost normal. My daughter seems extra tired and the big cats seem to need some time. So I've brought my daughter and the kitten into the bedroom for naps. Hopefully the big cats will take the opportunity to clear out their food bowls. The girls were playing a bit so that's good. She's (Icing) even getting the male (Simba) to play, which is good.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
it sounds like it's going quite well so far. there hasn't been any fur flying or bleeding caused by any of them fighting? if not, then i think it's just going to take time for all kitties to get used to each other and adjust to having each other as housemates and have meal times together.

that's a big step forward, peachu and simba playing with icing a little! and so soon too!
No fur tufts or even that kind of fighting to result in bleeding. Just a lot of growling, some hissing, some lapping, lots of walking away and hiding. Even the play is mostly light thwapping and chasing.

I guess it's that the aggression between my first two indoor cats (SweetCakes & Frosting) was much more explosive. Sweets stood her ground with Frosting and they ended up great buds with a mama cat/baby cat kind of dynamic. All the passive aggression when there's two cats with such a great sibling type relationship is worrying me. And I don't want anyone to get sick our getting a personality change because they're being pissy and passive aggressive.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
I apologize for the typos. The phone's auto correct is lame.
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,590
Purraise
5,295
Location
...with the cats...
This is Simba and Peachu

This is Icing
they're all three beautiful furbabies!

i've had good results using feliway plug-in diffusers. my cats were getting stressed from the neighbor noise in the last apartment we lived in, and the feliway really helped reduce their stress. we've since moved into a house, and i still keep feliway diffusers running. my experience with it is that it helped my cats, but i've read some reviews that said it wasn't helpful for other cats. i know that feliway is not an instant fix, it can take up to 60 days to start to see positive results. i started to see results in about a week. feliway also isn't inexpensive. it might be something to look into for your furbabies, or something to keep in mind as a possible for down the line.

stress can cause illness in cats. i would keep an eye on all three to make sure there aren't any symptoms like vomiting, diarrhea, or straining in the litter box. of course if you see lethargy or any other unusual symptom too. if you see any of those or other symptoms, a vet check or at least a call to your vet is in order. i wouldn't worry until you see a symptom, just keep an eye out for symptoms. no need to worry until there's something to worry about -- and i'm saying that as a worrier by nature.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
 
they're all three beautiful furbabies
Thanks. We've been very fortunate with all our pets being cuties even my dad's raggedy Schnauzer was cute in her way.
 i've had good results using feliway plug-in diffusers. my cats were getting stressed from the neighbor noise in the last apartment we lived in, and the feliway really helped reduce their stress. we've since moved into a house, and i still keep feliway diffusers running. my experience with it is that it helped my cats, but i've read some reviews that said it wasn't helpful for other cats. i know that feliway is not an instant fix, it can take up to 60 days to start to see positive results. i started to see results in about a week. feliway also isn't inexpensive. it might be something to look into for your furbabies, or something to keep in mind as a possible for down the line.
stress can cause illness in cats. i would keep an eye on all three to make sure there aren't any symptoms like vomiting, diarrhea, or straining in the litter box. of course if you see lethargy or any other unusual symptom too. if you see any of those or other symptoms, a vet check or at least a call to your vet is in order. i wouldn't worry until you see a symptom, just keep an eye out for symptoms. no need to worry until there's something to worry about -- and i'm saying that as a worrier by nature.
lol Yeah, the worry wort thing didn't kick in until the whole having a kid happened, and soooo many things went wrong in so short a time. And then the spiral fast decline of the other cats reinforced it. Forums like this help a lot to reassure the positive, and steal up nerves lol

I realized the kitten won't be into catnip just yet so I gave some specifically to Peachu. We'll see how that goes.

The whole take the kitten up for nap time letting the big cats eat and what not didn't work so well .... the big cats instead ended up in the bedroom too and sleeping under the bed. :/ So first thing that happens when we get downstairs is that the kitten goes for the two mostly full food bowls ... as do the big cats. No hissing just pissy resignation and refusing to eat after her. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

spiritpixie

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
14
Purraise
1
Location
So Cal
OMG THEY'RE SHARING BOWLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok mama stress over.... So new suggestion, bathe the cats so they all smell the same..... mwwaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhh
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,590
Purraise
5,295
Location
...with the cats...
 
OMG THEY'RE SHARING BOWLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok mama stress over.... So new suggestion, bathe the cats so they all smell the same..... mwwaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhh
that's wonderful!!! excellent progress for such a short time.
 

betsygee

Just what part of meow don't you understand.
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
28,553
Purraise
17,864
Location
Central Coast CA, USA
Oh, that is precious!  I'm so glad to see this.  I know what it's like to have cats who don't get along and there's nothing better than to see something like this.  
 

alyssam

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
843
Purraise
107
Location
Georgia
Yay! Progress! I love the names and they are adorable [emoji]9786[/emoji]
 
Top